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Who is responsible for your plane

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Old 03-28-2009, 06:00 PM
  #1
hippo-1216
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Default Who is responsible for your plane

I have a question to put out there If you are responsible for a crash midair or on the ground are you expected to pay for damages or replace the other pilots plane . I know the right thing to do is to pay but at our field we had situation that two planes got together one was damaged beyond repair The pilot that hit the plane on the ground paid to replace the plane ...But there was a number of members that think it was an accident and that he should not have had to pay... What do you guys think and has anyone else had this same thing happen at there feild
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Old 03-28-2009, 06:25 PM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

hippo-1216,

At our field if a mid-air happens or a crash that was due to radio interference beyound your control I don't think that your are responsible for the other plane but most of the time things are worked out between the parties involved. Now, if you are flying behind the line are erratic or it's just plan carelessness then yes, you are responsible for the damage. I remember years ago there was a fellow that came to our field and was flying a new pattern plane. He was practicing for a contest coming up the following weekend and someone turned on their radio in the parking lot that was on the same channel and his plane went down. The club wrote the guy a check with no questions ask.
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Old 03-28-2009, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

Your question is too generic. You need to describe the actual situation.
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Old 03-28-2009, 07:54 PM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

IMHO if a pilot hits a parked plane he is responsiblefor the damage REGARDLESS of the reason. Insurance will often cover this case.

Midairs are another matter. Unless the club has a clearly defined and enforced circuit rule and the pilot is flying a contrary circuit WITHOUT announcing his intention clearly AND received an acknowledgement from all other pilots flying at the time then I then I think it is just one of these things.

My pet hate is flying a big noisy slow scale model with a stealth jet foamie in the air at the same time.
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:50 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

Well, mid-airs may be shared fault by both pilots or the fault of a single pilot, ( depends on the situation). But if someone hits a parked airplane, the plane in motion is obviously to blame.

It is generally custom to pay for someones' property if you damage it.

Radio interference ? I haven't had that in nearly 15 years, and even then it was a very brief hit. I haven't lost an airplane to interference since the early 1980's. Interference is not common anymore. Loss of control is generally from flying damaged equipment. IF that is the case, then the crash is from negligence. If you damage someone elses property because you are negligent, then you should pay for their equipment.

You should conduct a range check of your radio and insure it is working properly. If you fail to perform a range check and then you experience a true failure and damage someone's property, then you were negligent and should compensate the person for damaging their property.

Some good old souls may have pity on the pilot that has crashed and accept an apology alone without any payment. But its no foul if they dont' decline compensation.

Its rather strange that you should need to ask.
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Old 03-29-2009, 07:27 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

Quote:
ORIGINAL: carrellh

Your question is too generic. You need to describe the actual situation.
What happend was a small foam plane was taxiing back to the pits whan a larger 90 size bi-plane waiting to take the field suddenly shot across the field and hit the foam plane The pilot of the foam plane realy made a scene as to what happend . The other pilot did offer to replace the plane and did. The cost of the foam plane was about 140.00 not a big deal but what if it were a 7000.00 dollar jet a lot of people would not be able to pay that . So what can you do when the pilot that caused the crash says to bad i cant afford that sorry...
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Old 03-29-2009, 07:43 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

Sounds like the fellow with the biplane should have been holding on to it while waiting. Yes he should pay for the other plane. As for a mid air, they happen. Unless some one was not following the established flight pattern, or violating the rules of the field, it just happened and as they say, it would be a no fault accident. Good Luck, Dave
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Old 03-29-2009, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

Unless there was a major radio malfunction, planes do not suddenly shoot across the field on their own. The biplane owner would need to pay up regardless of price. I usually do not have a lot of 'excess' funds available, so, if I destroyed someone's high dollar model it would take me a while to pay for it.
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:34 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

Being that it is sometimes tough to determine fault there should without a doubt be a "no fault" rule; don't put a model out there that you are not willing to lose BUT, I'd like to think in most cases a person who is at fault would "man up" and pay for damages they he/she caused. Maybe that is wishful thinking, lol
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:52 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

Just wondering, is the guy with the bipe claiming he had no radio control of the plane at the time of the accident? If so was a reason established?
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Old 03-29-2009, 11:17 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

Billygoat, if your question was directed to me, I have no idea. The original poster would need to supply that info.
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Old 03-29-2009, 02:47 PM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

From my understanding the pilot with the bi-plane hit his throttle by acciedent just enough for his plane to launch into the foam plane as he past in front of him
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Old 03-29-2009, 06:01 PM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane


Quote:
ORIGINAL: hippo-1216

Quote:
ORIGINAL: carrellh

Your question is too generic. You need to describe the actual situation.
What happend was a small foam plane was taxiing back to the pits whan a larger 90 size bi-plane waiting to take the field suddenly shot across the field and hit the foam plane The pilot of the foam plane realy made a scene as to what happend . The other pilot did offer to replace the plane and did. The cost of the foam plane was about 140.00 not a big deal but what if it were a 7000.00 dollar jet a lot of people would not be able to pay that . So what can you do when the pilot that caused the crash says to bad i cant afford that sorry...
Am I the only one thinking that must have looked really cool? It sounds like the guy at fault owned up to his mistake right away, and there was no real problem.

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Old 03-29-2009, 06:15 PM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

I saw it and it was very cool (and very funny because noone was hurt) There is no dispute in this instance, the biplane owner took full responsibility and bought the person a new plane willingly; the question is should there have been an expectation of compensation and are we setting a presidence if this happens again in the future (perhaps it wont be a $200 foamy but a $7k jet)?
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:09 PM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

What child thinks its OK to destroy another persons property and not pay for it ?

Yes, if you destroy a $20K Jet or a $70k BMW, you bettter expect to pay for it. This is not some new precedent, but the law of the land. Welcome to America. Where are you from ?
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:18 PM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

The pilot is in control of the plane. What ever it hits, the pilot now owns. Just my thinking. If my plane hits another plane, on the ground, I now own two damaged planes. To me, even if I had ZERO control, complete radio failure, I still own both planes.

There was a spectacular mid air at the field. One plane just turned into balsa dust and covering strips. Looked like it exploded. The other lost one wing and tail on the same side. It did high speed rolls and spins into the pits. Took out 2 other planes. There were a lot of words and nice friendly words at very high volumes. There were club meetings about who was going to pay for what. The mid air was just an accident. Both planes were flying the pattern. One was a fast over powered plane sort of like a Sig Cougar and the other was a trainer just cruising along. Neither pilot saw each other until the trainer turned to confetti.

Never did find out how that ended. I have lost planes to others. Guy turned his radio on, mine went down. He paid. I had a trainer taken out. He went through my trainer with his 90 sized pattern plane. He paid. I hit a plane with my 0.09 powered Mach None. It took out his Smoothy. I built him a new one.

Planes do not last forever, they also do not land well all the time, but they all land.


Dru.
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:26 PM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

Why not set up a insurance fund at your specific club for these type of incidents? Have a claims committee and add a few bucks on each months/years dues to pay for such incidents if you have Giant scale and Jet traffic at your club. Like a non/underinsured motorist policy you have with your vehicle. Someone hits you with no or low insurance you still recover your losses. These types of incidents don't happen often at the field so the "fee" wouldn't be much, but they do happen and most guys can't shell out that kind of coin.

We have a gentlemanly code of honor where I fly like what has been said here. If it was your fault then pay up, but nobody has anything to expensive at our club. With Giant and Jet stuff I would be more nervous about the "Oh $%&#" that can happen.
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:36 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

We had an incident at our field where one guy was flying a foamy low to the runway and another guy with a 50cc plane called out "landing". The foamy flyer didnt hear it and just before the 50cc plane touched down it got the foamy dead on, sounded like the prop hit a paper bag and the foamy turned into bits on contact, it was pretty funny.

Good thing is, the motor, radio and servo's of the foamy survived. While the small homebuilt foamy was a nice plane, it didnt take too much for him to build a new one.
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:37 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane


Quote:
ORIGINAL: PilotFighter

What child thinks its OK to destroy another persons property and not pay for it ?

Yes, if you destroy a $20K Jet or a $70k BMW, you bettter expect to pay for it. This is not some new precedent, but the law of the land. Welcome to America. Where are you from ?

That's what my daddy taught me. Before I can remember the situation, my mother told me a story about my dad and a friend racing their speedboats on a lake called "Keuka Lake", "Crooked Lake" in Senaca Indian. My dad had a steel hulled boat made by Mullens. My dad's friend had a Chris Craft made of Phillipene mahogany. My dad's friend's boat ran out of gas and stopped directly in the path of my father's boat. The Chris Craft went to the bottom in two pieces. No one was hurt. Both idiots were drunker than skunks (sorry dad). My father offered to replace his friend's boat. The gentleman was Ronald Hinson who owned a trucking firm, Penn Yan Express, and had more money than God. He declined my father's offer. These are my values.

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Old 03-30-2009, 08:08 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

Quote:
ORIGINAL: carrellh

Billygoat, if your question was directed to me, I have no idea. The original poster would need to supply that info.
My question was directed to the OP, I used the quick reply and your name was added to the "reply to". I actaully hate that feature of RCU, its constantly causing confusion like this.


Back to the original question. Since the pilot of the bipe "accidentallly" advanced the throttle and took out the foamy... IMHO no question he bought a plane.


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Old 03-30-2009, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: tocstrum

... the question is should there have been an expectation of compensation and are we setting a presidence if this happens again in the future (perhaps it wont be a $200 foamy but a $7k jet)?

If the subject of the story was a $7k jet instead of a foamy, we certainly wouldn’t be talking a destroyed airplane. The worst you could expect would be several prop strikes. It certainly wouldn’t be Rottweiler mauling a Toy Poodle like it did with the foamy.
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Old 03-30-2009, 09:13 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

First of all PilotFighter, I'm not saying that he should not have replaced the plane. I would have replaced it without question. But when you drive a $70k BMW on the road, YOU have insurance on it so if there is a loss its covered regardless of who can or cannot pay. I haven't seen any insurance companies looking to sell coverage for my Yak yet ... so where are you from? lol
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: tocstrum

First of all PilotFighter, I'm not saying that he should not have replaced the plane. I would have replaced it without question. But when you drive a $70k BMW on the road, YOU have insurance on it so if there is a loss its covered regardless of who can or cannot pay. I haven't seen any insurance companies looking to sell coverage for my Yak yet ... so where are you from? lol
So, if I destroy something, as long as its something that I can't personally afford, then I should assume that I'm not expected to pay for it ?

YOU have insurance also. And you have responsibilty also. Taking something away from a person and thinking its not your problem because they earn more or work harder is not a value, its a symptom of a sociopath.

If you destroy a 70k BMW, yes the owners uninsured policy will cover it ( assuming the owner purchased that option). But then the insurance company will very likely come after you and sue you to recoup. So you still will pay. But the car owner doesn't need to get involved becasue he purchased the uninsured driver option. The car owner doesn't need to wait on you and he can have his car repaired or replaced. He goes on with his life, unhindered by a deadbeat.

Insurance for your Yak ? Well, no probably not if you crash it. But if you injure someone or damage their property, there is absolutely insurance for that. Your homeowners and the AMA insurance covers you specifically for this. And if thats not enough, you can purchase an unbrella policy option that will give you an additional 1 million dollars in coverage.

If you have any assets at all, you should consider protecting them form the liability of this hobby. If you have the ability to work, or if you have any income or the potential for income, you should protect yourself from the liabilty of this hobby.

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Old 03-30-2009, 10:21 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane

Hi!"
If two planes crash in the air (mid air crash) and no pilot is to blame , Then I think it's a world wide acceptance that no one has to pay anything regardless of the value of the airplanes. Because that's the nature of flying airplanes, you take a risk.
If on the other hand an airplane taxi into another airplane in the pits or on the landing strip , then I find it appropriate to pay!
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:59 AM
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Default RE: Who is responsible for your plane


Quote:
ORIGINAL: PilotFighter



So, if I destroy something, as long as its something that I can't personally afford, then I should assume that I'm not expected to pay for it ?



I got news for you Pilot, a person driving a Lamborghini cannot reasonably expect an average joe to pony up a million dollars if there is an accident. thats why they have insurance.
Bottom line, if you have a model that you are not willing to lose, then you should not put it out there at risk.
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