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Gyro Use...........

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Old 06-11-2003, 01:43 AM
  #1  
norbe
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Default Gyro Use...........

Hi,
I'm new in this hobby and there are a lot of things I still don't know how they work. I always read about the use of a gyro, now I do know the principals of how a gyro works, I had to learn it back when I got my pilot's license, but I don't seem to understand why and for what are they useful in a model aircraft. Could someone please explain me?
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Old 06-11-2003, 01:50 AM
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Default Gyro Use...........

Gyros are not commonly used in planes. Rather RC helicopters use them to control the tail, making minor corrections to hold heading.

The gyro in inserted between the receiver and the rudder servo. Rudder commands are then "modified" by the gyro software before being sent to the servo. An auxillary channel is also used to send gain commands to the gyro itself.

Tom
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Old 06-11-2003, 03:19 AM
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upnflyin
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Get yourself a FMA copilot setup. It will make you extremelly happy.They are worth every penny of what they cost.
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Old 06-11-2003, 04:03 AM
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norbe
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Can you give me more info on this FMA copilot.... and I heard that they don't work if you perform acrobatics, is it true???
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Old 06-11-2003, 11:06 AM
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Does it work; yes. Intriguing; yes. Useful; no.

I have flown with a copilot but I just couldn't see the value of it. It doesn't replace an instructor since it can't takeoff or land the plane for you. It will just fly the plane in a straight line. Anyone able to takeoff can do that by themself.

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Old 06-11-2003, 01:45 PM
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That is compleately true the straight flight is the easyest of them all. Well I am passed that so I think the copilot would be useless. The only use I could give it is that in case of the lost of control over a acrobatic manuver you just let go and the copilot puts the plane back to straight flight, but as I understand it doesn't do that .... so....
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Old 06-11-2003, 10:00 PM
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Default Gyro Use...........

The Co Pilot will put you back straight and level if you mess up an aerobatic maneuver. No matter what attitude you are in the Co Pilot will straighten it out (if you let go).

As for the gyro, it can help to learn to hover a plane as it takes some of the work load off using the rudder. I have seen guys use it for this. Many guys flying warbirds that exhibit poor ground handling use the gyro to help keep the plane straight on take offs and landings. Some of the jet guys use it on the nose gear servo.

So they do have their uses and they work quite well. Do you need one? That's your call.
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Old 06-11-2003, 11:18 PM
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the thing about the fma copilot is when you center your sticks it returns your plane to strait and level flight. that means if you are going vertical, you don't need correction, it wsill bring you back to strait and level flight. that also means, let's say, you want to maintain a down attitude, and it doesn't require a stick motion. basically, you have to keep the sticks off center or it will suddenly return to strait and level flight. i am not a big fan of those. i use a gyro on my plane. i have it on the rudder because i am swinging a huge prop, and when i takeoff, the plane want's to torque really badly. my gyro compensates for that. futaba makes one, the gya351. that has a rate gyro setting, and a heading hold setting. the rate setting means if you have it on your aileron, and your plane banks right for 1 second, it will compensate for one second, starting when it notices the movement. that does not mean it will return you to it's origional heading, but is usefull for gusts. you control the gain and the output. heading hold (sometimes referred to as heading lock) "gives more as it get's more" that means, that when you move your plane, it gives a signal to the servo to move the surface perportionatly. let's use my case. my plane yaws right. the farther it goes off heading, the more rudder is given. so, the more the plane moves back to it's origional course, the less gyro imput there is. that will bring you back to the heading you were at previously, but it will not necessarily return you to the strait line you were flying on before it was moved. gyros sell for about $150. so basically, to put this entire messsage into one sentence, gyros compensate for unwanted movement. they are particualrly usefull in tail draggers, and on windy days. in comparrisson to the copilot, the copilot does not compensate for unwanted movement. all it does is bring you up to a strait line if you are about to crash. that's your instructors job. the copilot will not teach you to land or takeoff, as an instructor will. copilots do not replace instructors. and if you do have an instructor, you don't need the copilot anyway. also, you have to mount them outside the plane, and they look really ugly. gyros can be mounted anywhere. inside or out. hope this helps.
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Old 06-12-2003, 02:44 AM
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All I can say to all you negative type people is - "I have a copilot on my plane and I feel real comfortable using it". It is there if I need it and since I keep it turned down considerablely it doesn't get in the way to easy flying. I don't need it to just fly around but when it comes time to land and the wind is acting up I crank a little more in as needed. It makes flying more fun and I thought that is why we do this. Lots cheaper than gyros too.
It doesn't take the place of an instructor but it sure helps.
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Old 06-12-2003, 02:56 AM
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but waht the copilot does is fly the plane for you. what a gyro does is correct for unwanted movement, regardless where the sticks are. he asked about gyro use, and the copilot is by no means a gyro. it does not do the same thing as a gyro. it works differently than a gyro. it has different needs than a gyro. basically, if you are having trouble flying it, let the copilot take over while you get yoru nerves taken care of. UNDERSTANDABLE. however, let's say you are in a turn. you get a gust of wind. the copilot will not react, but the gyro will. it will not interfere with your controls. if you have a trainer, a gyro is not necessary. it is never really necessary, but it is more useful on tail draggers or on more turbulant fields. to put it into other words, let's say you hear a song on the radio, with a lot of static. what a gyro would do is dampen or get rid of the static, while you can still adjust balance, bass, trebble and volume. what the copilot would do, would get rid of the static as long as everything: balance, bass, trebble, and volume are all at neautral. then, when you move it away, it all builds back up again. make sence?
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Old 06-12-2003, 04:09 AM
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Ok that makes a lot of sense, now here is my question, ALL my planes are tail draggers, I got a Supersportster ARF, that is very easy to control, a PiperCub, 80" wingspan, that is very sensible to the wind (and here there is a lot) and comming in a Extra 300S ARF or the greatplanes. On the last one I will install the bigest engine possible (65c.c.) So would a ruder gyro help to compensate the engine???
And in the case of the CUB would it help compensate the great sensibility it has to wind??
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Old 06-12-2003, 11:16 AM
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Yes, the gyro will help with the wind problem, because it will make corrections many, many times faster than you can.
You don't need a real expensive gyro, and you don't want a heading hold gyro.
Set it at about 50% gain for the first fight, then adjust accordingly.

Make sure it corrects in the proper direction. If it is not set properly it will want to chase it's tail.
Easy to set, pushing the nose to the left, should produce a right rudder correction, and vice,versa.
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Old 06-13-2003, 12:50 AM
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Default Gyro Use...........

acutally, get the futaba gya 351. it is both rate and heading hold. i have mine on a 3 way switch so that i flip it up for takeoff (i have a .60 sized plane swinging a 14 inch prop) becaue if i don't the plane really wants to torque. it keeps it really strait and makes it look like i do not have a problem. i turn it off usually during flight, but when it is windy, or sometimes when i land, i turn it onto rate. it really works well. you don't want to fly around with heading hold because it will fly like crap, especially when you want to turn. takeoffs and torque rolls only. i would reccomend this gyro becaue it can do anything for every occasion. you would be amazed at how much rate gyro helps during windy days. a tail dragger with a smaller prop miht not have that problem, but you aid you would put in the biggest engine possible. try that gyro or an equivelant. i will guard that with my life
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Old 06-13-2003, 01:39 AM
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Default Gyro Use...........

I know a couple of guys that fly very competitively in ScaleMasters and Top Gun competition. They both use gyrs on their rudders to smooth out the flights in wind.

Personally, for flying sport planes I think gyros are a crutch. I'd rather learn the proper techniques to fly the plane myself. I fly mostly tail draggers including a Citabria, which is known for it's extremely unstable ground handling. Guess what, with practice I've learned to take off as smoothly as with any other tail dragger.

I won't say that they don't have their place, such as in competition (when they're allowed). After all, you need every 1/10th of a point. They're just not for me.

That IS what makes this hobby great though. The technology is there, and if you want to use it, you should!
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Old 06-13-2003, 04:11 AM
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the thing you overlooked is the size of the rudders on those competition planes. a small gust of wind will likc that thing over no sweat, so they want a gyro to compensate subliminally so it doesn't do anything silly
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Old 06-13-2003, 01:04 PM
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Very intresting, now what would a "normal" gyro cost me... And does it stays always on or is there a way to turn it on and of by remote???
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Old 06-13-2003, 06:44 PM
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Default Gyro Use...........

there is no such thing as a normal gyro. there are better gyros, but no normal gyro. that is due to the fact that there are two different ways for a gyro to function. they are rate and heading hold. i went over those before. so it is up to you to decide. some gyros have remote gain adjustment. that means you can set up a switch to turn the gain down to zero when you flip it turning it essencially off. ifyou get a heading hold, it is good for takeoff on taildraggers with large props, but is useless in the air because planes tend to fly like crap with heading hold on. if you get a rate gyro, it will compensate for the innitial kick of the throttle up, but will not keep it heading the same direction necessarily. they are useful in the air on windy days though. you don't need it if there is no wind. futaba's gya 351 has both rate and heading hold. that means you need a 3 way switch, but that also means that you can maintain your heading on spool up which makes you look like a muhc better pilot, and conpensate for gusts on windy days. the rate comes in handy when you either have a trainer because they don't handle wind that well, or when you have a competition plane with large tail feathers. yoru choice. the gya 351 is about $150. a lot of gyros cost about that. you can, however, get non remote adjustable mini rate gyros. that means that they are always on though. they cost abotu $60 apiece, and are manufactured by gws.
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Old 06-13-2003, 07:09 PM
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Default Gyro Use...........

A small rate gyro is all you need if you feel you need to tame a hard to handle plane on the ground.

You don't have to worry about in-flight adjustments and the stick will over ride the gyro input for normal flying.

Set it for 50% and adjust if needed.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXL313&P=7
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Old 06-16-2003, 02:27 AM
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if the plane is squirly on the ground, then yes, a rate gyro is a good choice. but if you have a big prop, or something or other with a lot of torque, than it will constantly want to move, so you micht want to get one with heading hold as well. it also will compensate for the difference in sensitivity between the rudder and tailwheel.
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Old 06-16-2003, 01:48 PM
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OK everything is very intresting. Now Here are a few questrions. First is there any other gyro other than the original futaba that would work as well and at the same time have the option to be turned on and off on the remote (I have a 9C ) ?
Second I went to tower hobbies site and saw that there are a loto of gyros (futaba) some of wich cost a fortune, digital display and all, now they say "for heli" and others for planes, what is the diffrence and would this last one work in a plane as well???
What is the SMM tecnology that some have ??
Last question is that I can see two airplane gyros the
Futaba GYA351 Gyro Aircraft Dual Servo the other is
Futaba GYA352 Gyro Dual Axis Aircraft
now is that what I think, one is for example for the rudder, in case I had 2 servos on it and the other one is for two diffrent corrections, lets say ruder and alerons??? And in case I put a gyro on a control surface will it work only when the control sticks are at center or even during manuvers... If they do work always wont that affect my handling possibilities???
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Old 06-16-2003, 04:12 PM
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your sticks do not have to be centered. the gyro compensaton is on top of your control movement, meaning it will add or subtract as needed nomater where your sticks are. smm is silicone micro machine. it the method futaba uses for the rate gyros. the gya 352 costs about $20 more than just buying two gyros, so don't get that one. i recomended the 351 because you can turn it on and off. i have it on a 3 way switch on my tx. i have it on the set of switches on the corner where my inded finger rests. that is called stratecig placing. heading hold is up, off is center, and smm rate is down. i have it set up so that my timer is under the gyro switch, so i have to have my timer on and heading hold on in order to fit my finger between them so i don't forget when i take off. after i take off, i switch it to center, or the off position. if it is windy, i put it on rate, and i forget the wind is there. i have never used any other gyros besides the futaba and the gws one, but the guys at my field are raving about that gyro and i happen to have used it so i will recomend it. let's say, for simplicity, that this gyro does everything you have stated you want it to do. if you want to know if it will perform another function you want, ask me and i will give you a yes or no.
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Old 06-16-2003, 10:28 PM
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Ok and what about the futaba 350 single servo, I mean if the plane has only one servo on the tail it should be the same than the 351 or not. By the way I still don't know what is the smm.
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Old 06-16-2003, 10:30 PM
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SMM (Single Micro Machine) technology is the integration of
mechanical elements, sensors, actuators and electronics all brought
together on a common substrate chip resulting in an unprecedented
level of functionality, reliability, and sophistication.
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Old 06-17-2003, 01:06 AM
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sorry, i meant 350. i guess i thought 351 once, said it twice, and i thought that is what i had. i guess it sounds better. anyway, i am sure the 351 can do whatever the 350 can.
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