Help me rate my expertise
07-10-2007, 08:11 PM
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Help me rate my expertise
Although I have done a heck of a lot of reading on these boards this is my very first post. Over the weekend I bought my 4th new glow model, a Seagull Models Extra 260 ARF (91.-1.25). I'm VERY confident in my flying skills but I want some advice on if I am truly ready to fly a bird like this. Right now I am on my second low-wing plane. A Pulse 40XT with a 46. evo. I have be flying this model every weekend since Febuary and although it is a good model I have started to loose interest in it because it is somewhat limited in areobatics and I want to get into 3D. I have been flying glow for about 2 years now.
I plan to use a OS .91FX in the Extra 260 and I'll use my trusty JR 6ch. I do not think I will have any trouble with the Extra. What do you think?
I plan to use a OS .91FX in the Extra 260 and I'll use my trusty JR 6ch. I do not think I will have any trouble with the Extra. What do you think?
07-10-2007, 08:39 PM
#2
RE: Help me rate my expertise
Every Extra and Cap from different manufactures flies differently. Some are VERY sensitive and will tip stallor snap if you blink your eyes, others are very stable for this type of plane.
I suggest going up a buddy box a few times with someone experienced with this type of plane. You will know very quickly if you can handle this particular plane or you need more stick time before you can handle it on your own.
I suggest going up a buddy box a few times with someone experienced with this type of plane. You will know very quickly if you can handle this particular plane or you need more stick time before you can handle it on your own.
07-10-2007, 08:44 PM
#3
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
Just don't get too confident. Since you are asking this question it doesn't appear that your head has inflated yet. 
The Extra 260 will be more considerably more difficult that the Pulse 40XT. Can you land the Pulse in moderate crosswinds using the forward slip? Can you place the Pulse exactly where you want it? Are you able to get out of a stall as if it's second nature? It's difficult to gauge skill by reading a post, but it seems like you will be able to handle it if you can do those things.
That being said, I would not be as comfortable learning 3D with this model. As most* people learn to fly 3D they typically crash a few times. I wouldn't want one of those times to be with this big expensive airplane. My advice would be to first try 3D maneuvers with a more modest airplane and use this one once you have the maneuver figured out. A small profile airplane would be good for initial practice. You could easily build one yourself in a month with little investment.
With the engine being at the bottom of the range I am not sure if it will provide a greater than 1:1 thrust ratio for 3D. I am sure someone else familiar with this model will know.
Good luck, and be careful those first flights. I don't want to see you show up in the "Crash & Rebuild" forum.
* You may be an exception, but are you willing to bet your plane on it?
The Extra 260 will be more considerably more difficult that the Pulse 40XT. Can you land the Pulse in moderate crosswinds using the forward slip? Can you place the Pulse exactly where you want it? Are you able to get out of a stall as if it's second nature? It's difficult to gauge skill by reading a post, but it seems like you will be able to handle it if you can do those things.
That being said, I would not be as comfortable learning 3D with this model. As most* people learn to fly 3D they typically crash a few times. I wouldn't want one of those times to be with this big expensive airplane. My advice would be to first try 3D maneuvers with a more modest airplane and use this one once you have the maneuver figured out. A small profile airplane would be good for initial practice. You could easily build one yourself in a month with little investment.
With the engine being at the bottom of the range I am not sure if it will provide a greater than 1:1 thrust ratio for 3D. I am sure someone else familiar with this model will know.
Good luck, and be careful those first flights. I don't want to see you show up in the "Crash & Rebuild" forum.
* You may be an exception, but are you willing to bet your plane on it?
07-10-2007, 09:32 PM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
I can fly the hell of the Pulse. Stalls, etc are never a problem. Infact, once I get comfortable with a model I will try and find it's absolute lowest stall point and I could not see anyone get themselves into trouble stalling the Pulse givin the right amount of Altitude, It is just to predictable I also found this plane a joy to land is very easy to land it where you want it.
On a second note; I might add that I learned to fly using Real Flight sim and a lot of patience. I have since tought 2 others to fly. I may start out flying this bird using a bit of expo on low rate. I have been practicing on the sim.
On a second note; I might add that I learned to fly using Real Flight sim and a lot of patience. I have since tought 2 others to fly. I may start out flying this bird using a bit of expo on low rate. I have been practicing on the sim.
ORIGINAL: Nathan King
Just don't get too confident. Since you are asking this question it doesn't appear that your head has inflated yet.
The Extra 260 will be more considerably more difficult that the Pulse 40XT. Can you land the Pulse in moderate crosswinds using the forward slip? Can you place the Pulse exactly where you want it? Are you able to get out of a stall as if it's second nature? It's difficult to gauge skill by reading a post, but it seems like you will be able to handle it if you can do those things.
That being said, I would not be as comfortable learning 3D with this model. As most* people learn to fly 3D they typically crash a few times. I wouldn't want one of those times to be with this big expensive airplane. My advice would be to first try 3D maneuvers with a more modest airplane and use this one once you have the maneuver figured out. A small profile airplane would be good for initial practice. You could easily build one yourself in a month with little investment.
With the engine being at the bottm of the range I am not sure if it will provide a greater than 1:1 thrust ratio for 3D. I am sure someone else familiar with this model will know.
Good luck, and be careful those first flights. I don't want to see you show up in the "Crash & Rebuild" forum.
* You may be an exception, but are you willing to bet your plane on it?
Just don't get too confident. Since you are asking this question it doesn't appear that your head has inflated yet.
The Extra 260 will be more considerably more difficult that the Pulse 40XT. Can you land the Pulse in moderate crosswinds using the forward slip? Can you place the Pulse exactly where you want it? Are you able to get out of a stall as if it's second nature? It's difficult to gauge skill by reading a post, but it seems like you will be able to handle it if you can do those things.
That being said, I would not be as comfortable learning 3D with this model. As most* people learn to fly 3D they typically crash a few times. I wouldn't want one of those times to be with this big expensive airplane. My advice would be to first try 3D maneuvers with a more modest airplane and use this one once you have the maneuver figured out. A small profile airplane would be good for initial practice. You could easily build one yourself in a month with little investment.
With the engine being at the bottm of the range I am not sure if it will provide a greater than 1:1 thrust ratio for 3D. I am sure someone else familiar with this model will know.
Good luck, and be careful those first flights. I don't want to see you show up in the "Crash & Rebuild" forum.
* You may be an exception, but are you willing to bet your plane on it?
07-10-2007, 10:11 PM
#5
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
I'd give the Extra a shot. Just be careful, it may need to land a little hotter than your Pulse, possibly tip stall easy, etc. You can't learn new things unless you branch out and try though.
07-11-2007, 08:26 AM
#6
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
Maybe I didn't write the post clearly. I WOULD give it a try as it seems you are ready. I would just be really careful learning 3D with it.
Have fun!
Have fun!
07-11-2007, 09:10 AM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
I'm reminded of an expression that goes something like this:
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots".
While you may be very confident in your abilities, and your confidence may in fact be justified, with limited experience you may not be prepared for the surprises a new larger, faster, and less stable plane may throw at you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with seeking the assistance of a more experienced pilot to do the maiden of your new plane, get it trimmed, and then hand the control to you. In fact, this may just save the plane from an unfortunate mishap, such as a snap roll due to horsing the plane off the ground and then over controlling while trying to recover.
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots".
While you may be very confident in your abilities, and your confidence may in fact be justified, with limited experience you may not be prepared for the surprises a new larger, faster, and less stable plane may throw at you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with seeking the assistance of a more experienced pilot to do the maiden of your new plane, get it trimmed, and then hand the control to you. In fact, this may just save the plane from an unfortunate mishap, such as a snap roll due to horsing the plane off the ground and then over controlling while trying to recover.
07-11-2007, 09:18 AM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
If you do think you want to try it yourself, here are some things you can do to start honing your reflexes for the unexpected. All of these should be done with a plane that's somewhat expendable.
Have someone else make a few changes to the trim, but not tell you what they are. For example, they could put in some down elevator, right ailerons, and left rudder. Since you don't know what they did, when you takeoff, you will need to correct for the problems while you get the plane high enough to start getting the trims back where they should be.
Shift the CG further back to simulate a slightly tail heavy condition.
Reduce the high throttle endpoint to simulate an underpowered plane.
Add temporary weight at the CG to simulate a plane with higher wing loading.
Try flying the plane with rudder instead of ailerons. This simulates failure of aileron servo or linkage.
Have someone else make a few changes to the trim, but not tell you what they are. For example, they could put in some down elevator, right ailerons, and left rudder. Since you don't know what they did, when you takeoff, you will need to correct for the problems while you get the plane high enough to start getting the trims back where they should be.
Shift the CG further back to simulate a slightly tail heavy condition.
Reduce the high throttle endpoint to simulate an underpowered plane.
Add temporary weight at the CG to simulate a plane with higher wing loading.
Try flying the plane with rudder instead of ailerons. This simulates failure of aileron servo or linkage.
07-11-2007, 11:12 AM
#9
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
ORIGINAL: halfinchwrench
Although I have done a heck of a lot of reading on these boards this is my very first post. Over the weekend I bought my 4th new glow model, a Seagull Models Extra 260 ARF (91.-1.25). I'm VERY confident in my flying skills but I want some advice on if I am truly ready to fly a bird like this. Right now I am on my second low-wing plane. A Pulse 40XT with a 46. evo. I have be flying this model every weekend since Febuary and although it is a good model I have started to loose interest in it because it is somewhat limited in areobatics and I want to get into 3D. I have been flying glow for about 2 years now.
I plan to use a OS .91FX in the Extra 260 and I'll use my trusty JR 6ch. I do not think I will have any trouble with the Extra. What do you think?
Although I have done a heck of a lot of reading on these boards this is my very first post. Over the weekend I bought my 4th new glow model, a Seagull Models Extra 260 ARF (91.-1.25). I'm VERY confident in my flying skills but I want some advice on if I am truly ready to fly a bird like this. Right now I am on my second low-wing plane. A Pulse 40XT with a 46. evo. I have be flying this model every weekend since Febuary and although it is a good model I have started to loose interest in it because it is somewhat limited in areobatics and I want to get into 3D. I have been flying glow for about 2 years now.
I plan to use a OS .91FX in the Extra 260 and I'll use my trusty JR 6ch. I do not think I will have any trouble with the Extra. What do you think?
The Extra is one of the semi-scale aerobatic models that fly very much like the full scales they copy. Those airplanes compete in events where it's necessary for the airplane to be able to stall easily. Snap rolls etc require that the wing be stalled. So the Extra model is going to have a stall waiting for you whenever you want it. And it's going to have a stall waiting to spring on you if you try someting like a too slow or too tight loop or try to land the sucker slopply.
I'd like to have a dollar for every thread where some flier wants to cure his Extra/Edge/Sukhoi/Cap of it's "dreaded tip stalling" behavior.
They need to be trimmed with one extra step that most fliers don't hear about. Trim the elevator deflection to just enough for you to stall the wing for a snap roll. Then either learn to handle the elevator stick with that knowledge, or setup you airplane with that deflection for high rates, and trim the low rates so the elevator won't stall the wing into a snap. And land on low rates. Or better yet, just learn to fly the airplane with the skill that airplane requires.
07-11-2007, 12:44 PM
#11
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
ORIGINAL: piper_chuck
If you do think you want to try it yourself, here are some things you can do to start honing your reflexes for the unexpected. All of these should be done with a plane that's somewhat expendable.
Have someone else make a few changes to the trim, but not tell you what they are. For example, they could put in some down elevator, right ailerons, and left rudder. Since you don't know what they did, when you takeoff, you will need to correct for the problems while you get the plane high enough to start getting the trims back where they should be.
Shift the CG further back to simulate a slightly tail heavy condition.
Reduce the high throttle endpoint to simulate an underpowered plane.
Add temporary weight at the CG to simulate a plane with higher wing loading.
Try flying the plane with rudder instead of ailerons. This simulates failure of aileron servo or linkage.
If you do think you want to try it yourself, here are some things you can do to start honing your reflexes for the unexpected. All of these should be done with a plane that's somewhat expendable.
Have someone else make a few changes to the trim, but not tell you what they are. For example, they could put in some down elevator, right ailerons, and left rudder. Since you don't know what they did, when you takeoff, you will need to correct for the problems while you get the plane high enough to start getting the trims back where they should be.
Shift the CG further back to simulate a slightly tail heavy condition.
Reduce the high throttle endpoint to simulate an underpowered plane.
Add temporary weight at the CG to simulate a plane with higher wing loading.
Try flying the plane with rudder instead of ailerons. This simulates failure of aileron servo or linkage.
07-11-2007, 05:58 PM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
if you are a little shaky ask someone to stand out on the spot with you, preferably someone that has flown that type of aircraft before.
I do when ever I flew something radically different, such as the first bipe I ever flew
I do when ever I flew something radically different, such as the first bipe I ever flew
07-11-2007, 06:09 PM
#13
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
Use your expo on your radio and let the thing fly taking off and fly it all the way into landing. I have the Seagull Laser 200 90 size. On take offs I pretty much just keep the wings level until she gets off the ground and really gets flying without using much elevator, or until i need to turn then I make a long shallow bank. After that it's all fun and games. For landings I basically fly it into the ground chop throttle, hold some up elevator for 3 point landings and let her settle by herself. It was the same with my funtana
07-11-2007, 09:04 PM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
Thanks for everyone's advice. I am confident but I also heed anyones advice. Once finished all the control throws have been setup I will add a bit of expo for both low and high rates. There is a guy at my club that flies pattern plane and is a 20 year R/C pilot that I will have stand beside on its first flight.
07-12-2007, 09:43 AM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
Sounds to me like everyone assumes the first flights will be done two feet off the ground.....lol. You will be fine....just fly up a few mistakes high until you feel it out and get comfortable with its "quirks". You will know when you feel ready to start bringing things down low........
Steve
Steve
07-12-2007, 10:11 AM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
ORIGINAL: loser
Sounds to me like everyone assumes the first flights will be done two feet off the ground.....lol. You will be fine....just fly up a few mistakes high until you feel it out and get comfortable with its "quirks". You will know when you feel ready to start bringing things down low........
Sounds to me like everyone assumes the first flights will be done two feet off the ground.....lol. You will be fine....just fly up a few mistakes high until you feel it out and get comfortable with its "quirks". You will know when you feel ready to start bringing things down low........
07-12-2007, 11:11 AM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
I don't want to sound negative, but don't expect a whole lot out of that plane. It's not going to do 3D like I think you expect. Not because of the plane it is, but because of the size of the plane compared to the size of the engine. The plane calls for a .91 - 1.25 2 or 4 stroke. a .91 2 stroke would be close to the bare minimum. It will fly it fine ... if you plan on using it as a sport plane - loops, rolls, maybe a harrier, but you might have trouble controlling knife edges and hovers. The best bet for a .91 2 stroke would be on a .60 sized plane. If it were me, I'd get bored with it in less time than it took you with the Pulse.
It's just an opinion, and in no way am I dissing your setup, but I think you'd have alot more fun with the .91 on a .60 size Extra or a U Can Do.
It's just an opinion, and in no way am I dissing your setup, but I think you'd have alot more fun with the .91 on a .60 size Extra or a U Can Do.
07-12-2007, 12:02 PM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
Do you allready own the .91FX? If not I would suggest maybe a Saito 100 or 125. Better torque, swing a bigger prop, quicker response.
07-12-2007, 08:44 PM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
I intended to use the 91 FX (yes, I owned it already on a 60 sized plane) to get used to the plane and then buy something a bit bigger. Now I am looking to just get a bigger engine from the get go. I am not looking to jump into 3D right off the bat but I have just grown out of what I have and 3D is the road I want to head down.
11-07-2007, 02:32 AM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
Halfinchwrench...
I was just wondering how your 260 has been performing. It was probably a good idea to go with a larger engine. I to am trying to move up and get into 3D. I was thinking of a 120 4 stroke at first but I've been talking to a very experienced 3Der and he said if you want this plane to do anything and everything go with a 180 4 stoke. So that's what I'm going to do. Hey my philosophy is if you ever want to progress you have to challenge yourself. If this works out well I'm going to 50cc gas. I really like the Hanger 9 Extra 260. A guy had one at he air field and it flys nice with a 50cc gas.
Happy flying!
Aerosman[sm=shades_smile.gif]
I was just wondering how your 260 has been performing. It was probably a good idea to go with a larger engine. I to am trying to move up and get into 3D. I was thinking of a 120 4 stroke at first but I've been talking to a very experienced 3Der and he said if you want this plane to do anything and everything go with a 180 4 stoke. So that's what I'm going to do. Hey my philosophy is if you ever want to progress you have to challenge yourself. If this works out well I'm going to 50cc gas. I really like the Hanger 9 Extra 260. A guy had one at he air field and it flys nice with a 50cc gas.
Happy flying!
Aerosman[sm=shades_smile.gif]
11-07-2007, 05:48 AM
#23
RE: Help me rate my expertise
Half,
At the risk of sounding like a smarta** here, and I sure don't want to do that, I flew my first Extra a bunch of years ago, and I was expecting some evil monster of a plane. I was misinformed. Sure if you were flying too close to stall speed, you could get it to break into a snap in a heartbeat. What I found was probably the most honest flying aerobat that I had ever flown (pattern planes (some of them) excluded). If this is your 4th plane and your second low/mid wing plane, go for it. I would advise against the grossly overpowered suggestions that you get in most of these threads. Some guys would be happy with a pine 2X8 if they had enough engine to make it hover. Fly what you brung, and learn to enjoy it. Once you are comfortable with the charistics of the Extra, you might want to re-evaluate the power, and bump it up a notch. Main thing....Have fun with it.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
At the risk of sounding like a smarta** here, and I sure don't want to do that, I flew my first Extra a bunch of years ago, and I was expecting some evil monster of a plane. I was misinformed. Sure if you were flying too close to stall speed, you could get it to break into a snap in a heartbeat. What I found was probably the most honest flying aerobat that I had ever flown (pattern planes (some of them) excluded). If this is your 4th plane and your second low/mid wing plane, go for it. I would advise against the grossly overpowered suggestions that you get in most of these threads. Some guys would be happy with a pine 2X8 if they had enough engine to make it hover. Fly what you brung, and learn to enjoy it. Once you are comfortable with the charistics of the Extra, you might want to re-evaluate the power, and bump it up a notch. Main thing....Have fun with it.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
11-07-2007, 07:56 AM
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RE: Help me rate my expertise
I think it should be a great progression for you. Although the new plane might be more capable, it is larger than your old airplane. Planes get more stable, the bigger they are. More mass, more inertia. So, it might seem very nearly like an even swap. You should love it.
