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  1. #26
    skeeter_ca's Avatar
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    Back to the midair mishaps. If one fast plane overtakes a slower plane in a normal pattern and hits the slower plane is it the fast planes fault? I know when i fly it is very diffulcult to judge planes distances in the flash of a second that they pass.

    skeeter
    \"It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission\".

  2. #27
    TexasAirBoss's Avatar
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane


    ORIGINAL: tocstrum


    ORIGINAL: PilotFighter



    So, if I destroy something, as long as its something that I can't personally afford, then I should assume that I'm not expected to pay for it ?



    I got news for you Pilot, a person driving a Lamborghini cannot reasonably expect an average joe to pony up a million dollars if there is an accident. thats why they have insurance.
    Bottom line, if you have a model that you are not willing to lose, then you should not put it out there at risk.
    Yes, I understand that. Do you understand that the insurance company is then going to attempt to recoup its loss and come after you, garnish wages, maybe take your home and car ? Thats why you have insurance. Not for the the other guy, for yourself.

    The jury might go easy on you with the case of the Lamborghini. But you are skating on very thin ice if you don't carry enough insurance to pay for the BMW.

    But all of these exotic situations are only a ploy to derail the argument. No one is actually talking about a 1 million dollar model airplane, are they ? We are talking about models that generally cost between several hundred dollars up to several thousands of dollars. Anyone that can afford this hobby can also afford insurance. And if they choose to skip the insurance and just buy model airplanes, then they are irresponsible. A homeowners liabilty umbrella only cost a few hundred dollars. Its worth the money to save your retirement and car and home.

    Bottom line, if you don't have a home that you are willing to risk, you shouldn't put it on the line.
    ME: \"I need a good rate down to one three thousand\". EXPRESS: \"Roger, we\'\'re coming down like a Bonanza full of doctors\".

  3. #28
    Scott Geller's Avatar
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    I'm hoping that you can come all the way back around to talk about the original question. Are you saying that a person flying at a flying field should take out an insurance policy to cover themselves if they damage anothers plane or they should keep $5k, $10k or $20k in cash on the side just in case? And are you saying if they don't have that cash or insurance they have no business flying? Is that what you are saying?

  4. #29
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    Yes, yes, yes, and yes. I'm sorry if you don't like the personal property laws here. But there is nothing that I can do to change them for you.

    My club and most all clubs require insurance. It cost 58 dollars for one million in liability from the AMA.
    ME: \"I need a good rate down to one three thousand\". EXPRESS: \"Roger, we\'\'re coming down like a Bonanza full of doctors\".

  5. #30

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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    IMO
    Comparing any mid-air to this particular situation is silly. its apples and oranges.
    As most others have already said.... Biplane guy advanced the throttle and ran over an airplane.
    He was clearly at fault, he paid as he should have... end of story

    If it had been a Top Gun jet that he ran over the situation would be the same, biplane guy would clearly be at fault and even though more painful he should still pay.

    Now if Biplane guy and foamie guy are flying and they mid-air (unless one of them was obviously trying to hit the other) then its no fault and no one pays for the other.

    I can't believe someone suggested everyone in the group contribute to a fund to replace planes lost in mid-airs or other accidents, what the heck is up with that ???
    Regards,
    Charlie

  6. #31

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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    PilotFighter Could you please tell me were and who sells insurance to cover an airplane that i might do damage to ... I never heard of that I know your homeowners and auto do not offer that.. it only offers for personal and property damage....NOT ANOTHER AIRPLANE. Also most everyone agrees that the pilot that causes the crash is at fault and should pay but what do you do or can do if he sayes sorrry Icant afford that or to bad accidents happen... It will come down to he said she said and OH WELL PROVE IT. To bad the AMA or IMAA does not offer insurance for that it would be worth paying extra for it if you choose to

  7. #32
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    ORIGINAL: hippo-1216
    PilotFighter Could you please tell me were and who sells insurance to cover an airplane that i might do damage to ... I never heard of that I know your homeowners and auto do not offer that.. it only offers for personal and property damage....NOT ANOTHER AIRPLANE.
    your homeowners liability insurance likely covers damage that you do to other people and their personal property. a model airplane is someone's personal property. you can definitely purchase an overall (umbrella) liability insurance policy that covers damage you cause to other people and their property.
    - Carrell

  8. #33
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    ok, what about the 18yo kid living in an apartment? also what do you do if someone doesn't have any insurance or means to pay?

  9. #34

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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane


    ORIGINAL: tocstrum

    .... Also what do you do if someone doesn't have any insurance or means to pay?
    Take them to small claims court, get a judgement and garnish their wages.

    Dude, now let it go.

  10. #35

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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    I was always under the impression that this was a gentleman's sport and the edict was if there was a mid air both men ask if they can do anything for the other and both will say no, thats the way it goes. If I step on a guys wing by accident, I would expect to make things right. I also know that to put my self in a position of stepping on a jet wing is stupid so I have 3 ft rule; I dont get closer than 3 ft unless asked. In the air, I personally stay down when the jets are up because who wants to feel that bad after a midair, but the jet guys also have to remember that it is their decision to risk a $10,000 plane and sticking it up with a bunch of trainers flying around is not good judgment either. When I was 12, I learned to fly; my mom said, "If something happens, you dont get to cry about it. Your hanging out with men."

  11. #36
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    "Too bad", "sorry dude" , I can't pay for that".

    Good luck making it to your car.
    ME: \"I need a good rate down to one three thousand\". EXPRESS: \"Roger, we\'\'re coming down like a Bonanza full of doctors\".

  12. #37

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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    Know that was a great statment ...GOOD LUCK MAKING IT TO THE CAR What would you do attack him hold him down and take the money out of his pocket..And the next thing you know you,ll be charged with assault ,sued for damages Yea that was a smart thing to do But you got your plane fixed know dont you feel good

  13. #38
    Scott Geller's Avatar
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane


    ORIGINAL: BillyGoat


    ORIGINAL: tocstrum

    .... Also what do you do if someone doesn't have any insurance or means to pay?
    Take them to small claims court, get a judgement and garnish their wages.

    Dude, now let it go.

    Whoa! Hold on - this is the whole point of this discussion ..... Now we're taking a hobby that is supposed to be relaxing, light hearted and fun and turning it into court, judgements and wage garnishments?? When I take my one of my $5k yaks out I am fully prepared to lose it (not that I want to but it is part of the hobby; things happen). It sounds like you and Pilot are flying things that may be out of your comfort zone to lose. This is the whole question? Is this a hobby for fun, enjoyment and fellowship or are we going to turn it into a free for all for trial lawyers?? If you can't afford to lose it; keep it in the trailer.

  14. #39
    Scott Geller's Avatar
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    I've also heard of a case where some cry-baby lost a plane that he couldn't afford to lose and decides he's going to sue. First thing the lawyer does is see how many people he can name in the suit; land owner (the state) gets dragged into court and guess who didn't their lease renewed?? This is how we lose fields guys; tough talk sounds good, but this topic has to be examined closely. Now nothing stops the person at faulty from stepping up and doing the right thing, but it's when you have the expectation for compensation that things get complicated you have to have a way of enforcing it.

  15. #40
    TexasAirBoss's Avatar
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    So its completely unreasonable for you to spend 58 dollars for liabilty insurance for you models ? If you destroy someone's property of injure them or their family then thats just their bad luck ? You don't care about them or their property, but if they lay one finger on you then you call the cops ?

    I dont' believe any of this. I don't believe that your really fly models. I think this has all been one big troll. You got me, I fell for it.

    Peace out.
    ME: \"I need a good rate down to one three thousand\". EXPRESS: \"Roger, we\'\'re coming down like a Bonanza full of doctors\".

  16. #41

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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

  17. #42
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    Just curious, I've seen guys at our club who have landed and hit the prop, stopping the aircraft in the middle of the runway. While walking to retreve their airplane another guys calls out "dead stick", so he has priority to land right? What if he hits the airplane that is dead on the field? Would it be an unfortunate accident and basically no fault, or should the dead stick pilot landed it in the weeds off the runway to avoid the possible crash?

    Lucky for the aircraft on the field the dead stick pilot was good, and was able to stay to the far edge of the runway.
    Experience is something you aquire after you need it!

  18. #43

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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    StikDude, my .02 cents; that would fall under the catagory of "unfortunate accident and basically no fault". Thats a mid air that happend very VERY close to the ground.

  19. #44

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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    Pilotfighter you don,t get it Yes i am concerned if i hurt anyone or there property and i have insurance for that through AMA and my owne insurance... The problem i see is that if you hit another model airplane at your field with your owne model airplane as far as i know from what i have been told by manny people there is no insurance that you can put in a claim to not ama, home owners, or auto to pay for the other plane YES i know that you will say that its there personal property but its the circumstanceas to what happend, two models flying or one on the ground it is a possiblity that they will crash it happens ..So i guess if this were to happen to us we all should hope that the person who causes the crash will man up and do the right thing But that may not always be the case.. So

  20. #45
    Scott Geller's Avatar
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    You'll notice that instead of PilotFighter having a reasonable discussion about this topic, he immediately came off like a hard ass putting everyone on the defensive ... but then when the valid arguments are made he has no answers ... typical. You'll also notice he has no regard for anyone but himself and could not care less about how his litigious actions effect his club and it's members. Let's try to get back to the real world where no one is keeping 20 grand in cash in their pockets and people that don't have homeowners or car insurance still fly models at our club's field with everyone else. :-)



  21. #46
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    Hippo is right. After asking some experts on the matter, the AMA insurance will not cover you. Document 500-L , paragraph S , on page 8 specifically excludes one model airplane hitting another model airplane.

    So, that leaves homeowners insurance, which may not cover the situation, your own conscience, and the attitude of the injured party.
    ME: \"I need a good rate down to one three thousand\". EXPRESS: \"Roger, we\'\'re coming down like a Bonanza full of doctors\".

  22. #47

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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    Nice story but you got the wrong name....It was Robert Hinson not Ronald Hinson

  23. #48

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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane


    ORIGINAL: TFF

    , "If something happens, you dont get to cry about it. Your hanging out with men."
    Best quote ever!!!

  24. #49

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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    If I am waiting to taxi out to the runway and another pilot is taxing in from his flight then I hold my plane until the incoming pilot has passed me...I am not worried about his plane so much as I am of hitting him...In this case it seems to be solved the foamy was paid for

  25. #50
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    RE: Who is responsible for your plane

    "or they should keep $5k, $10k or $20k in cash on the side just in case? "

    LOL. Its not the plane I worry about paying for, it's the person I hit that sues me.

    Les


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