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Starter dilema...

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Old 02-26-2006, 11:48 PM
  #1  
Lowlevlflyer
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Default Starter dilema...

I've got a Goldberg Pitts Model 12 Monster bipe with an OS 1.60FX. The starter I had when I bought this plane was a Hangar 9 12v with a Powercore battery pack. This starter, fully charged, will crank the engine maybe twice. So, I bought a Hobbico Torquemaster 180, thinking it would be stronger. I'm powering it off my field battery (12v gel) through the power panel, and it STILL wont crank it. My question is, can I cure this problem by going to a garden tractor type battery, or am I just going to have to bite the bullet and buy a Sullivan Dynatron or something along that line? Before anyone says "why not just flip start it", nope, dont want to get my fingers in line with that carbon fiber prop.
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Old 02-27-2006, 03:06 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

ORIGINAL: Lowlevlflyer

I've got a Goldberg Pitts Model 12 Monster bipe with an OS 1.60FX. The starter I had when I bought this plane was a Hangar 9 12v with a Powercore battery pack. This starter, fully charged, will crank the engine maybe twice. So, I bought a Hobbico Torquemaster 180, thinking it would be stronger. I'm powering it off my field battery (12v gel) through the power panel, and it STILL wont crank it. My question is, can I cure this problem by going to a garden tractor type battery, or am I just going to have to bite the bullet and buy a Sullivan Dynatron or something along that line? Before anyone says "why not just flip start it", nope, dont want to get my fingers in line with that carbon fiber prop.
Your Hanger 9 180 starter will start the engine, you don't need the Dynatron.. Do you have the 4.5 amp field battery or the 7 amp battery ? I have the Tower 7 amp battery (about 3 - 4 years old ) and it starts my OS 160 with no problems.
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Old 02-27-2006, 08:00 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

Yup, mine is the 4.5 amp battery.
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:12 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

You don't need a Dynatron to start a 160FX. My Pacific Aero 3:1 geared starter will start my 160FX with ease:



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Old 02-27-2006, 11:08 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

The best starter in the world (and cheapest) for a 160fx is a chicken stick. Once it is primed, one flip clockwise is all it needs. Been flip starting mine for 3 years, easy as pie.
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Old 02-27-2006, 11:54 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

Those gel cell batteries that people use for starters are the worst. What you need is more voltage. Richard L's setup is the best.
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Old 02-27-2006, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

You do not necessarily need more voltage, you need more capacity. If you use a lawn mower battery (or car battery) with heavy duty cables any of the above starters will do the job. Your problem in insufficient amperes and/or to small a gage or to long leads.
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Old 02-27-2006, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

I have 14.4 volts going to my starter shown in the pictures above, and it seems to be doing a great job. I'm also thinking about swappping out my 3300 mAh battery packs for either 4000 mAh or 4200 mAh battery packs for more capacity.
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

Richard: So how long can your 3300 last on your battery you have now?
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Old 02-27-2006, 03:01 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

It depends on the size of the engine being started. My 3300's typically last for at least five months if I'm just starting my YS 63 every weekend. If I'm starting my YS 110's, then the 3300's don't seem to last that long, perhaps only around three months. However, those battery packs are NiMH, so I tend to recharge them every two months.
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Old 02-27-2006, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

My old sullivan heavy duty starts my 1.60 on a garden tractor battery (235 CCA). I only need my dynatron for my MOKI 2.1 and MDS 2.18. Like Rodney said, you need capacity (amps) to be able to start all weekend. The nice thing about the dynatron, however, is that you can set up starter packs like Richard L has and go all the way up to 24 volts and start G-62's and stuff like that, if you can get a good bite on the spinner, usually using the blue cone for larger warbird spinners.

The smaller geared starters like Rodney has are really versatile, more portable than my GTB, but do end up costing a little more, but after all it is a hobby, so spend that money!!!!
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Old 02-27-2006, 04:01 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

Outstanding guys, thanks for the info. I'm going to try a larger battery and see what that does. As far as the leads go, both starters have the factory coiled cord that came attached to them. Is this sufficient, or do I need to go larger? If so, what do you recommend as a replacement?
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Old 02-28-2006, 12:55 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

anyone?
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Old 02-28-2006, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

This: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXKRS1&P=7 is what you need. I have this in addition to a Kavan starter and between the two I've got plenty of starting power. The Kavan is a little pricey when you add the battery case & battery but- at least to me- is well worth it. Dragging cables and a heavy battery isn't my idea of fun.
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:52 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

I also have the Kavan starter. It's a decent starter. However, the Pacific Aero starter shown earlier spins faster and has much higher torque while being roughly the same physical size. Plus, it lasts much longer on a single charge.
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:57 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

Isnt that the same starter as the PowerTork that Central Hobbies sells? Big difference in price, there.
ORIGINAL: SamD

This: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXKRS1&P=7 is what you need. I have this in addition to a Kavan starter and between the two I've got plenty of starting power. The Kavan is a little pricey when you add the battery case & battery but- at least to me- is well worth it. Dragging cables and a heavy battery isn't my idea of fun.
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Old 02-28-2006, 02:31 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

I believe it is- with one exception: it doesn't come with batteries as the CH starter does. I already had some packs, though, so the Tower deal was better for me. The Kavan is 12 volts while the Pac Aero is 14.4 so I'm sure it does spin faster; no idea about the gearing, either. Still, the Kavan looks a bit more compact which is nice; mine seems to have good capacity and doesn't seem to need excessive charging. That of course is dependent on the mah rating of the pack, quality of pack and how much it's being used.

Regardless, I love my cordless starters and would have a hard time returning to Sullivans with their stiff cords and heavy batteries.
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Old 02-28-2006, 07:00 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

Solved the problem today... took the Torquemaster 180 back and bought a Kavan gear reduction starter and a garden tractor battery. Spins the 1.60 effortlessly. I will eventually build the 14.4v battery pack setup to use, but for now, this will work fine. Thanks for all the info, guys!
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Old 02-28-2006, 08:27 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...


ORIGINAL: SamD

The Kavan is 12 volts while the Pac Aero is 14.4 so I'm sure it does spin faster; no idea about the gearing, either. Still, the Kavan looks a bit more compact which is nice
The Pac Aero has 3:1 gearing while the Kavan has 2:1 gearing. The body of the Pac Aero starter is actually smaller than that of the Kavan. Only the battery packs are larger. I will try to find a picture showing both side by side.
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Old 03-01-2006, 08:57 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

The Kavan is rated for 14.4v also, according to the specs on the box. Also, according the the specs on the box and on the Kavan website, the gear ratio on their starter is 5:1, not 2:1.
ORIGINAL: SamD

I believe it is- with one exception: it doesn't come with batteries as the CH starter does. I already had some packs, though, so the Tower deal was better for me. The Kavan is 12 volts while the Pac Aero is 14.4 so I'm sure it does spin faster; no idea about the gearing, either. Still, the Kavan looks a bit more compact which is nice; mine seems to have good capacity and doesn't seem to need excessive charging. That of course is dependent on the mah rating of the pack, quality of pack and how much it's being used.

Regardless, I love my cordless starters and would have a hard time returning to Sullivans with their stiff cords and heavy batteries.
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Old 03-01-2006, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

5:1, eh? Pretty good reduction. My comment about the 12 volts was related the battery case that is available for the starter: it will only hold 10 sub-c batteries so you're stuck with 12 volts unless some other battery arrangement is utilized. Heck, it's a DC motor, you could throw 24 volts at it and would still work- the longevity might be compromised but it would still spin!

Refrain: I love my cordless starters, I love my cordless starters...
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Old 03-01-2006, 03:06 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...


ORIGINAL: Lowlevlflyer

Also, according the the specs on the box and on the Kavan website, the gear ratio on their starter is 5:1, not 2:1.
5:1 eh? No wonder it spins so slow.
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

Slow?? 2,400 to 2,800 RPM are the specs, depending on what 12v source you have it connected to, and 3,400 RPM on 14.4v. That doesnt seem slow to me... what speed does a regular direct drive 12v starter spin at? The Kavan seems to me like it spins faster than either of my other two starters do.
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Old 03-03-2006, 12:04 AM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...


ORIGINAL: bhole74

The best starter in the world (and cheapest) for a 160fx is a chicken stick. Once it is primed, one flip clockwise is all it needs. Been flip starting mine for 3 years, easy as pie.

Yes, the O.S. 160 starts incredibly easy. Once primed, and as long as the low end is tuned good, it should start very easily. I just grab the spinner with my fingers, give it one quick flick backwards from against the back side of the compression stroke. It bounces off the forward side of the compression stroke and starts forward just that easy. My fingers are never in the prop plane doing this and I get a quicker flick from being closer to the center. As long as everything is working right and tuned right, it should start that easy. This is handy for when your engine stops on the runway. I just keep a glow driver on me just for that situation.
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Old 03-03-2006, 02:11 PM
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Default RE: Starter dilema...

Yeah, mine starts VERY easily, and will hand start with usually just a couple of backward flips, but I just prefer not to.
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