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Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

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Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

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Old 09-06-2010, 06:35 PM
  #1  
haasjj
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Default Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

We'll if you didn't guess from the title of the thread I bought a used plane while I was in Dallas TX. The plane looked like it was in great shape and who ever built it went over board and used good hardware through out the plane not the stuff that came with the kit. The plane is a GP Reactor Biplane the bigger one that uses a glow motor. The plane had servos, battery, decent stuff not the best servos but good. Up front was a Saito 100 engine, that was the real selling point for me I've been wanting to try a four stroke engine but just hadn't done it yet. I figured 800- 900$ worth of plane and engine and electronics. Well here is the problem the engine has been abused, the glow plug was either cross threaded or stripped and either the metal got in the engine or something did. So my question is should I just replace parts or buy a new engine. Pictures below. More pics in other posts file was to big.
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

More pics. The 2nd and 3rd pics show the glow plug hole.
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

last of the pics
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Old 09-06-2010, 08:20 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

If you are the type that wants to be able to work on all components of an RC plane go ahead and go through the effort of rebuilding the 100. I had a similar experience with a used Saito 91. My guess, and only a guess, is that the rebuild effort and cost of parts will end up being about the same as having bought a new engine in the first place.

IMHO there is NO reason to knacker up the glow plug threads. I use a piece of small fuel line that fits snugly over the exposed electrode (or whatever that little thingy is called ) to start the glow plug into the head before I apply the plug wrench. You might do a search on "re-tapping" cylinder heads or repairing glow plug threads. Maybe someone who has the skills can offer to help with that piece of the repair without buying a new head.

Btw, the "subject" you chose for this thread might not get the Saito gurus that you need for a thorough evaluation. Maybe "Saito 100 Rebuild or toss".

Good luck getting the info that you need to make your decision.


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Old 09-06-2010, 08:54 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

The head can be repaired by Clarence Lee, he advertises in MAN. Doesn't cost much for him to heli coil a head, he does great work too!!. Looks like it may have been the threads floating around in the case that caused the scoring?? Hard to say. I like working on engines so I would fix it. How do the bearings feel?? I would just replace the ring, fix the head and depending on the bearings maybe replace them. A good soaking in a crock pot and anti freeze would clean it up and a bit of work to clean up the gears. If you don't want it I will take it!!! I would do the clean up first and then if it feels good send in the head to Mr. Lee.
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

A new gasket set as well. During dis-assembly check the length of the push rods - they should be equal length. Replace 'em if needed. During assembly, go ahead and lap the valves into the valve seats. I took a hardwood dowel and CA'd a valve to the end. I used a bit of Meguiar's rubbing compound as a lapping compound. Then insert the valve stem into the valve guide and twirl the dowel back and forth between your fingers while applying a bit of pressure to seat the valve. Keep track of the intake and exhaust valves.




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Old 09-06-2010, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

I would fix the threads, then clean up and see what happens. Take it from there.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:30 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

Thanks for all the suggestions I'll look into re-threading the head with a helicoil for the glow plug, I thought that would work but wasn't sure I've only done it once on a full size car. The bearings were very rough in one spot so yeah they need to be replaced to. I'll price everything out and see what it is. If I use a helicoil instead of replacing the cylinder it should be much cheaper than replacing half the parts. I forgot about the coolant trick and I've never done it do I just boil the engine in coolant and for how long.
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:10 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.


ORIGINAL: haasjj

Thanks for all the suggestions I'll look into re-threading the head with a helicoil for the glow plug, I thought that would work but wasn't sure I've only done it once on a full size car. The bearings were very rough in one spot so yeah they need to be replaced to. I'll price everything out and see what it is. If I use a helicoil instead of replacing the cylinder it should be much cheaper than replacing half the parts. I forgot about the coolant trick and I've never done it do I just boil the engine in coolant and for how long.

Crock pots don't boil usually and they're what most people use. A new one cost me $8.00 a year or so ago at WalMart. The antifreeze was more expensive. Use new antifreeze every time as each engine leaves the stuff with chemicals that sometimes etch the aluminum. They'll come out looking dark gray sometimes. You won't have that problem of course.
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:26 AM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

Except for the buggered up plug threads, it doesn't look too bad.

The reason you have marks (wear marks ) on the bottom end of the connecting rod, is because the rear bearing is worn and allowing the rod to rub the inside of the case. A new set of bearings and a heli coil in the plug threads will have it ready to run again. (Mr. Lee is a very nice gentleman to deal with BTW )
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:53 AM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

Truly sorry you got stuck with a mistreated engine. The folks here have provided some good suggestions toward getting it back in condition and the suggestion on glow plug replacement with the fuel line is a good one, particularly on Saitos with that deep head. Whatever you do, don't let this experience sour you on 4-strokes. That Saito 1.00 is just a great motor if you treat it right.

Good luck!
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

ORIGINAL: Augie11

Truly sorry you got stuck with a mistreated engine. The folks here have provided some good suggestions toward getting it back in condition and the suggestion on glow plug replacement with the fuel line is a good one, particularly on Saitos with that deep head. Whatever you do, don't let this experience sour you on 4-strokes. That Saito 1.00 is just a great motor if you treat it right.

Good luck!

Don't worry this won't sour me on four strokes just on buying used equipment. That's the difference with me I would have been up front about the problem.



ORIGINAL: proptop

Except for the buggered up plug threads, it doesn't look too bad.

The reason you have marks (wear marks ) on the bottom end of the connecting rod, is because the rear bearing is worn and allowing the rod to rub the inside of the case. A new set of bearings and a heli coil in the plug threads will have it ready to run again. (Mr. Lee is a very nice gentleman to deal with BTW )
I didn't think about the bad bearing causing the connecting rod to hit but it makes more sense than metal getting down there. I'm going to check into getting a helicoil kit before I send it to Mr. Lee. I am kind of into trying to fix things myself if I can but if I can't I send it off to him.



ORIGINAL: da Rock

Crock pots don't boil usually and they're what most people use. A new one cost me $8.00 a year or so ago at WalMart. The antifreeze was more expensive. Use new antifreeze every time as each engine leaves the stuff with chemicals that sometimes etch the aluminum. They'll come out looking dark gray sometimes. You won't have that problem of course.
My crock pot will boil stuff and I thought I had heard to boil it another time when I heard about this but it seems like you are saying not to boil. That's not a problem on low my crock pot won't boil. I'll get everything done and get an update in a few days, I still have to order pasts.
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:14 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

rcbearings.com is a pretty good place to get them. Look at the bottom of the case and it will tell you if the rod was hitting or not. There is a thread here that was just posted a short while ago about using the heli coil, the fellow did it himself. Just do a search, I think he mentioned where he got the kit and what little problems he ran into. The crock pot just needs to be on low over night and once you use it the pot can no longer be used for cooking. Mr. Lee doesn't charge very much for the service and with that IF IT FITS shipping through the post office it may be cheaper to just have it done?? I'm not sure about the cost of the heli kit for the plug size threads.
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:19 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

Here's a typical Helical Coil Insert kit.

. Drill the hole - alignment might well be the biggest challenge
. Tap the hole
. Screw in the insert
. Break off tab

The glow plug is (rumored)to be a 1/4-32.

Good luck.
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.


ORIGINAL: SeamusG

Here's a typical Helical Coil Insert kit.

. Drill the hole - alignment might well be the biggest challenge
. Tap the hole
. Screw in the insert
. Break off tab

The glow plug is (rumored) to be a 1/4-32.

Good luck.
What was the price of the kit and where did you get it. I have the 1/4 32 tAP TO CLEAN UP THE THREADS but I have never stripped them out but it may be something to have in the shop for that just in case.
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Old 09-07-2010, 03:38 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

Did you take out the plug? Was it in there tight enough to run?

Even with the scratches and pitting..you might be suprised. Sometimes they can look pretty crappy and still run really well.

If it was me, I'd chase the threads and be careful reinstalling the plug...then fuel it and run it! See what happens. I have a couple engines that look like that and run great.
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Old 09-07-2010, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.


ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

rcbearings.com is a pretty good place to get them. Look at the bottom of the case and it will tell you if the rod was hitting or not. There is a thread here that was just posted a short while ago about using the heli coil, the fellow did it himself. Just do a search, I think he mentioned where he got the kit and what little problems he ran into. The crock pot just needs to be on low over night and once you use it the pot can no longer be used for cooking. Mr. Lee doesn't charge very much for the service and with that IF IT FITS shipping through the post office it may be cheaper to just have it done?? I'm not sure about the cost of the heli kit for the plug size threads.

I have not checked prices to have it sent off to get it fixed and if it looks like that is best option I will send it to get fixed. I just like trying to do things like this myself even if it costs me a bit more, at least I learned how to do it and can help someone else or if I ever have to do it again then I know how. I'll check prices at rcbearings.com but since I need to order a few parts and a new RX for this plane from Horizon Hobby I'll most likely just get the bearings from them. I checked on the price of a helicoil kit and its about $30 I could save even that cost by going down to the Ryder shop that works on my semi and borrowing some tools from them, if they have them but I think I will still just buy a kit.


ORIGINAL: SeamusG


Here's a typical Helical Coil Insert kit.

. Drill the hole - alignment might well be the biggest challenge
. Tap the hole
. Screw in the insert
. Break off tab

The glow plug is (rumored) to be a 1/4-32.

Good luck.
You are correct the main thing I'm worried about is the alignment, but I think with the drill press in my garage and some careful planing I should be ok. Yeah from what I have read 1/4-32 seems to be right.


Thanks again for the help. I'll let you know how things come out, the parts are in the coolant now I'm going to grab a helicoil kit now and the engine should be back together (fingers crossed) by next week.
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:10 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

ORIGINAL: ArcticCatRider

Did you take out the plug? Was it in there tight enough to run?

Even with the scratches and pitting..you might be suprised. Sometimes they can look pretty crappy and still run really well.

If it was me, I'd chase the threads and be careful reinstalling the plug...then fuel it and run it! See what happens. I have a couple engines that look like that and run great.

Yeah I took the plug out, one of the pics above is of the plug hole and the outer part of the threads are shot. I tightened the plug as much as possible and then spun the prop and I could still hear and see that there was air leaking. Yeah I'm going to replace the parts that have to be replaced and clean it up and see what happens. I'm going to replace both bearing's and get a gasket set also replace the flywheel / collet, it was in bad shape and I made it worse when I was taking it off. I think for now that's all I'm going to replace the piston ring looks fine and I hope I get good compression, the rest looks bad but I don't want to spend $330 on a new engine unless I have to.
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:55 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

Recoil and Helicoil both make 1/4 - 32 repairkits About $30.00 each. Go to there web site for info. I have the Recoil set which was ordered from my local industrial fastener distrubutor.
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.


ORIGINAL: SeamusG

Here's a typical Helical Coil Insert kit.

. Drill the hole - alignment might well be the biggest challenge
. Tap the hole
. Screw in the insert
. Break off tab

The glow plug is (rumored) to be a 1/4-32.

Good luck.
Looks simple enough!
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

That engine is a piece of cake to fix and real easy. You said you have heli-coiled car cylinder heads?? Than this is easy. I always have bought used engines and with great sucess, except for a surpass 91, after two flights quit due to a broken valve spring, so now every used engine I buy, I replace a few cheap valve springs. I can't figure out how someone strips a glow plug hole, if they cross thead it or over tighten it, then they should not have the finess to even fly a plane, and maybe that is why th guy sold it, I didn't here of any restitution from this guy, right? I bought a engine here, and the engine was bouncing around in the box, lost the prop nuts and washer, damged muffler and the guy made good, so this should not sour you on 4 strokes or even used engines, being most of us are honest. That guy should relize you have a car and his address!

Life sometimes is like circumsizing an elephant, the pay is low but the tips are big!
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.


ORIGINAL: viperdada

That engine is a piece of cake to fix and real easy. You said you have heli-coiled car cylinder heads?? Than this is easy. I always have bought used engines and with great sucess, except for a surpass 91, after two flights quit due to a broken valve spring, so now every used engine I buy, I replace a few cheap valve springs. I can't figure out how someone strips a glow plug hole, if they cross thead it or over tighten it, then they should not have the finess to even fly a plane, and maybe that is why th guy sold it, I didn't here of any restitution from this guy, right? I bought a engine here, and the engine was bouncing around in the box, lost the prop nuts and washer, damged muffler and the guy made good, so this should not sour you on 4 strokes or even used engines, being most of us are honest. That guy should relize you have a car and his address!

Life sometimes is like circumsizing an elephant, the pay is low but the tips are big!

Just to clear up a few things I've never re-threaded a car cylinder head it was on the transmission of an old POS mustang I had, it was my first car. I don't know how someone cross threaded or damaged the threads but yeah not to good. I bought the plane in a shop in Dallas TX it was on consignment I won't give the name of the shop because they are in any way at fault. I live in North Dakota and I did not get the guys name and address, so there will be no restitution they sold the plane as is. I should have know something was amiss when I found out that the plane had been there twice for consignment from two different people, as I told them the plane would not be back a third time. Oh well my mistake and the only person I can be upset with is myself, but hopefully the engine will be running soon for under $60.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

You can fix the stripped threads by using a helicoil. I had an engine that was stipped and i put one in it and have never had a problem
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:14 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

You may also just want to said it to Horizon Hobby for an inspection to see exactly what you need to replace, but that may be costly, but It is better than going ahead and buying another $330 engine!
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:55 PM
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Default RE: Saito 100 Rebuild or toss buyer be ware of used engine's and planes.

Clarance Lee will helicoil your Saito for $20.00. That includes shipping it back to you. He did one for me about a year ago, I still don't know how I stripped the threads, since I always start the plug in the hole with my fingers. It just happens sometimes.
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