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Thread: Fox Engines


  1. #1

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    Fox Engines

    Hi; I have looked all over the web and I can't find any place to buy Fox .61 engines. It seams to me somebody would carry them, but I have yet to find them. This seams kind of strange a major engine manf. isn't carried by online hobby stores. Does anybody know where to buy Fox engines online. Thanks.......Jim

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    Fox Engines

    I guess the question is why would you want to buy a Fox? I have had several and a couple of good ones and several bad ones. Today there are so many great engines o the market why take a chance on a Fox?

    RCPAUL
    Gosh, model airplanes are not a matter of life and death - they are more important than that!

  3. #3

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    Fox

    I have had more than a few people tell me they like them and that they are good engines if properly broke in,last a long time and are more powerful than other engines of the same size. But then I have had people think they should be used for a paper weight. I just want one so I can make up my own mind. After all they have been in business since what 1946 I think.

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    Fox Engines

    I've flown with a lot of Fox engines, including the 60. The 60 and 74 are in the Eagle series and are made a little different than the other ones. The 60 is available ringed or abc. I have a 60 abc and it runs great. They have excellent service, you can call the factory and talk to the people who build, test, and repair them in Arkansas. How could this be considered taking a chance?
    www.foxmanufacturing.com
    There must be some internet companies that sell them, I got mine from a local dealer and I've bought some used ones at swap meets and through rcuniverse ads.

  5. #5
    dant-RCU's Avatar
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    Fox at Quantum

    Quantum Models - and it's a .60 not a .61. I have a lot of Fox Engines including 5 of the Eagle .74 engines (larger version of the .60). All of my Fox engines run well. Just follow the instructions. do not run over 10% nitro and use 18-20% oil with some castor.

    Here is a link:

    http://www2.mailordercentral.com/quantummodels/

    Dan
    Dan Taylor
    American Turf Flyers, Inc.
    Broken Arrow, OK
    (Somewhere near Tulsa)

  6. #6
    Ed_Moorman's Avatar
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    Fox Engines

    In a recent Model Airplane News issue there was a .61 size engine comparison test. Dave Gierke, the tester varied the fuel and plugs to get the best performance from the engines. The Fox came out on top. He used 5% nitro fuel and a Thunderbolt plug for the best results. Go figure.

    If you plan to run the Fox, you might want to get this issue and see how he ran it.
    Ed Moorman, AMA 553, Former R/C Report Fun Aerobatics Columnist. 76 and up to my old tricks!

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    Fox

    Thanks for the information ED, I will pick up a copy of the magazine...........Jim

  8. #8
    Clean's Avatar
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    Fox Engines

    Order it from the factory, BUT, call ahead and get the price, tell them you have an engine to trade in on it and it will be half suggested retail price. you can send them in an old beat up Cox .049 engine and they will sell you the Fox 61 for half price.

    Half Price. I just go to the factory and buy engines there for the same deal, but its only a day trip for me.

    Call em if you don't believe me, but it's true. Control line folks who run Fox 35's and the like know this.
    Intentional landings WITH a PBF are not
    the intentional design OF the PBF

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    Fox Engines

    About that 5% fuel, it's true, and I got it from the horses' mouth, Duke himself. I called one day at noon and caught him manning the phones so his girls could take a lunch break. Quiet a guy. Anywho I had called about a problem, and he asked me what fuel I used. Then he told me to use 5% especially where I live. He said they use 5% when running the new engines before tear down and cleaning and packing for shipment. I did and I've never used anything else. That was back in the late 80"s. He mailed the parts l needed and I got them in my P.O. Box 2 days later. Now that's service. He said "Send me a check when you get around to it." His wife ran the company after he died and she too passed away a short while back, but the company is still operating in the same great way as when they were there. I've always given them high marks all around. If you call for an engine, ask if it has the single needle carb. Fox has a two needle carb, but the single needle will be probably be more familair to you. You can check them out at their Web address, www.foxmanfacturing.com

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    Fox Engines

    I have used a number of Fox engines over the years and have had fine performance from all of them. The factory service is absolutely unsurpased.

    Oh-they are also made in the USA.

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    Fox Engines

    I have also flown the Fox Eagle. Their service is no doubt the best customer service I have ever had. I could write a book on their service. However the last E .74 ring did not measure up. I returned it 3 times and each time they returned it stating 11x8 prop,, 11,000 rpm all ok. It would die/dead stick all the time and this was with correct fuel setting. I used Fox Gold Star 5% fuel and Idle bar plugs w/11x8 prob. Still no luck. Finally lost the plane. I returned it to them and asked they keep the engine but let me know what they found wrong with it.. I never got a response. Hindsite. I should not have used 20% oil/ 100% castor as reco. I should have used 18% full syn w/ 2 oz of castor added. The plug should have been OS 8,, and I should allow for long rich break in. I think had I done this the engine might have been ok.. I believe the 20 % castor and rich mid range on the carb allowed castor to build up and kill the engine on throttle up. I no longer fly 2 strokes so I can't test this out, but I am sure others can. Have fun,, keep flying..

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    Fox Engines

    i have used fox engines since my controline days in the mid sixties and while they do not have the polish of the os they also did not have the price and if broken in properly/slowly last forever i am a fan of fox engines have 6 25's on my b-36

  13. #13
    Spaceclam's Avatar
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    Fox Engines

    if nobody carries them, that should tell you something...
    Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a Dark side, and it holds the universe together.

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    Fox Engines

    They don't carry many kits any more either, mostly arfs. That tells me the same thing. It depends on how much you enjoy following the crowd.

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    Fox Engines

    Originally posted by Spaceclam
    if nobody carries them, that should tell you something...
    They're just not part of the "Great Planes-OS-Futaba- Dynaflite-SuperTiger-Fuji-ect conglomorate happy family " that every hobby shop has to buy into.

    I have a 15 year old Fox45 rustbucket that I took out of gummed up storage- cleaned it up and it purrs!

  16. #16

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    Fox Engines

    Exactly right Tom. I suppose that Fox is not "in" with the follow-the-leader bunch, but they are fine performers.

    I must admit that I find it discouraging to walk into a "hobby shop" and find nothing but ready to fly toys.

  17. #17

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    Fox Engines

    I'm not an engine expert but have had some experience's with Fox R/C engines.

    If you can find someone that knows how to set them up, they are top notch performers. The first Fox R/C engine I bought seemed to be a real piece of junk - until someone that knew what they were doing set it up for me. This someone happened to be a Fox dealer - but he was not a hobby shop owner. Seems like Fox used to have some "dealers" that were just ordinary modelers - you didn't have to own a business to be a dealer. Don't know if it's still that way. Anyway, this guy knew instantly what my engine needed. If I remember correctly (and I admit it's been a few years back) my particular engine used the 2-needle carb. You had a needle for both low-speed and high-speed. My problem was in the mid-range. It would be "blubbery" in the mid-range even though low and high speeds seemed perfect. When he heard this, he immediately took the carb apart and made a scratch (with a needle file) on the rotating barrel in the carb. The scratch went from the middle of the opening through the barrel and about 1/3 way around. So when the barrel was closed (or nearly so) at idle, it allowed just the tiniest bit of additional air to be added to the mixture. As the barrel rotated, more additional air was allowed to enter the mix because of the scratch. I know this doesn't seem like it would be of any significance at all, but believe me it made all the difference in the world. It made that engine run totally perfect in all ranges. The scratch allowed just enough air to the mixture to cure the blubbering at the mid-range. By the way, you wouldn't even think about trying to make any settings until the engine was pretty well broken in.

    Fox's 2-needle system was a problem for a lot of folks (including myself). If I remember correctly, you were supposed to adjust the idle needle first. When you were satisfied with low speed performance, THEN you worked with the high-speed needle (for some reason, folks always seem to want to do it in reverse order). But often, with the 2-needle system, there would be problems with the midrange and the "scratch" on the rotating carb barrel seemed to cure it.

  18. #18
    Spaceclam's Avatar
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    Fox Engines

    you are supposed to do it high end first. when you get it set up right, bring it down to idle, waint about 1 second, and advancethe throttle as quick as you can. if it hesitates and is "blubbery" twards 3/4 throttle, it is too rich. when you have it too lean, it will die when you full throttle it too fast.
    Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a Dark side, and it holds the universe together.

  19. #19
    Red Baron Gary's Avatar
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    Fox Engines

    Fox engines have had a lot of bad publicity, but no one remembers the dog or two that OS has made. (Remember the famous air leaking .61 fp carb needles?)
    Have a friend who has flown r/c for over thirty-five years, has had fox for at least that long of a time, he sez he can't find any stronger .74 size engine than the Fox Eagle.
    I have an Eagle 74 myself, look on www3.bc.sympatico.ca/Flite Line at the specs for the 74.
    To sum up the specs more or less, if the prop will fit on the crankshaft, the 74 will turn it with good authority.
    As for why they aren't found in too many hobby shops?
    Fox does not have high production capabilities (probably) and I don't think they have the financial backing that OS enjoys.
    In closing, the first schenurle port engine that I seen was either a a fox 40 or 46, and due to the backplate's oddly shaped design, they were often called "coffin back engines".
    Just my .25 worth,
    Gary Smith
    \"I don\'\'t want to see\'\'em crash, but I want to be there when they do.\" Moore\'\'\'\'s bromide, r.i.p. \'\'05

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    Fox Engines



    OS certainly does their share of advertising don't theyT

  21. #21
    Spaceclam's Avatar
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    Fox Engines

    well, they are really popular engines. i can see why. take my os .91 pumped fs for example. the thing turns a 14x6 at 9500 rpm, and han handle up to 30% nitro without a shim, and can handle up to 40% nitro. if you take them uffler off, you get a lot more power, and idle is supurb. spools up perfectly.
    Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a Dark side, and it holds the universe together.

  22. #22

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    Fox Engines

    Its the Toyota-vs-Chevy thing
    Yes the importers can make it cheaper and therefore sell more. But where do you think they got their orignal ideas from????
    Fox Motors are top notch performers....IF you break them in right!!!.
    If you try to take them out of the box, stick them on a plane and run them at the highest RPM possible(like an OS)...then YES..you will have a Fox engine that will not perform well.
    I have been to the plant in Ft. Smith, AK. True ..it is not state of the art with all CNC machjnes everywhere but they still make a great product.
    I owned 6 Fox engines. The companies really stands behind their engines and will repair them...and not a service center. If you spend the time to break them in on a test stand first ...you will be amazed at the power these engines have.

  23. #23

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    Fox Engines

    Spaceclam --

    I probably should have said I was referring to the early 2-needle carbs on Fox engines - I did say it was a "few" years back!!!

    The first Fox 2-needle carbs DID require adjusting the low speed needle FIRST. Again, this is why they were so unpopular - everyone tried to adjust them like OTHER brands of engines.

    If you - or anyone else - would like to read more about Fox engines and all the different carbs they used, check out this link:

    http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/fliteline/


    Here's the story on how to set up the early 2-needle carbs (from the website above):

    Not to be confused with modern two-"needle" (TN) carburetors, these two-"jet" designs appeared on the earliest Fox RC engines. It is important to note that these carburetors DO NOT operate the same as the TN carburetors most of us are familiar with today. Although seldom encountered now days, these early carburetors were so unique and innovative in design we feel they are still worthy of discussion.

    While other manufacturers were still offering only simple air-bleed types, Fox was manufacturing more advanced fuel metered carburetors. Referred to as "two-jet" carburetors, they were actually more sophisticated than many of today's current designs. Unfortunately, they were also more difficult to operate and proved too much for many modelers. (Especially those who did not read the instructions!) Properly adjusted, however, they were capable of performance superior to the simple air-bleed types.

    Even today, carburetors used on model engines are typically of the single-jet type. The jet is the small hole through which fuel enters the carburetor venturi. (Most modelers refer to it as the spray-bar). The amount of fuel flowing through the jet is adjusted by a needle valve to achieve the correct fuel/air mixture. Early Fox carburetors, however, employed two jets, each with its own needle valve. One was intended to adjust the idle mixture, the other to adjust the high-speed mixture. As the throttle valve was closed, the fuel flow from the high-speed jet was also gradually reduced to provide proper metering through the midrange as well. This was accomplished by either a tapered slot in the throttle barrel, or a protrusion in the carburetor casting that covered the jet as the throttle was closed (depending upon the carburetor model). The low and high-speed needle valves did not operate exclusively from one another however, which resulted in significant interaction between adjustments. Understanding this interaction was the key to successful operation.

    It was important to understand that fuel always flowed through the "idle" jet, whether at full throttle or idle! Unlike the high-speed jet, fuel flow from the idle jet was not reduced as the throttle valve was closed. With the throttle almost fully closed, the high-speed jet was completely restricted, leaving only the idle needle valve in complete control of the fuel mixture. As the throttle was increased, more and more fuel gradually entered through the high speed jet as well, and the total flow became the "sum" of the high and low-speed jets. If the correct adjustment sequence was not followed, success would be unlikely.

    When operating the familiar air-bleed carburetor it was common practice to adjust the high-speed needle first, then fine tune the idle mixture with the air-bleed screw. Attempting to apply this procedure to an early two-jet Fox carburetor would not be successful, yet many tried, and then blamed the carburetor! Although the correct procedure was essentially the exact opposite to the one familiar to most modelers, even the original Fox instructions did not always make this clear! The following quote from an early Fox .40BB and .45 BB owners manual is typical:

    "...For normal tank installations and flight conditions, we recommend that the low speed mixture adjustments be made for maximum RPM and then slowly back the needle out until the motor speed slows down 500 RPM. The high speed is the same way: screw the high speed needle out until the motor slows down 500 RPM...."

    Unfortunately, the importance of adjusting the low-speed mixture first (then leaving it alone) was not stressed and, while decreasing the speed 500RPM from maximum may have been correct, most modelers would not have had a tachometer. Determining this by ear was not too likely either. Besides, adjusting the idle needle with the engine running could be dangerous because of the close proximity of the propeller and hot muffler. It would have also been helpful to include some method of pre-setting the needle valves to a good starting point for those times when things got really messed up.

    Recommendations

    Many early Fox engines have been collecting dust for years simply because their owners could not operate the "strange" carburetor. Admittedly, even knowing the correct procedure, it still took a real feel for model engines to achieve a good setting. Fortunately, most older Fox engines will accept the current, more conventional, carburetor versions without modification. We strongly recommend doing this to vastly improve reliability and user friendliness.

    Since new Fox carburetors are very reasonably priced, updating an older engine is still economically viable. Early .40 and .45 schnuerle versions were powerful even by today's standards, and engines such as the .19 and .25 bushing or Eagle I .60 would still make great sport engines. The old .78 would serve well in a larger scale project. By simply updating the carburetor, these early engines can be put back into service with very pleasing results.

  24. #24

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    Fox Engines

    I just received the current edition of "Engine collectors Journal" which features a history of OS and that companies rise to dominant. (as an amateur historian I find it interesting that the entire history of Japan from the late 30's to 1945 did not happen:-) . OS has produced some very fine engines (I am particularly fond of my 1.08) and in huge quantities. This provides us modelers with the economies of scale. There is, however a down side. As a parallel before the brilliant "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" ad campaign coupled with Sochihiro Honda's acumen there were scores of interesting motorcycles produced worldwide. Now Norton, Montessa , BSA, Bultaco, Husqvarnia and scores of others have been replaced by the UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle).

    I have greatly enjoyed a number of different motorcycles and model engines from many manufacturers. The choice is much smaller now. I hope it grows no more limited.


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