FlyI Bus Driver

My Feedback: (8)

Most airliners don't have castering gear, including the 320 series of airlines if I remember right. Some models of the 737 have a type of castering gear due to the low hanging CFMs on them, but that's about it. Nearly all can land in a pretty heavy crab, like you said, though. There are videos floating around of 747s and 777s doing some amazing touchdowns in heavy winds. I personally can't stand it when someone lands with a side load, but sometimes it needs to be done. Auto-lands come to mind. They are done in a crab if there is a crosswind; if I remember right.

ply2win

My Feedback: (3)

That's a pretty fancy plane you have. I'm just curious how you got to be that advanced without ever landing in a cross wind. Do you normally not fly when it is windy? I find that a lot of people around here won't go anywhere near the field when there is wind. That works out good for me because I have the place to myself

By the way, you're right about the wind on the simulator. It doesn't seem very realistic, you pretty much have to practice in the real thing.

diamondave

My Feedback: (29)

i have flown in the wind, dont get me wrong, but i either land on the runway into it, which were not supposed to do actually at our field, or ive been lucky to come in sideways and set it down soft enough where no damage accurs, i just figured id start a thread here to get some more experiences, wisdom if you will, ive gotten more feedback these last few days then i get at my field in a few weeks time...and this particular plane seems to really get turned easier than other glow planes ive flown, i guess its the light wing loading, great for 3d, but not good for penetrating the wind, so i wanted to make sure i had the right idea anyway for landing in the wind

diamondave

My Feedback: (29)

no i dont fly when it gets really windy, i dont mind breezes, or light winds, but when our sock gets up almost level with the ground i generally dont fly, unless it is in line with the runway, even then if im not worried about landing, its just not as fun to fly in the wind, doing hairriers into it where you're almsot stopped is kinda cool, but other manuvers arent as enjoyable, and i try to have fun when flying, strong wind is not fun to me

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The wind as long as the sock isn't straight out doesn't bother me.

It is the gusts and convective updrafts that I don't like

ply2win

My Feedback: (3)

That's true, it isn't always as much fun in the wind but it is a good challenge. I think it's great that you are trying to learn a cross wind landing, a lot of people don't even bother.

I went out to the field on New Year's Day and I expected the place would be packed but there was no one there. I couldn't figure it out at first and then I realized it was windy (about 20mph). I was there for several hours and never did see anybody. When you can master flying in wind you will have many more opportunities to go fly.

diamondave

My Feedback: (29)

flying is always enjoyable to me, just not as much in the wind, and i wanted to ask around on here to see what other methods are out there, i may be getting my plane home safely, but there could be a different technique that i might like better, so here we are, my buddies enter some imac contests and they want me to start this year, im not sure if i will, anyway they fly whether its windy or not, so for now i dont need to fly in the wind, but if im in a contest and will be zero'ed out then i want to be able to do it, and we just had the tucson shootout here, it was very windy, those guys in that contest are amazing, they seem to come straight in uneffected by the wind completly, and even there sequences were straight and true, it was really something, i know there planes are bigger and heavier than mine witch may help, but there was alot of talent shown that weekend, anyway sounds like i have a few ideas now, just need to do it i guess

Mode One

Pretty much like most have said I allow the plane to crab on final approach and stab some rudder in at touch down to head the plane in the direction it will be traveling on the ground. This must be the "Crab & Stab" method. I've messed with sidesliping (cross controling) on final, but, it doesn't come natural and lord help me if I have to react quickly as I feel like I would probably go the wrong way with rudder or ailerons. Slipping is much easier in full scale as your referance for what is happening, is the centerline of the runway.

jerrysu29

As a CFI there are two usual methods that we teach to accomplish a crosswind approach and landing - the crab method, and the wing-low, or sideslip method. The crab method requires a high degree of judgement and timing; therefore, the wing low, or sideslip method is recommended in most cases although a combination of both may be used. I prefer the wing low, sideslip method for full scale as well as all my RC aircraft. This actually gives you more time to get the plane to hold it's ground track and longitudinal axis aligned with the runway centerline throughout the final approach, roundout ,touchdown, and after-landing roll and helps prevent damaging side loads on the landing gear at touchdown. There is also a limit to the crosswind component capability for each and every different model due to design for full scale aircraft it can be found in the pilot's operating handbook . Wouldn't it be nice if our RC planes came with such a manual or operating handbook, rather than having to go out and find out just how much crosswind our RC planes will actually handle, I quess that's the fun part.
jerrysu29 Call Sign Wild Man

diamondave

My Feedback: (29)

i was just playin on the sim for an hour or so, cranked up the wind and had it come from my back, thats usually the way we have a cross wind when it comes up, anyway, tried slip and crab to last second, i thought i would like to slip it all the way in, but actually it seemed more comfy to crab in and then straighten up on landing, slipping was tough, the tail would drop and id counter, then add more aileron too so i didnt drift off the runway,ended up looking like i was in a half-*****ed knife edge flight, was hard to keep in line with the runway, so we'll see, it was on the sim so things may be differnt at the field next time

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

You might practice the slipping from a cockpit view to learn how on the sim. May seem more natural for you?

jerrysu29

when practicing the sideslip method do not play with the rudder use enough rudder to take out the crab angle and hold it there. Use the ailerons to control the directional control to line yourself up on the centerline of the runway. Remember any time you cross control an aircraft it creates a high amount of drag which will cut your airspeed quite a bit, so be ready to add throttle as you increase the cross control inputs on the control surfaces One more thing start out with very light crosswinds and practice, practice, practice
As our chief club flight instructor I have noticed that everybody finds crosswind landings very uncomfortable at first but with help and practice they do just fine.

diamondave

My Feedback: (29)

thats what i think, i have no problem controling the plane as far as if its coming or going, i think it was because it was litterally the 1st attemps i made at it, and doing each a handful of times, the crab seemed to give more immediate succes, i am sure if i sit down and do slips over and over a few nights a week, i will get the hang of it, your right about the wind, maybe i should start out with less and work my way up, at least with the sim i have that option

Villa

Our field is fairly wide so we can come in at an angle when the cross winds are strong(we can angle the runway). After a large number of horrible landings/crashes doing this I decided to review my options. I have been flying R/C since 1972 and rarely stand down from the wind. I concluded that the problem was not the crosswind. The problem was that coming in at an angle to reduce the crosswind effect was changing my view of the plane to the extend that I was losing orientation. The rate of decent, the air speed as determined by my perceived ground speed, and my angle of flair were completely screwed up, so a smooth landing was practically impossible. I always attempt to touch down directly in front of me on every landing. In this manner I know where the plane is relative to me and the runway. I know that the average human depth of perception is only 17 feet. The plane always lands much further than this so you have to guess where the plane is relative to anything. Now, if the wind is terrible, I just make my normal approach, and drive the plane all the way to the ground so it touches down near in front of me, using the throttle/rudder/ailerons/elevator to keep it heading down the runway as needed. I don't intentionally crab into the wind but the plane does head into the wind some, since I am doing what is needed to keep it under control and heading into the wind is a natural result. I love high winds, gust and all, and frequently am the only one willing to go up. It does help that now I only fly SPADS which can take a beating.

David Bathe

Making a cross wind landing when it's REALLY blowing isn't that simple, but isn't something to be scared about... you just need to adopt a different mind set.
Forget about the straight line greaser... and get functional. This isn't the time for showing how great you are... it's about showing how smart you are. It's about getting the plane down on the runway without having to rebuild any of it.
Try this approach... (pun not intended but rather nice)
Lets say the wind is blowing in your face, your're landing from left to right.
Down wind leg straight as normal. wings level.
90 deg turn to left to bring you towards the runway line. Wings level.
Now, instead of the normal 90deg left turn to line you up with the runway and level out the wings.... and then all the fiddleing around with rudder/side slipping panic nonsense do this:
Do a 100 deg (or less/more depending on wind) turn to left to line you up with the back side of the runway and then roll your wings back to almost horizontal leaving the left wing dipped silghtly into the wind.
Then just drive it home. The yaw/crap is automatically established because of the over turn.
If the wind is coming the opposite way, under turn etc etc.
Keep some engine on and use small amounts of rudder/aileron to fine tune the approach even AFTER you touched down.
Far simpler to do than write about!

Nathan King

The crab and forward slip techniques are good; however, a good landing starts with a good approach. This means being able to fly a good clean pattern. Say you took off from left to right (left hand traffic pattern) and the wind is blowing towards you. It would be smart to extend your crosswind leg out a little more. When you fly the base leg, it won't take long for your airplane (with an increased groundspeed) to come in. Don't let yourself overshoot the runway. Often guys that do will bank sharply to realign. Their low airspeed and high bank angle can easily cause a loss of control. I've seen no less than two warbirds lost to this at our field.

I generally perfer the forward slip for both full scale and model flight. And remember to "dive away" from the wind using your ailerons and elevator when taxiing back. That way your airplane won't be as likely to have a downwind wingtip pushed into the ground by a gust.

P.S. The simulator is a good tool, but the "gusts" on the simulator don't even come close to the violent turbulence on approaches at our field. Expect more difficulty when doing this in the real world.

diamondave

My Feedback: (29)

yeh the sim is not realistic, but it gives you the motions to learn to correct, i like to fly 3d stuff, i sat on the sim and did torque rolls alot, over and over, it was easy on the sim compared to real life, but after lots and lots of time on the sim, i learned which corrections to make when the bottom of the plane rolls around, now i can do it in real life and dont even think about which imputs to do, it comes to me naturally, so im guessing if i did it on the sim as much as i did trolls, it would help im sure....dont get me wrong about starting this entire post, i have flown in wind and i have landed successfully, not had to repair anything, i just wanted more ideas[sm=idea.gif]