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Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

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Old 05-06-2003, 10:51 PM
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Spaceclam
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

hi. i am the proud owner of a semi-scale cap232. the one you see in my avatar. (beautiful thing) however, it has one nasty habbit and one alone. but being a competition plane i wonder why it exists. when i pull back on the stick sharply or suddenly, it rolls to the left. that is against the torque, so that eliminates that. i have tried solving it on the sims, and have put joystick meters on screen, and i don't accidentally yank the aileron so that isn't the case either.
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Old 05-06-2003, 11:14 PM
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CAPtain232
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

How are your elevators set up? Do you have a servo on each half, and if so are they in perfect sequence with one another? It almost sounds like your left elevator has more movement in it or possibly you have a little left rudder in.
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Old 05-07-2003, 01:49 AM
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Default "habbits"

no, i don't. my elevators are run off of one servo with a split control rod. the thing is, it does not do that when it is forced down, and it does the same thing when it stalls. it rolls to the right. so what i am thinking is that the loss of airspeed does that because i can yank it up pretty fast, but being a competition champion airplane, you would think it would not do that.now, about the rudder, i have used ALL 7 of my programable mixers, all for things like flaperons, airbrakes, mixture control, dual aileron servos, gyro, and so on. so there is definatly no rudder IMPUT in there. that does not mean that for some reason it kicks in. do you have the realflight simulator? if you do, try selecting the cap and pulling back kinda hard on the stick. it rolls.
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Old 05-29-2003, 05:18 AM
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SY in Camas
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

I built a Great Planes Extra 300s 0.60 size and I have the same problem. I did the usual stuff like making sure the wing, stab, and rudder were all square. I took all the slop out of the split elevator linkage by using carbon fiber control rods. I mounted the elevator servo horizontally instead of vertically so that both elevator halves moved exactly the same amount. Checked the CG. I cranked in more right thrust. Still no improvement. Finally, I tightened up the ailerons by replacing the servos (wing has one servo per aileron) with ball bearing servos and I went to 4-40 control rods instead of 2-56 rods, and I used clevises at both ends to get a tight fit in the control horns. Also added some weight to the nose. These changes made noticeable improvements. Further research seems to show that the tapered, square tipped wing is prone to tip stalling if you push it too hard. That is what is happening when you pull up hard. There is no washout in these wings so they will fly the same upside down as right side up. My leading edges are pretty sharp so I am going to sand them down and see if that helps. I too was disappointed to find out that my aerobatic plane can't do a sharp loop but this snapping is also a characteristic of the full scale planes.
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Old 05-29-2003, 02:27 PM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

That is a Cap 232. Too much up elevator will cause a snap. Try adjusting your elevator for less throw and save the high rate for 3D.
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Old 05-29-2003, 08:34 PM
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SY in Camas
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

Also, need to make sure all your hinge gaps are sealed. I found that all the items I previously mentioned improved the tracking in pulling up to a loop or vertical climb. Still, it will snap if you pull hard on the elevator and have too much travel. After all, that helps do snappy snap rolls and spins! I see there are quite a few different threads on what is basically the same subject, unintended snaps when pulling to a climb or loop.
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Old 05-30-2003, 01:50 AM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

My guess it’s stalling and forces from the prop such as asymmetrical thrust etc. make it break left or “tip stall” as many call it.

As stall can happen at any speed.
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Old 05-30-2003, 01:08 PM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

it breaks right, against the torque
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Old 06-01-2003, 01:44 AM
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Default Re: Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

Originally posted by Spaceclam
hi. i am the proud owner of a semi-scale cap232. the one you see in my avatar. (beautiful thing) however, it has one nasty habbit and one alone. but being a competition plane i wonder why it exists. when i pull back on the stick sharply or suddenly, it rolls to the left . that is against the torque, so that eliminates that. i have tried solving it on the sims, and have put joystick meters on screen, and i don't accidentally yank the aileron so that isn't the case either.
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Old 06-01-2003, 10:30 PM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

sorry, my right, facing from tail to nose. i confuze myself a lot. sorry
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Old 06-03-2003, 04:31 AM
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SY in Camas
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

Still working on my Extra 300 which is similar to a CAP 232. Dulled the leading edges at the outter third of each wing as much as possible without taking too much off the leading edges. Seemed to help a little with the unintended snaps when pulling up hard to a loop but not much. Cut back the elevator travel. Made some minute changes (1/2 turn) to one aileron and one elevator half and that helped the plane trim out. Time to fly it for a while before fooling around with the trim any more.
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Old 06-03-2003, 08:42 AM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

Do a search on the subject. Good chance of it being just your everyday run of the mill stall. Might be a slight (and I mean very slight) warp in the wing ,elevator might be off a tiny bit, one wing tip heavier than the other............could be a million things causing it to snap in the direction it does. However it all comes down to the fact that you are entering stall conditions. I would say you have to much throw on your elevator. Try letting up a little, or add the elevator gradually.
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Old 06-03-2003, 03:54 PM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

ya. i did indeed find that it was fine if the elevator input was gradual, but i could not wall it sile some of the other cap 232's can. here's my theory. the wind loading on this thing is very high. (9 lbs plane, 625 sq in) so the nose points up a while before the plane acutally reacts. so, when i wall it, the plane never even begins an upward climb. i tried this my quickly walling it and letting go, not givcing it enough time to snap. the plane's nose would rise a lot, but the plane wouldn't.
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Old 06-04-2003, 01:59 AM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

You have a case of the Caps. Every one I have ever seen does that.
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Old 06-04-2003, 03:13 AM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

can you reccomend a model either equal to the cap 232 or even more aerobatic that does not do that? that would be my next plane.
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Old 06-04-2003, 03:16 AM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

I have always been partial to an Extra 300.
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Old 06-04-2003, 03:17 AM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

in case that is not doable, have a second choice?
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Old 06-04-2003, 03:18 AM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

i need something with HUGE control surfaces
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Old 06-04-2003, 08:20 AM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

2 words
Pro File
or mybe thats one?? :bananahea
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Old 06-04-2003, 02:19 PM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

those things are butt ugly
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Old 06-04-2003, 02:23 PM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

But MUCH fun !!!!
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Old 06-04-2003, 02:33 PM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

Originally posted by Spaceclam
those things are butt ugly
Yeah, but how many Profile flyers do you hear about snapping out?

Tim_Indy gives a fine series of answers to you question in This Thread I Found With The Search Feature]
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Old 06-04-2003, 02:36 PM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

the only one i have ever seen snaps
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Old 06-04-2003, 06:56 PM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

Ok then, you don't know what you are missing until you fly one of them. Set with wild throws and full stick bending inputs, the things are a blast.

The Sig Cap231 was a great plane to fly. It was pretty light with the Saito 1.80. I only put a few flights before I sold it. Just to big for me (I have a Merc Topaz!!) I set the high rates just over recomended and had no problems with snapping.
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Old 06-04-2003, 11:21 PM
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Default Cap 232 and it's "habbits"

#1 What is the difference between a cap 231 and a cap 232?
#2 is the sig cap 232 a profile plane or the non 4x4 type plane?
#3 how much does it cost?
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