Oryx

LuftwaffeOberst, I think you missed my point. Read my last paragraph, and in particular: "...besides, I would feel absolutely no satisfaction flying one as it would be like flying someone else's aeroplane. The whole joy in scale modeling for me, personally, is to build a scale miniature of the real thing and then to see that work culminate in something that looks almost like the real thing in the air..."

That is why I don't buy ARFs - because there is no satisfaction in it for me. You also wrote: "If I took any of those planes to a show... people of all ages and backgrounds would drool!" You see, I can't care less about how other people feel about the models I bring to the field - it is for my own personal satisfaction that I build them.

Again, this is how I personally feel about the scale part of the hobby. I also think that many people who buy scale ARFs enjoy the idea of owning and flying something that looks like a miniature of the real thing, regardless of the origins, and that is enough for them. I also like it, but I have a very important additional criteria - I want to feel like it is my creation as I get personal satisfaction out of that. I get a similar satisfaction out of building plastic model kits, but there I don't get to fly my creation...

Right in the beginning I stated that no-one needs any special excuse to prefer ARFs - if you don't like building then you don't like building. I don't look down on anyone who prefers ARFs. What I stated in this thread is why I "personally" prefer building and even designing my own models.

I also stated a further concern that I have, namely that I think some people enter the hobby knowing only ARFs and think for whatever reason that they will never be able to build anything themselves even though they would like to do so. That is why I also made the additional comments about time, space and tools. I don't think those things should keep someone from having a go at a kit or plan if he thinks he might enjoy it.

Stickbuilder

But, since you would not be the Builder of the Model, you would have to enter in open, or fun scale.

Bill, AMa 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Jim_McIntyre

Ok, Thanks.... now how do I change my vote from kit to scratch? That graph at the top of the page no longer matches the documentation.

LuftwaffeOberst

I know, and I have no problems with that. Where I go it's usually vintage, and the judging classes are just a tad different. I feel the same pride that you kit or scratch builders feel. Because when I build a ARF, I don't just leave it stock... I add a lot of details, a little wear and tear and exhaust stains etc.

If there's a certain feature the plane was missing, I add it. Like for instance a radio mast, or a fake cable, or scratch build a cockpit to scale, you guys know what I mean. Even if I disagreed with you guys all the way, I would still look forward to flying with you all, if I knew we were all going to the same event. I'm one of those who can put childish arguments aside, just to enjoy a day of good weathered flying.

They're are ARF's out there that I can't stand, but I would never go up to tht person and say, " I built your kit and it sucks," that could get my nose broke. [:-] To me if it flys and looks good, that's all that matters and I encourage, not disappoint. I really never saw a person hate his plane... even if it was a Electric Wing Dragon or a Zaggy 3 channel someone had brought to the field. I do hate them Zaggy's, you can't kill em.


Peter Dowling aka Luftwaffe Oberst
AMA District II # 856404
Aero Modelers Club
Pulaski, NY

Stickbuilder

Peter,
I hate to get into a semantics thing here, but you don't build an ARF, you just assemble/modify it. That's why you can't enter a higher category in a scale contest. You are not the builder of the model. I too would enjoy flying with you. I don't hate guys who fly ARF's, I just wish that I was a little better at trying to nonvince you to try building scale for yourself, be it Kits, or Scratch, or from plans. I still think that you are selling yourself short.

Before you get into the I don't have time, I'm a full scale pilot, business owner, father, etc, remember, I too am all of these, and I'm probably a few years older than are you, and I work at least 70 hours per week, and have 5 children (adults) and 8 Grandkids. I also own and fly my own full scale plane. I don't have time does not cut it with me. You find time to do what you wish to do.

Regards,

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Jim_McIntyre

Yeah, I don't buy that one either, I have 2 grade school kids (with many extracurricular activities like piano) and my wife works full time. Although I work an 8-4 type job, I seldom leave work before 6() and often get called in to work. Even with my second hobby (music) I manage to build at a rate of about one kit (depending on complexity) a year. No time for Tv or golf though....

agexpert

My Feedback: (1)

I have a slightly different take on this subject and since I have the day-off and I already flew today..why not.

With a 2yr old and another baby on the way, an ARF takes me as long to build as a kit does for a retired person to build.

I think this hobby is SEVERAL hobbies in one large category. Two of the hobbies in the 'aero-modeling' category are building and flying...we all do both. That being said, some of us LOVE to build, while others LOVE to fly. I prefer flying, personally. I consider a model airplane to be analogous to a gallon of milk. I will use it till it expires or is gone.

Other people have a true appreciation for the modeling aspect of this hobby. While I truly appreciate the efforts of others who build museum-quality scale models, I would be AFRAID to fly such a creation due to an acute case of 'PUCKER FACTOR'.

To me, building and repairing is a necessary evil. I enjoy it while I am doing it, I enjoy the results, but I NEVER look forward to it. Building, to me, is nothing more than a means to an end. I don't fly warbirds, although I do appreciate the models other have shown me.

I like WAY too much power and 3D aerobatics, while others prefer scale building and scale flying.

The best part is....THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM FOR ALL OF US. One day I may completely change my attitudes and tastes and I will still be able to remain in this great hobby.

Enjoy it!!

scratchonly

I have done so several times, I just enjoy a plane that looks like a plane. I have also built scale planes from magazine photos. I also think there are some fine arfs, especially aerobatic ones.

Jim_McIntyre

It's the journey, not the destination. I often measure my scale builds in years of elapsed time, but I have many flyable aircraft and have long since passed the signal to noise ration where crashes outpace builds (knock on wood).

I enjoy flying as much as the next chap, probably more than most as I have more sweat equity invested... and free time does not always align with flyable conditions.

Oh ... and CONGRATULATIONS on your latest 1:1 scale under construction.

agexpert

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks!! That makes two daughters and with my office in one bedroom, we are now officially out of them. Looks like I need to go get something snipped, tied, cauterized, realigned or cut-off.

ARF = Adoption.

Kit = God's workbench.

My 2yr old is already in love with airplanes and LOVES to watch daddy fly...but only for like 30 seconds at a time. The rest is spent hunting weeds and trying to get my attention while I hover or do something else requiring concentration....she's perfect, of course.

Jim_McIntyre

It's sad that I can't post pictures of my kids at the flying field, I have some priceless pics of memories I cherish. Mine are groing up at flying fields and love every minute of it, especially camping at the big weekend events.

Sounds like I'm just a few years ahead of you on that journey... enjoy!

Jim Messer

My Feedback: (2)

I have nothing against ARF's, but you couldn't give me one. I design and scratch build all my models, and I do not build from kits. Rather, I used to produce kits for others to build.

There is so much satisfaction to designing and building your own model, I think at least once in everyone's life, they should try it. Time! Today I have lots of time, as I have been retired now for 21 years, but there was a time when I worked full time as an engineer, had a family of nine kids, built my own home, and still found time to stay active in modeling. I even ran a world-wide model business out of my home, so don't tell me you don't have time to build. The time is there if you choose to use it.

I will say this in defense of ARF's. About half of the modelers in our club now fly ARF's, and it keeps them in the club. Otherwise, they would just drop out, so we welcome ARF's at our field with open arms. We want and need the modeler regardless of what he flies. I think all clubs are in that same position.

eagledancer

i prefer kits or scratch building, i have had a few arfs, i tried them i found out most of them are very poorly put together. wrong glues, or lack of it. yes you can modify them to make them look much better but the quality remains the same. i have several planes that are 16+ years old and still flying!! i seriously doubt arfs will make that age! most i have seen will last 1 or 2 flying seasons, and if dumb thumbs gets in the way i dont think they will be repaired. but the planes i have put together takes quite a bit of abuse from hard landings or dumb thumb and are quite easy to repair. i have yet to have a plane damaged to the point that it is unrepairable.
yes i do have 1 arf in my hanger right now, a nitro models p-38, as far as i am concerned it is nothing more then a twin trainer for me yep getting ready to build that ziroli p-38, and yep i have had lots of repair work to do to that arf everything from reinstalling the landing gear blocks (they did not even survive the first taxi tests) made molds for the boom covers so i can make them out of fiberglass instead of that flimsy plastic(they only lasted 5 flights before cracking to the point i could not screw them down any more)
yep i will manly stick to building my own, when i am flying with others i really dont want to hope that arf wont come apart and hurt someone.
going to a flyin, nope i wont bring any arfs, too many people around to trust them

rajul

My Feedback: (58)

I like both kits and ARF, just depends on my mood My ratio of kits to ARF is about 1:3

mobflier

Boy I guess I sure hit a nerve with some. In my opinon, anyone can build an ARF. I have some myself that fly good and look good. But I also have some kits I built and the satisfaction that I have gotten with building them cannot be explained. When I build an ARF its boring. Glue the wing, Put on the Stabs, do the fin, glue the hinges, mount the engine, put in the radio eqipment. ---BORING--- Each kit is different and actually makes you use your brain! I have yet to build from scratch. I ordered plans from AMA for the Curtis CW-1 which was in the last issue of their magazine. I can't wait to get them!! Flying is great, but the building satisfaction, fellowship with others, seeing what others have built, and watching them fly, all this rolled together is what this hobbie is all about! (In my humble opinion) Thanks for all the input on this subject.
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