Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
10-17-2009, 10:25 PM
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Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
I purchased a 4-stroke engine and looked at the "exploded view" of the engine in the instruction manual. I noticed that the engine doesn't have a cylinder liner.
Are there any disadvantages to not having a cylinder liner?
Are there any disadvantages to not having a cylinder liner?
10-18-2009, 02:14 AM
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RE: Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
The modern engines NO. There are some that will say YES. I have been flying Satio engines since the 80's and never had one fail on the cylinder lining. Most modern 4strokers don't use cylinder liners anymore and direct hard chrome the alloy cylinder.
Cheers
Cheers
10-18-2009, 10:16 AM
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RE: Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
ORIGINAL: The Ghost
The modern engines NO. There are some that will say YES. I have been flying Satio engines since the 80's and never had one fail on the cylinder lining. Most modern 4strokers don't use cylinder liners anymore and direct hard chrome the alloy cylinder.
Cheers
The modern engines NO. There are some that will say YES. I have been flying Satio engines since the 80's and never had one fail on the cylinder lining. Most modern 4strokers don't use cylinder liners anymore and direct hard chrome the alloy cylinder.
Cheers
Without a cylinder liner, what happens? Are you screwed? You'd have to replace the engine block!
(and actually, OS 4-strokes have cylinder liners. YS 4-strokes don't).
10-18-2009, 11:35 AM
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RE: Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
Pretty hard to run a 4 stroke by running too lean as they will throw the prop off & quit running . I have been running them since they first came out & have not ruined a cylinder sleeve or ones w/ no sleeve yet . All sizes & all makes . You won't have any trouble ,just use a tach when you set the high speed needle & when it starts to sag from being too lean just back the needle off a couple hundred RPM.
Many older two strokes had the cylinders with the fins machined right on them & they did Ok for many years on fuel W/ castor oil . The K&B Sportster series has no sleeve just the aluminum cylinder . I have a Sportster .28 with over 20 gallons of fuel through it & have never touched it . Good luck , MAX H.
Many older two strokes had the cylinders with the fins machined right on them & they did Ok for many years on fuel W/ castor oil . The K&B Sportster series has no sleeve just the aluminum cylinder . I have a Sportster .28 with over 20 gallons of fuel through it & have never touched it . Good luck , MAX H.
10-18-2009, 02:51 PM
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RE: Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
ORIGINAL: big max 1935
Pretty hard to run a 4 stroke by running too lean as they will throw the prop off & quit running . I have been running them since they first came out & have not ruined a cylinder sleeve or ones w/ no sleeve yet . All sizes & all makes . You won't have any trouble ,just use a tach when you set the high speed needle & when it starts to sag from being too lean just back the needle off a couple hundred RPM.
Many older two strokes had the cylinders with the fins machined right on them & they did Ok for many years on fuel W/ castor oil . The K&B Sportster series has no sleeve just the aluminum cylinder . I have a Sportster .28 with over 20 gallons of fuel through it & have never touched it . Good luck , MAX H.
Pretty hard to run a 4 stroke by running too lean as they will throw the prop off & quit running . I have been running them since they first came out & have not ruined a cylinder sleeve or ones w/ no sleeve yet . All sizes & all makes . You won't have any trouble ,just use a tach when you set the high speed needle & when it starts to sag from being too lean just back the needle off a couple hundred RPM.
Many older two strokes had the cylinders with the fins machined right on them & they did Ok for many years on fuel W/ castor oil . The K&B Sportster series has no sleeve just the aluminum cylinder . I have a Sportster .28 with over 20 gallons of fuel through it & have never touched it . Good luck , MAX H.
Pretty hard, yes. Impossible, far from it. Personally, it seems reasonable to have an engine where you can easily (and inexpensively) replace the damaged parts.
So let me ask: why wouldn't a manufacturer make an engine with a cylinder liner? To my knowledge, most OS engines have them.
10-18-2009, 03:28 PM
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RE: Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
why wouldn't a manufacturer make an engine with a cylinder liner?
What happens if you damage the engine, such as from running it too lean.
Pretty hard to run a 4 stroke by running too lean as they will throw the prop off & quit running
Pretty hard to run a 4 stroke by running too lean as they will throw the prop off & quit running
Cheers
10-18-2009, 03:35 PM
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RE: Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
why wouldn't a manufacturer make an engine with a cylinder liner?
What happens if you damage the engine, such as from running it too lean.
Pretty hard to run a 4 stroke by running too lean as they will throw the prop off & quit running
Pretty hard, yes. Impossible, far from it.
Pretty hard to run a 4 stroke by running too lean as they will throw the prop off & quit running
Pretty hard, yes. Impossible, far from it.
Cheers
10-18-2009, 05:55 PM
#8
RE: Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
So let me ask: why wouldn't a manufacturer make an engine with a cylinder liner? To my knowledge, most OS engines have them.
Automotive engines with liners are considered "Heavy Duty". Lots of Diesel truck & industrial & marine engines have replaceable liners. They're run lots of miles (or hours), and most see a rebuild or two before being scrapped. That makes it economically feasible for the dealer to keep liner kits in stock.
I'd guess that the huge majority of model airplane engines never see a liner replacement, or the need. Why have liners in stock if you can't sell them? Why manufacture with a liner, when you can sell engines that never see a rebuild?
Now, if we flew with the same engine, day after day, and used inadequate lubricants, maybe we'd wear out more engines. The numbers say we're not going that way, though.
Best wishes,
Dave Olson
10-18-2009, 06:28 PM
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RE: Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
ORIGINAL: Scar
Yes, cost.
Automotive engines with liners are considered ''Heavy Duty''. Lots of Diesel truck & industrial & marine engines have replaceable liners. They're run lots of miles (or hours), and most see a rebuild or two before being scrapped. That makes it economically feasible for the dealer to keep liner kits in stock.
I'd guess that the huge majority of model airplane engines never see a liner replacement, or the need. Why have liners in stock if you can't sell them? Why manufacture with a liner, when you can sell engines that never see a rebuild?
Now, if we flew with the same engine, day after day, and used inadequate lubricants, maybe we'd wear out more engines. The numbers say we're not going that way, though.
Best wishes,
Dave Olson
So let me ask: why wouldn't a manufacturer make an engine with a cylinder liner? To my knowledge, most OS engines have them.
Automotive engines with liners are considered ''Heavy Duty''. Lots of Diesel truck & industrial & marine engines have replaceable liners. They're run lots of miles (or hours), and most see a rebuild or two before being scrapped. That makes it economically feasible for the dealer to keep liner kits in stock.
I'd guess that the huge majority of model airplane engines never see a liner replacement, or the need. Why have liners in stock if you can't sell them? Why manufacture with a liner, when you can sell engines that never see a rebuild?
Now, if we flew with the same engine, day after day, and used inadequate lubricants, maybe we'd wear out more engines. The numbers say we're not going that way, though.
Best wishes,
Dave Olson
I see what you're saying, however, it seems to me that cylinder liners are very commonplace. In fact, I think all O.S. engines have them! As for YS engines, I don't know about their two-strokes, but most of their 4-strokes have cylinder liners, while a few don't.
Given the fact that they are so commonplace, I'm not so sure that reducing costs is a reason for leaving them out. For example, the YS 63S doesn't use a cylinder liner, yet it's a $300 4-stroke engine!
10-18-2009, 07:05 PM
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RE: Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
Most 2 stroke glow engines have liners as its easer to manifacture(porting, quality control, no ring, ect). Liner less are cheaper to manifacture(less parts, machining ect) and they are a tad lighter(alloy lighter than brass or steel). There is no magic anwser that you are looking for. If you don't like engines with out a liner DON"T BUY THEM. It is the way they are going with a lot of things, replace rather than repair. A lot of car manifactures are looking at the same thing, direct hard chrome plating in the alloy blocks. Diesel engines are designed to run for a lot more hours as described above also a lot more $$$$ to buy.
Cheers
Cheers
10-18-2009, 07:48 PM
#11
RE: Any disadvantages to engines without cylinder liners?
Saito also has the lightest 4 strokes around. They are excellent running and popular engines. The 3D guys love the .82s, which are powerful and weigh no more than a .46-.55 2-stroke.
Virtually all of the small industrial engines have plated jugs and do not have a liner. Check out the RC gassers. See if you can find one with a liner.
The reason you see most smaller 2-strokes with a liner is that they are ABC type design. The thermal expansion of the plated brass sleeve and the silicon doped aluminum piston is what makes this design work.
Virtually all of the small industrial engines have plated jugs and do not have a liner. Check out the RC gassers. See if you can find one with a liner.
The reason you see most smaller 2-strokes with a liner is that they are ABC type design. The thermal expansion of the plated brass sleeve and the silicon doped aluminum piston is what makes this design work.
