brianjskora

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Hey Guys, I've been into RC cars since I was a kid, and still use them today. Recently when helping clean my grandmothers old basement, I came across this RC plane that my grandfather had used in the 70s or 80s. Its probably not something I will fly, because it needs alot of parts, and I wouldnt want to crash it, but now I am interested in getting a starter plane to learn about them.

I think its made of balsa wood, and wrapped, and it has an enya 60 nitro motor. All the linkages are in place, tail fin, front tire, etc, but no servos. No exhaust, and probably alot of other missing items.

Just thought it see if anyone recognizes it or remembers one like it! What a great find though!

Sandmann_AU

Great find! Assuming it's still straight I'd be tempted to fly it, though getting a trainer to start with is the best way of extending the life of your grandpa's plane significantly. I'm not sure about your Enya, but "back in the day" many engines didn't have silencers, the exhaust just ported directly to the atmosphere. They only became common when noise pollution laws started impacting us. You can probably find a spring or strap mounted exhaust or similar to fit it if you wanted to put it in the air - I know that Bisson makes universal exhausts. It's probably a good thing the servos are missing - you'd want to update them to something a little more current anyway, and not having a receiver gives you an excuse to get yourself a 2.4Ghz air system first up. The first t hing I'd be doing though (whether you fly it or not) is see if the engine turns freely & has compression. If not, pull it down for a rebuild, if so fire that baby up! You might want to look at replacing that prop first though - it looks like an old plastic one and if so it's probably become quite brittle.

Let us know what you decide and how it goes.

brianjskora

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Thanks for the advice sandmann-

I took a picture to show you the exhaust, and it actually doesnt have and screw holes which I am used to seeing which leads me to believe you are right about no silencer. I never wouldve thought that. The picture really shows the age with the dust haha! There is good compression, actually feels great, and the motor does turn smoothly, hopefully it was well oiled when it went away. I do notice the carb is stuck though, but i think a little TLC may get it back in action. Im going to tear it apart tonight or tomorrow, and then I might get some fuel and see what happens.

- You are also right about the plastic prop. It actually looks very warped to me. I remember seeing wooden ones around the basement, Ill have to get them next time I am there. Too bad I am in VA and the basement is in NY. How do you put gas in a plane? it has two vent holes, which im assuming you feed gas in one, and when its full it will come out the other? It will still be awhile before i get to that point, but just curious.

When I try it, Im assuming i can take the prop off? Quite honestly, with no experience, that thing scares the crap out of me just looking at it. its like a mini lawnmower on its side!

2.4 will be the way to go for sure, is there a basic 2.4 plane set up what comes with generic servos that will work, or is a plane setup very specific.

Thanks again for the help/advice/feedback

Sandmann_AU

Not surprising - fuel in those days was about 15% castor oil (I still use a little castor) and it you leave it long enough it turns into varnish and sticks things together. Soaking the carb in some isopropol alcohol or even new fuel will probably free it up. Don't use petroleum based things like WD40 to do it or you'll kill the rubber seals.

Wood props are nice and light (again assuming not warped with age) but they break easilly when they hit the ground. For a beginner flier I'd suggest a nylon (aka glass filled nylon) prop as they're a little more forgiving. Your local hobby shop should have heaps of them, or you can get them from Ebay. Master Airscrew props, while not being the greatest performers, are cheap and tough, great for beginners.

Plane tanks have either 2 or 3 lines... 1 line goes to the carb, one is a breather that on modern engines goes to a nipple on the exhaust to pressurise the tank (great for getting fuel to the engine while you're pointing straight up!), and the optional 3rd line is a dedicated filler. To fill a 2 line tank you remove the line from the carb and pump into it. Remove the line from the exhaust (where fitted) and when the tank's full it'll overflow there. Don't confuse the lines as the carb line has a weighted fuel pickup (called a clunk) inside the tank to handle inverted planes etc. The breather line should be bent up near the top of the tank, or you can only 1/2 fill it.

You'll want to put new silicon line inside the tank too, and pressure test it. Easiest way to do this is to put some fuel line on one tank outlet and cover the 2nd with your finger, then suck as much air out as you can so the sides of the tank flex in a little (make sure there's no fuel in there first! [:'(]), then carefully connect the fuel line to the second outlet without losing too much vacuum and leave it overnight. If the vacuum's still there in the morning it's good to go.

The prop needs to be in place for the engine to run. Basically you fuel the tank, connect the glow plug to the battery, and spin the prop using either a convenient stick (often with a bit of soft rubber/plastic so you don't ding up the prop) or with a starter motor. Don't use your fingers - as you observed props are good at chewing up fingers. Make sure the prop nut is on TIGHT, never reach around/over a running prop, and other than starting the engine you do everything to the engine from behind the prop (in case it spins off and collects you in the face). Oh btw, engines spin ainti-clockwise when viewed from the front.

Plane servos are universal, though some connectors (Futaba springs to mind) won't fit into some receivers (pretty much any brand other than Futaba) without minor modification. You'll find as many opinions on which is the best 2.4ghz air system around as there are people flying rc planes. Not sure if your plane has ailerons or not - if not then it's a 3 channel plane (elevators, rudder, throttle). Plane radios start at 4 channel ones, though the smallest 2.4ghz one I've seen is a 5 channel. With planes up to 7 channels are frequently used (and radios go up to at least 12 channels for more complex models) so if you think you'll be flying a while it's a it's a good idea to start with a 7 channel radio. I prefer Spektrum (which is compatible with the more expensive JR products) and in that brand I'd recommend the DX7 which you can get in a "starter kit" that comprises 7 channel Tx, 4 digital servos, Tx and Rx batteries, charger, switch harness, and 7 channel Rx. There's as many people who favour Futaba radios over Spektrum, and a lot of people like Airtronics too (I've never seen one - they don't get imported into Australia as far as I know). Air Tx's have 2 common setups for stick position... I believe it's mode 1 that has the throttle on right and the elevators on the left, and mode 2 that's the other way round (both have ailerons on right, and rudder on left). In the USA mode 2's usually used, here it's mode 1. Get whatever is used locally to you.

Best of luck.. keep us informed.

brianjskora

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Great info, Thanks a ton.
The fuel tank does have 3 lines, one to the motor, and two others out opposite sides of the plane.

Ill get the carb soaking, and start working on the motor. I may try to find an extra one on ebay for spare parts too, as I saw one sell tonight for $35!

I do have ailerons, so I will need 4+ channels. It looks like there is a missing tray in the plane that wouldve held the servos. Im thinking I will have to go custom here. What exactly are the 7 channels used for? I dont know the names well, but i know throttle, rear elevator, rear rudder, and the ailerons. What are the other 3 you suggeted for?

Wife walked in the room, took a deep breath and left. haha!

ChuckW

One thing you may want to do is visit a local RC club. You can find one by entering your zip code here: http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx

You'll find plenty of people there to help you out with getting this one in flying shape plus learning to fly on a trainer airplane. Some of the more senior members may even remember the specific kit or plans the airplane was built from and/or the engine.

One thing I would do is replace the fuel lines, including those in the tank. I imagine they would be in pretty bad shape after sitting for so long.

It looks like the plane has a full cowl, with a top half that screws on. Did you happen to find that part too? If not, it likely wouldn't be too hard to make a new one.

This particular airplane looks like you only need a minimum 4-channel radio. Radios with more channels come in handy as you advance into more complex planes with flaps, retractable landing gear, more servos, etc. What you buy really depends on your plans for the hobby. If you are hooked and know you will advance then it might be wise to invest in a radio that will grow with you. Just be careful that to don't get too much radio and have to learn all sorts of complicated stuff to operate it when you really need to concentrate on the basics of learning to fly.

A couple RCU members also put together a good site for beginners: www.gettingairborne.com

I think it would be great if you get your Grandfathers airplane in the air again. Too many of these are sold at garage sales or tossed out because the family just has no interest.

brianjskora

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Yea I would love to find some locals that I could show the plane to and talk to the hobby about. I did fine the engine cowl, it is broken, but its all there so I will get some glue and get it back together.

Ill check out your suggested websites.

Tearing everthing down now. Thanks for all the advice so far. This plane definately wont be sold at any yard sale!

brianjskora

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engine tear down went well. All parts are back in working order. Probably need some glow plugs, new gas lines, possibly a new tank, air filter, prop, and exhaust to see if she runs. Oh yea and fuel.

ChuckW

No air filter needed on airplanes unless you just happen to operate in a really bad area with an unusually dusty runway or something. The air up there is relatively clean so they don't need filters like cars do.

proptop

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That airplane looks kinda like a Navion...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Navion

Sandmann_AU

With the cowl broken, the best thing you can do with it is to glue it together, wrap it in saran wrap or similar, and use it as a mould for a new fibreglass one. I've done a bit of glassing and it's really not difficult.

As for why you'd want more than 4 channels, as ChuckW pointed out flaps and retractable landing gear are the two obvious ones. Another one is if you decide to use separate servos for the ailerons and set them up with different throws - this is called aileron differential and it's where the amount each aileron travels upwards is different to the amount they move down and is done to avoid something called "adverse yaw" where using the ailerons to bank right will also cause the plane to yaw (rotate around its vertical axis) to the left. Some planes (notably scale models) have "split elevators" where the elevator is two separate moving parts rather than a single slab. Many people will use two push-rods connected to a single servo through various methods but due to geometry this leads to a difference in travel between the elevator halves - a more accurate way is to use two servos which can either have a Y adapter (like a double adapter for servos) or connected to two Rx channels and mixed together. Other uses for extra channels get a little more exotic and inlude things like bomb or candy drops, twin engine aircraft throttles, camera activation, air brakes, wheel brakes, on-board lighting, smoke generation, on board glow drivers, proportionally adjustable propellors etc. There's always an interesting way to make use of a spare channel. An aircraft I'm building at the moment (an F4U Corsair) uses two channels for landing gear, as the main gear is pneumatic and the tail gear is mechanical and the two systems require different travels for the two servos.

Regarding the servo tray - most hobby shops (www.towerhobbies.com is a decent online one btw) sell pre-made servo trays but I've found it's just as easy to make one out of 2-3mm plywood and cut holes in it with a dremel & cutting disk.

You mention your tank has a 3rd line... don't forget you'll need a fuel-proof plug for it when you're not filling the tank. You'll need a short (1" should do" piece of copper/brass/aluminium tube the same size as the ones in your tank to connect your fuel jug/pump to your plane's fill line. Hobby shops generally list them as "fuel dots". While you're buying that you should probably pick up a fuel filter too, they're only a couple of bucks and can prevent a wreck. Get two, and put one on your line from the tank to the carb, and another on the fuel line in your fuel jug.

Regarding the glow plug - you're best off starting with a medium plug like an OS number 8. You'll need something to make it glow too, though you probably have a glow driver already from your cars.

TFF

The plane looks like a Kwik Fli III to me with a custom canopy and removed fin in front of the rudder, like said before to look like a Navion. http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/patte...iarticlesm.pdf
Cool airplane. The engine has the exhaust butterfly to help low throttle by keeping the glow plug warm. Without a muffler you need to use it, but it will be loud. Enya had a strap on muffler that could be used. It is a good engine; I have one on an Ugly Stick designed by Kraft also. It likes a 11X7 or 12X6 prop.

brianjskora

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Just and update, found a local club I am meeting with on the 23rd and they are going to start me on some trainers. Then I will get working on the classic!

Sandmann_AU

Well done... you show much wisdom, young padawan. It'd be worth taking your plane along too, and let them look over it. Chances are they'll see things you'd miss.

Enjoy your learning curve.

ChuckW

This is how it all starts... next thing you know there will be a garage full of airplanes, partially built airplanes, airplane parts, engines and the wife will be complaining you spend too much time at the flying field. You'll be watching full scale airplanes and thinking about the RC stick inputs as they make turns, daydreaming about flying at work and looking for the hobby shop in every new town you go to. There's no hobby like it in my opinion.

brianjskora

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Yea, Im pretty excited, I just got my signed up for the AMA, so I should be all set. Thanks for all the positive feedback!

ohnoucdat

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Where's Minn and his simpson pic, ah we have another one? HAve fun brianjskora, and gl with the wife

rc-sport

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Another lost soul takes the walk down the crooked path of Model Planes. may god have mercy on his soul

brianjskora

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what have i gotten myself into!?

ChuckW

You'll see.

rlipsett

I would replace the fuel tank because brass reacts with the fuel for airplanes and the bung has probably dried out anyway with age. the tank is only about 5 dollars at a lhs anyways and is cheaper then buying separate parts. replace all fuel lines

rc-sport

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muuhahahahahahahahahah.....you'll seeeeeeeeee

AA5BY

I agree that it looks like a Kwik Fly III. I had one and it also was powered by an Enya 60. If I recall correctly, there were three iterations of the Enya .60. The later two versions I think will have a II or III under the Enya name. I have version one and it has the exhaust baffle as yours does. I don't recall if all three versions had a baffle. I do know that the first version was not a very powerful engine, probably no more so than a modern .40-.45.

Yes, back in those days, muffers were often not used making the engines very loud. The baffle can be removed and a strap on muffler used as I did.

My Kwik Fly was built with mechanical servo actuated retracts and with the Enya had marginal power and when selling the plane the buyer didn't want the engine and put a much hotter .61 on it and it came alive and flew very well.

BTW, the Kwik Fly III had an interesting building technique. Provided was a cardboard that once put together made a cradle for the wing construction though I don't recall if the plan was then laid in the cradle or the cradle had the drawing on it. It is the only kit I've built that used a cardboard wing construction cradle like that.

If it is a Kwik Fly, the cowl and the canopy pictured are add ons as the cowl area of the Kwik Fly was part of the fueslage though if I recall, it did have a full spinner ring and the canopy was a simply bubble.