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  1. #1
    cmh284's Avatar
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    Thoughts on Competition...

    I am extremely new to all this but thought we could get an interesting discussion going regarding the future of RC Sky Diving Competition in the US and Worldwide.

    My only experience has been the Corks Rally this past weekend, and the competition and enjoyment level was spectacular. We were allowed unlimited jumps and the top 5 scores for each jumper counted. I don't think the competition could have been any better, especially with the winds on Saturday!

    As this hobby continues to grow - what ideas do you have for future competitions?

    One thought that crossed my mind was to have each jumper be limited to a set number of jumps - say 10 jumps - with his top 5 counting. He can have as many practice jumps as he wants, but he must state, before the jumper leaves the ground in a plane, that this is one of his 10 jumps that count... 10 total jumps with the top 5 counting.

    There was also talk of other "competitions", such as time aloft. This creates challenges due to it being impossible to know if each jumper is leaving the plane at the same altitude, but I like the idea.

    How have competitions been structured in the past?

    How are competitions done in other countries?

    What other ideas do you have?

    Right now for me, I could jump for 5 straight days and likely not hit the bullseye 5 times!





    Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute.

  2. #2
    RCAV8R3's Avatar
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    I like the idea of having a maxium number of jumps that count. That it makes it more challenging.

    Scott
    Scott M. Naylor, TSgt, USAF

  3. #3
    Banzai55's Avatar
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    All you need to do is practice, practice, practice! Frank has had 500+ jumps in the past two years and has made numerous refinements to his men. And we have had every possible failure from dirt dives to fly-offs. Practice and good equipment will win out no matter what the format! The CORKS group did an outstanding job putting on this competition!

  4. #4
    cmh284's Avatar
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    I get the feeling based on a couple of other comments that people are viewing my post as a critique of the CORKS event and that couldn’t be further from the truth. As I said above, the event was spectacular and the format worked perfectly.

    Anyways, I thought it could be an interesting discussion. I apologize if anyone misinterpreted my reasons for this post. I was just looking for ideas and information.
    Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute.

  5. #5
    JuanF's Avatar
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    CMH284,
    I wouldn't take the last two posts as you critiquing the CORKS event.

    At the present time there is no standardized scoring system used in the U.S. Of course we only have a couple of RC Skydiving Rallies in the U.S. From what I have seen of videos on the internet the Europeans have a more labor intensive scoring system in that they use judges to mark the jumpers landing point. You would probably have to talk to Jules about the European scoring system.

    I have only been to three RC Skydiving Rallies and I have seen the following scoring systems used:

    1. The contestant was limited to 15 jumps and the best 5 jumps were counted. The scoring was counted in the circle where the jumper's head (still attached to his body of course)was after the jumper landed.

    2. Last year at Muncie where due to the high winds where jumper touched down in the circle was where he was scored. This is the same system that was used at the CORKS event.

    3. At the CORKS event you had unlimited jumps and your best score sheet counted for your final score. At the CORKS event each score sheet had a space for 5 jumps.

    4. I think that all jumps should count toward your score except if you have a malfunction of your jumper's parachute.

    Speaking for myself I like the idea of unlimited jumps. I think that counting your best score of whatever number of jumps you made and the scoring system used at the CORKS event both have merit. These are just my thoughts on the scoring systems being used at the present time.

    Juan

    PS: All of the circles should be standardized and painted RED or Fluorescent Orange!!!!

  6. #6
    cmh284's Avatar
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    Thanks Juan! That's interesting about the European system.

    I like the idea of unlimited jumps for a number of reasons: 1) So many things can go wrong 2) It's fun to jump often and try different things 3) Setting an entire weekend aside and travelling for just 10 or 15 jumps doesn't seem worth it.

    On the flip side, having a limited number of jumps really increases the pressure to make them count! I would think that a skilled, experienced jumper could almost always hit the bullseye 5 times when allowed an "umlimited" number of jumps (unlimited being a relative term). I'm not saying that is a bad thing because the truth is no matter what the format - skill and experience will almost always win out - AS IT SHOULD.

    We may very well have the ideal format already...

    Should we go ahead and start writing the RULES & STANDARDS for the American RC Sky Diving Association?

    Rule 1A - All circles shall be painted Bright Red!
    Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute.

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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    Now you know if the circle is in Red this only plays into Juan's favor..... We have to make it any other color than Red.... I am all for anything any body wants to do. We did unlimited just to keep it fun and not to serious. Also if there was a limited amount of jumps it could be a really short day. Somebody does 15 and they pound them out really fast like Jules or Gary and Wes you would be done jumping by Lunch.

    How about something like this.
    First day you get to jump from 9-12 as practice, jump as many times as you want. Then from ,say 12-4 your jumps are scored and limit the jumping to 10 jumps and your top 5 count. The next day the Top 5 are not aloud to practice. Practice could be from 9-11 then from 11 to 1 every body jumps for score and tries to improve on their scores from the previous day.


    Just an idea!!!


    Mike S.

    Chad. I see your a Nascar fan same as me, we could do a Race for the Chase. We see how well that is working..

  8. #8
    JuanF's Avatar
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    CMH284,

    I agree with you completely. Rule 1A of the Rules and Standards of the American RC Skydiving Association (ARCSA) should be "All Circles shall be painted Bright Red".
    I hereby nominate you as the first member of the Rules and Standards committee. There should also be a very severe penalty for anyone that paints the circle any color other than red. Perhaps they should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. Thank you very much.

    Mike S.

    Your idea of having practice drops for a set amount of time the morning of the contest sounds good. It would give everyone the opportunity to get loosened up. It would be worth giving it a try. Should be interesting to see how it would work out.

    Juan

    Rule 1A forever!!!!

  9. #9
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    I believe in the KISS principle.

    In Europe 5 jumps are counted with perhaps 6 max. The jumper is required to land on it's feet into the wind at a precise quadrant of the circle. The circle center is a electronic sensitized pad which provides a readout in CM from the exact center. Under these conditions, you do a lot of sitting around instead of jumping. Jules can offer more accurate information.

    We organized the CORKS event with fun and friendship as the primary reasons to be there. I think everyone had an opportunity to jump as many times as they wanted. You could consider these as practice jumps and record your best efforts.

    Next year Paul Fannin and Mike See will continue with the same rules or change them in response from others.

    pr

    Just found this, don't know whether it's still in effect or not, but gives you an idea of the complexity of Euro Rules:


    The target itself measures 16cm in radius. Hitting it, you get a whopping
    100pts bonus ( -100pts). Not hitting it, the distance from the CENTER of the
    target is measured within a 5m radius. One point per cm. There is second circle
    with 7m radius, which marks the closest distance to the target at which the
    pilot is allowed to stand.
    There is an area around the target center that is called Platz=field. Its
    shape and size is not defined. It could be a circle of 10m radius for example.
    Field is 700, outside field is 1000 pts.
    The penalties are:
    no visible free dive - 200 pts
    dirt dive or flight not executed - 1500pts
    no right/left circle flown - 100pts each
    only if field is hit:
    no "straight landing procedure" 250 pts
    no landing in wind direction (+- 45 degrees allowed) 200pts


    There have always been arguments about what "straight" means. I would say it
    means no significant changes in direction of more than 90 degress in the last
    2-3 meters of flight.

  10. #10
    cmh284's Avatar
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    16 cm = 6.3 inches [X(]

    I can't even comprehend those rules or understand what they are talking about!

    Complicated rules spoil the fun. It's all about finding the right balance between fun and spirited competition. Like I said before - we may already have the right formula!

    Mike - I really like your idea about somehow limiting the jumps that count - just not exactly sure how to structure it while keeping it simple and straightforward.

    Any ideas of other challenges which could be incorporated into a weekend event?

    - Time Aloft (how do you calculate jump altitude and keep it similar for all jumpers?)

    - Catch your diver?

    (I'm just making stuff up here - I'm not that creative when it comes to this type of stuff!)
    Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute.

  11. #11
    edge_pilot's Avatar
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    I think we need to have a HALO (high attitude low opening) contest. We could measure the jump attitude with a recorded altimeter and the landing has to be a fully fuctional, completely deployed parachute before he touches the ground.

    As far as rules for average jump rallys, I think you should either get extra points or make it a must to touch the feet of the diver first. I seen a few 100 point landings at the Cork's rally that were face plants and back slides.


  12. #12
    R/C Skydiver's Avatar
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    I believe in PR's KISS principle. Add to that " if it ain't broke, don't fix it"!!

    Get too many rules involved and it could kill all the fun. It could make it necessary to have judges if it was too complicated. Yuuuuk!

    I wouldn't make the 12 hr drive from Alabama if I was limited in the number of jumps I could make.

    A seperate event would be ok to add to the challenge but leave it as a voluntary event. The HALO sounds interesting if we could keep them out of the trees!

    I have had a great time at all the rallys I have been to-and that's what it's all about.

    Jim B.

  13. #13
    edge_pilot's Avatar
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    definately the HALO would be completely voluntery. Maybe we can see if we can get the interest at Muncie.

    One other thing I would love to see for the peer fun factor is a mass jump. Actual organize as many planes as we can that hold as many jumpers as possible and see how many skydivers we can get in the air at one time. With all the 2.4 now this should be really cool.

  14. #14
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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    I like the idea of "time aloft" but separate from the contest of jumping for accuacy
    .
    The Wilga has a device installed called a Picolario which gives a real time altitude voice announcement to a walkie-talkie. Mike See needs to research more about it. The jumpers that penetrate to the target won't do as well as the floaters eg. MIKE's

    pr

  15. #15

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    RE: Thoughts on Competition...

    Time A loft would be fun. I like the idea of catching it as well. You would have to stand in specific spot and then not move out of it. Haul the jumper up and then fly him back to you with out coming out of your spot and catch him. Sounds fun to me.

    Mike S.


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