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View Poll Results: A poll
Kit
64.94%
ARF
27.27%
Scratch Build
7.79%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

ARF or Kit?

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Old 10-05-2006, 10:21 AM
  #1  
mobflier
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Default ARF or Kit?

What do you like better, ARF's or Kits? I have done several ARF's, but find more enjoyment in a kit. I like the speed of an ARF, but they do not have alot of personality.
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Old 10-05-2006, 02:50 PM
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

I like both, and not necessarily one more than the other, so I did not vote.

ARFs
If I want something soon
If I want to save money
If what I want is only available as ARF

Kits
If I want to take my time
If not available as ARF
If I'm in a "building" mood

I have noticed that crashing an ARF bothers me less than crashing a kit built model. The only attachment to the ARF is the money. A kit built has the money plus the time, so it hurts more when it breaks.
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Old 10-06-2006, 04:12 AM
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

ORIGINAL: carrellh

I like both, and not necessarily one more than the other, so I did not vote.

ARFs
If I want something soon
If I want to save money
If what I want is only available as ARF

Kits
If I want to take my time
If not available as ARF
If I'm in a "building" mood

I have noticed that crashing an ARF bothers me less than crashing a kit built model. The only attachment to the ARF is the money. A kit built has the money plus the time, so it hurts more when it breaks.
I feel the same way, I don't have much more time than a kit a year and some of the planes I like don't come in kits and some not in ARF but I do fovor the kit a little more. There is no better feeling than seeing something you put together take to the air and fly well.

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Old 10-06-2006, 09:44 AM
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

ORIGINAL: carrellh
I have noticed that crashing an ARF bothers me less than crashing a kit built model. The only attachment to the ARF is the money. A kit built has the money plus the time, so it hurts more when it breaks.
And the same goes for the thrll factor ... more invested, more thrill.

If you want something done right, do it yourself ... why no options for plan build or scratch?
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:21 PM
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

I agree, if you want TOTAL satisfaction scratch build from your own plan drawn from 3-views and watch it FLY!!!
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

another option would be both arf and kit build or all of the above.
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Old 10-06-2006, 04:29 PM
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

well maybe it depends on the region or other factors but what I mostly ever see at the flying field is ARF's not kits.......
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Old 10-06-2006, 04:56 PM
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ORIGINAL: scratchonly

I agree, if you want TOTAL satisfaction scratch build from your own plan drawn from 3-views and watch it FLY!!!
Heck, if you want to go to the extreme, why use a three view? Come up with something completely different all on your own.
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:07 PM
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

I generally build scale kits............stuff like a T28 or Ercoupe.

I generally buy ARF aerobats...........they are more likely to get destroyed. However, I do build some aerobats.........I think mine fly better than ARFs.

Short answer.........BOTH
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Old 10-06-2006, 11:40 PM
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

Ahem,

Naaah, I can't do it...This is too easy...Nope, you can't troll me... I ain't goin for it. [8D] [X(]

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Old 10-07-2006, 08:52 AM
  #11  
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Build it yourself (scratch) for usually under 10-15 bucks.

http://www.spadtothebone.com/freeplans.htm


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Old 10-07-2006, 10:45 AM
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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Ahem,

Naaah, I can't do it...This is too easy...Nope, you can't troll me... I ain't goin for it. [8D] [X(]

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Me trolling? No, not really. Just making the point that there are extremes to be enjoyed in this hobby.

I've built kits, assembled ARFs, built from plans, designed scale models using three views, and designed my own planes. In all of these experiences I've had varying degrees of success. I find building, whether from my own design or from a packaged kit to be most enjoyable.

I've been disappointed with every ARF I've ever seen. That's not to say that ARFs are bad, and of course, some are much better than others. It's just that I've never seen an ARF that I would consider to be up to my standards if I had built it from scratch. Needless to say, my way of doing things is the correct way of doing things
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Old 10-08-2006, 12:07 PM
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

I'm all ARF, I don't have the time or all the workshop equipment, nor do I have the space. Plus ARF's fit my budget a Little more. The only thing bad about ARF's is you get what you pay for. Nitroplanes is a good example... and comparing that to a Great Planes or Hanger 9, or Graupner? BIG QUALITY DIFFERENCE. I won't be surprised to see more ARF's in the future that are more to scale than some of these kits that are out there. Meaning, some of the companies that make ARF's are slowly improving not only quality, but scale details as well. TMP, JMO.


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Old 10-08-2006, 06:08 PM
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

Jim,
Sorry I didn't include the scratch build, I updated it for you. I find people that scratch build to be very peticular and interesting.
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Old 10-08-2006, 06:34 PM
  #15  
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ORIGINAL: carrellh

I like both, and not necessarily one more than the other, so I did not vote.

ARFs
If I want something soon
If I want to save money
If what I want is only available as ARF

Kits
If I want to take my time
If not available as ARF
If I'm in a "building" mood

I have noticed that crashing an ARF bothers me less than crashing a kit built model. The only attachment to the ARF is the money. A kit built has the money plus the time, so it hurts more when it breaks.
Me too.

I like building from kits, but don't always have the time or motivation to do it. I build about 2 kits a year.

ARFs are easy and quick, but not something to be proud of at the field. ARFs are pure functionality. Assemble it and go fly. Thats all. No bragging pictures. No crowd gathered around and talking about it for 30 minutes. Just slap it together and go fly.

Like pilotfighter said--aerobatic planes are more likely to be destroyed, so I usually buy them in ARFs.

Kits are special things I can't find anywhere else or maybe something I just LOVE and want to build it myself. Kits are a labor of love. You can't build a kit as cheaply as you can buy an ARF, but thats not the point. It's the smell of CA and the feel of a sanding block in your hand. It's looking down the LE of a wing to get just the right taper on it and touching it ever so lightly with the block for that last pass. Kits are sanding those sheeting seams down just perfectly, so that you don't ned any filler. Cutting the sticks for the stab with my little razor saw and sanding every joint for a perfect fit. Kits take time. Kits take me away from the stress of life. Kits are my drug. My escape. My freedom and my passion. Kits have brought a tear to my eye on that maiden flight. Crashing a kit can bring a tear to my eye. Not because I crashed and broke my toy, but because she is broken now. A bird who cannot fly. An eagle that cannot soar. [sm=cry_smile.gif] Kits are your best girl. The one you spend a little extra time on at the end of the day and it's tme to wipe her down and clean the oil off. You inspect all the seams and make sure none of them are pealing. Some of them hold so much emotion for me that I can only bring myself to fly them once or twice a year. Kits are beauty. They are grace. Kits are all that is wonderful in this crazy hobby that we blow so much money on every year. I love my kit built planes.
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Old 10-08-2006, 08:32 PM
  #16  
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ORIGINAL: mobflier

Jim,
Sorry I didn't include the scratch build, I updated it for you. I find people that scratch build to be very peticular and interesting.
I wish that this had been an option when I voted. My next one will be a WACO YMF, built (loosely) from PICA 1/5th plans modified for 1/4th scale. Obviously the stock sizes won't be blown exactly by that percentage, but ....Well, I hope that you get the idea.

I tried one ARF, and it did not pass muster, so I sold it complete with engine and radio (ready to fly) after one set of trim flights. I doubt that I will ever own another one. If I don't build it, I don't want it. I can't help but wonder where this hobby will be when we olde phartes are gone. I'm pretty sure that the BOM rule will be completely gone from scale contests, and that the ARFers will rule in that segment as well. It's a pity. Personally, I think that most of you guys that only do the ARF's are selling yourselves short. I think that most, if not all of you are capable of more than you think.

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Old 10-09-2006, 11:41 AM
  #17  
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

Personally, I think that most of you guys that only do the ARF's are selling yourselves short. I think that most, if not all of you are capable of more than you think
Great point and so true.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:27 PM
  #18  
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

Absolutely amazing how often this discussion comes up!
ARF if you have too.
Build if you can.
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Old 10-09-2006, 04:34 PM
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ORIGINAL: fokker20planes

Absolutely amazing how often this discussion comes up!
ARF if you have too.
Build if you can.

Build I don't want too.
ARF because I can.

It seems that many heads turn on some of these ARF Warbirds, just as much as the full kits do when done properly.


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Old 10-09-2006, 09:24 PM
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ORIGINAL: LuftwaffeOberst


It seems that many heads turn on some of these ARF Warbirds, just as much as the full kits do when done properly.


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The only heads that ARF's turn are the uneducated, or uninitiated. Those who don't know drool. Those who do know Puke.

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Old 10-10-2006, 12:22 AM
  #21  
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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


ORIGINAL: LuftwaffeOberst


It seems that many heads turn on some of these ARF Warbirds, just as much as the full kits do when done properly.


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The only heads that ARF's turn are the uneducated, or uninitiated. Those who don't know drool. Those who do know Puke.

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That is your opinion. I only tell what I've seen at the shows, I never seen anyone put down any ARF planes anywhere except in some R/C Forums like this one. I have seen ARF Warbirds done up that looked way better in scale and in detail than some of these kits and or scratch built models at some of these shows in NY.

If you like to build kits? Good for you. I give credit to the nicest planes, not just the kit or scratch built ones. Kits are great if you are retired, disabled or have all the time in the world. Some of us work 48 hours and 6 days a week, have families to support, one or two car payments and rent to pay etc.

So I thank all the companies who are turning to the ARF and Plug-N-Play industry. The more ARF's that are on the market, the more I see people getting employed to make these nice planes... which intern makes the economy stronger.

The Out Sourcing of jobs is another topic though. It would be good to see some American ARF's out there on the market. JMO Being proud of building and owning a Scratch or Kit plane is one thing. To put another persons ARF down or say that the person can't love his or her ARF plane just as much stinks of false pride.

The R/C Clubs isn't for the rich anymore, thanks to Electric, RTF, ARF, ARC aircraft now available on the market. Why is scratch building and kit making slowly becoming a dying breed? Well I believe many people agree to what I just wrote. And I believe I just answered that question. I have a 16 year old O.S.40 Goldberg Eagle that was a kit so I can talk.

I personally don't love it more or put it above my H9 J-3 Cub or any other plane I have. If I wreck it, it hurts just as bad and the loss would be the same.

Do you all know what EGO is? " Eliminating Good Optimism. " Sometimes I see that here and it's sad. Again JMO.

If you love what you fly... that's all that matters.


Enough said.



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Old 10-10-2006, 01:26 AM
  #22  
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

That is your opinion. I only tell what I've seen at the shows, I never seen anyone put down any ARF planes anywhere except in some R/C Forums like this one. I have seen ARF Warbirds done up that looked way better in scale and in detail than some of these kits and or scratch built models at some of these shows in NY.

If you like to build kits? Good for you. I give credit to the nicest planes, not just the kit or scratch built ones. Kits are great if you are retired, disabled or have all the time in the world. Some of us work 48 hours and 6 days a week, have families to support, one or two car payments and rent to pay etc.

So I thank all the companies who are turning to the ARF and Plug-N-Play industry. The more ARF's that are on the market, the more I see people getting employed to make these nice planes... which intern makes the economy stronger.

The Out Sourcing of jobs is another topic though. It would be good to see some American ARF's out there on the market. JMO Being proud of building and owning a Scratch or Kit plane is one thing. To put another persons ARF down or say that the person can't love his or her ARF plane just as much stinks of false pride.

The R/C Clubs isn't for the rich anymore, thanks to Electric, RTF, ARF, ARC aircraft now available on the market. Why is scratch building and kit making slowly becoming a dying breed? Well I believe many people agree to what I just wrote. And I believe I just answered that question. I have a 16 year old O.S.40 Goldberg Eagle that was a kit so I can talk.

I personally don't love it more or put it above my H9 J-3 Cub or any other plane I have. If I wreck it, it hurts just as bad and the loss would be the same.

Do you all know what EGO is? " Eliminating Good Optimism. " Sometimes I see that here and it's sad. Again JMO.

If you love what you fly... that's all that matters.


Enough said.
I could not agree with you more.

Cheers
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:26 AM
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Default RE: ARF or Kit?

I think there is a place for all interests in this hobby, and I don't see why anyone should try to convince anyone else of which is better. If this hobby is only about the flying for you, why not stick with ARFs? I don't think you need to make up a bunch of excuses for doing so - some people just don't like to build.

As for myself, I have been in this hobby since my early teens (around 1984 or so). In that time, I have built four kits: two trainers, one sports aerobatic model and a Marutaka P-51D. All my other models have been either scratch built (own design), or built from plans. I really like scale models, but since my profession is aeronautical engineering, I have built the odd sports model or a model to try out a specific configuration. The greatest majority of my models are scale though. So far, I have not assembled a single ARF, but see my comments in the first paragraph above.

I would like to address a few misconceptions though:

Time: I work very long hours. My building time is often from about 22:00 to 02:00 in the morning, and on weekends whenever I can put a few hours aside for modeling. Often I only spend about 20 minutes or so a day on my models, as that is all that is available. I have spent anything from about 9 months to 3 years to finish a model, but the level of satisfaction when I complete a model is tremendous. Seeing it fly is then the culmination of all this work. I just love it!

Space: While I was studying in the US, I lived in a one-bedroom apartment. My wife later also joined me in the US. During that time I did my building on a "portable" building board and a coffee table in the living room. Each night, after completing my work, I would put everything away (except when I was waiting for something to dry). I did the same at one stage when I was living with three other flatmates - I would build on the dining table late at night and put everything into a closet so the table was available for breakfast the next morning. Finally, I have done a lot of building at one stage when I had a single carage and I could manage a small bench that just fit in front of the car, and some shelves that I could fit against the wall.

Tools: I now have a very nice collection of both power and manual building tools. But when I started out I basically had some hobby knives, various hand saws and a large collection of sandpaper. The rest were all just standard tools like screwdrivers, etc. Sure, it takes a bit more time and patience, but it can be done with very basic hand tools. Todays kits all come laser cut - surely you don't require much beyond a building board, hobby knives, some basic hand tools and glue to put together such a kit?

The reason I mention these things is not to try and convince anyone who does not want to build that he should do so. Rather, I am sometimes a bit concerned about people who enter the hobby on ARFs and think that kits or plans are only for people with professional artisan training, a fully-equipped workshop and lots of space. To those that would love to build but think for the above reasons that they can't - I would really encourage them to have a go at it regardless of what you think you can or cannot do.

Finally, when it comes to scale models, it is only the really very expensive ARFs that come close to what can be done with a scratch built model - and then they usually require extensive extra work to get there. Sure, you can build a model from scratch and it can still look like junk when you are done, but my experience have been that those people that enjoy building from scratch very rarely produce something mediocre. The majority of scale ARFs I have seen over the years are not great and, besides, I would feel absolutely no satisfaction flying one as it would be like flying someone else's aeroplane. The whole joy in scale modeling for me, personally, is to build a scale miniature of the real thing and then to see that work culminate in something that looks almost like the real thing in the air when flown correctly. Of course, there are many non-scale ARFs that are excellent flyers and as I said, if you only enjoy the flying part of the hobby, why not stick with ARFs?
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:31 AM
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Amen.

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Old 10-10-2006, 08:03 PM
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I agree with that statement. But to prove a point, look at the Arizona Planes and tell me that they aren't award winning? Go to KMP and tell me there Bf-109E isn't very good? If I took any of those planes to a show... people of all ages and backgrounds would drool! And they are ARF and ARC's. Sure they're $ 700 to $800. I wouldn't want my equipment in a cheap airplane anyway, and many of us don't mind paying for the quality... I for one am one of them.

I have thought about spending $ 6,000 for the ready to fly Albatros DVa, but I wrote to them and told them that I was waiting for there second edition Fokker Dr-1 ARF to come out. I also wrote Great Planes, and they are thinking of bringing back the Fokker Dr-1. KMP is coming out with a Stuka and Focke Wulf A-8 soon. I wrote to Hanger 9 and they do have Axis planes in the works, just won't tell me ahead of time what they are because it's against there policy. It makes sense... the competition is enormous with these ARF companies. For all they know I could be a spy. [8D]



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