Flatland2D

I've spent the past two weeks reading as many posts as possible about 1/8th buggies since I'm looking to buy one. Everyone seems to recommend something more expensive than what the person was originally looking at for racing. Now I've never raced R/C before (been a basher for 2 years) but isn't racing supposed to be 90% driver? The only buggy that's really in my budget right now is the cheapest one out there - OFNA Ultra LX Comp. I will be bashing with whatever I get and can't promise I'd ever race with it or even enjoy racing. But if I did end up liking it, wouldn't it take me a few years to get good enough to really take advantage of the extra features of the more expensive buggies? In a perfect would I'd love to be fortunate enough to start out with the best, but that's not going to happen right now. This would in no way be my last R/C, so keep that in mind. This would also be my first nitro, so I'd need something relatively easy for a beginner to tune. I've heard mixed reviews about the Force 26. This would for sure be a basher, with the possibility of racing it every once in a while. I'd probably go bashing 10 times for every time I raced it.

Maybe someone could also explain what makes other buggies like the Hyper 7 or Mayhem much better racers than cheaper models. All I gather is that they're just little performance tweaks, which wouldn't matter much if I can't make consistent laps yet.

PATchy

take a look at the hyper 7 pbs, its like $419 at www.acehardwarehobbies.com but you might be able to find it even cheaper on ebay or somethin..its a good buggy but the electronics are crap, change the servos and get a better transmitter if you plan to race. it come with a starter box which is a plus and it is meant specifically for the pbs so you don't have to worry about trying to allign it all the time. comes with a good engine too

there are many PCR hop up parts for it if you want to trick out your buggy in the future and would also be good if you plan to race.
also, buy a rechargable battery pack


patchy

jkoch

1/8 scale buggy racing is probably the most expensive class to race in as far as initial purchase price and maintenace. A great driver with a cheap buggy will beat a bad driver with a top buggy. But a great driver with a top buggy will smoke a great driver with a cheap buggy. Top buggies also handle better and are easier to drive fast, won't break as much, etc. If you don't plan on racing then it doesn't matter. Get a cheap RTR, bash and have fun, you'll learn a lot and may be able to step up in a few years.

Flatland2D

The Hyper 7 PBS would probably be my next choice if I had more money. Here's the thing though. There's still a $160 different between that and the LX Comp. The LX Comp would still need a starter box, but I could get that used for about $20 on eBay. Both would need a new steering servo so that cancels out. Only other consideration is the engine difference. Could the Force 26 still be raced in a modified class? That's the only real appeal to the .21 engine, but I could buy an extra engine for less than the price difference between the two buggies. I wouldn't be interested in tricking it out other than upgrades increasing durability. What purpose is there in getting a better transmitter? I know they have more features, but are they really necessary? I used to fly R/C airplanes so I know the importance of a good computer radio, but I just don't see the importance here. I've been using my 2 channel Traxxas radio for a Rustler and TC3 (both brushless) and never have wanted more.

Thanks for the help.

Flatland2D

This is more what I was wondering. I'm pretty sure a low end buggy will fit my needs just fine, but I want to make sure I'm not missing out on anything huge. I figure it'd take me a few years to really be competitive if I fell in love with racing, but my financial situation will be much different then (right now I'm a poor college student finishing up my electrical engineering degree). I'm 100% open to buying a better buggy when the time comes, but I just don't see the need to go all out on my first one.

911

My advice to you is to save your money and get some good material this doesn't mean you have to get the best of everything but don't go skimping on a starter box, there's nothing worst than working the whole week on a car only to get to the track and find out your box isn't working properly.(then you spend your afternoon working on the box...[&:])
Do what i usualy do, just keep saving your money or buy stuff piece by piece, the higher quality kit will be cheaper in the long run trust me.
as far as transmitters go just make sure it has basic functions such as end point adjustments and throttle trim. servos on the other hand are very price sensitive, in other words, most of the time, you get what you pay for.[&:]
with a 1/8 buggy a good set of servos is a must.

kx250ryder

Ok. Normally I would include a link to a page of parts to buy, totalling just under $1000.00 for a COMPLETE setup even including gas. I can see that you are trying to be on Team EXTREME Low Budget, which is going to make your life difficult. However, you seem to have one thing going for you. That is that you seem good with E-Bay. So this is what I would suggest:

Hyper TQ Sport

Then go to E-bay for:

- OS RG
- Jammin JP-1 Pipe
- Radio & Receiver (FM)
- Starter Box
- Servos
- Receiver pack
- Failsafe

From Hobby Shop:

- Dubro Pit Stop w/glow ignitor
- Byrons 30% race fuel
- Glow plugs

Honestly, yes you can just stick it out with what OFNA gives you in their RTRs. It won't be pretty. The reason that it is damn near unanimous to spend the money on the kit, is because all of us took the wrong path first, and are trying to keep you from making the wrong decision. You may get away with an impulse buy in 1/10th electric, but you will kick yourself over and over again for doing it with these cars. The problem is that almost nobody listens, and trips into the same trap all of us did.

I would say wait, save your Christmas money (or whatever you call Jewish winter holiday money), allowance money, blood money, drug money, lunch money, and steal other people's money so that you can just buy the right stuff the first time. If you can do that, you may well be the first person in the history of 1/8th Nitro buggies to enjoy it from the beginning, instead of pulling your hair out over cheap part failure and steep learning curve. In case I changed your mind, here is the link to the setup I tell everyone to get:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3456130


If not, get either a Jammin X1 RTR or a Sportwerks Mayhem RTR. The former has a kick ass chassis and suspension, the latter has kick ass radio gear and engine. No RTR has both.

911

Well said[8D]

Flatland2D

kx250ryder,
I appreciate your response. I've probably read the $1000 list you've posted before. Let's make one assumption. Say I don't plan on racing at all - I just want something to bash with. A bigger engine, better suspension, better handling all really don't matter as much when there's no clock to run against. So then the only difference would be that I would break parts more often? I seem to have gotten the impression that most buggies are pretty well built. Even people with low end setups report never/rarely breaking parts. Considering all this, then:

- OS RG -what's wrong with a stock engine?
- Jammin JP-1 Pipe -same as above
- Radio & Receiver (FM) -why FM? don't need a 1 mile range or even fancy features for simple driving
- Starter Box -need one
- Servos -at least a steering servo, understood
- Receiver pack -already have some
- Failsafe -another definite item

The last four I'd need no matter what I buy. This is factored into my budget. I know it'll take more than the $260 price tag of an LX Comp to get running. But factor in a more expensive kit, plus all the other stuff, and that's more than I can spend.

kx250ryder

The RG and the JP-1 make about the cheapest combination you can get for engine/pipe if not getting an RTR. FM radios are less likely to receive interference, and send your car pummelling into walls, trees, cars, or other people (failsafes can't always save you, especially at high speed). I don't get a mile of range with my FM radio either, but an AM will likely give you less.

Make no mistake, I am not rich, I am a 24 year old guy (25 in two hours) making hourly wage. I don't race (other than at our backyard track), I don't get paid to drive, I am not one of those people who insist that you get the 600 dollar kit or super expensive radio. I made that list as cheap as possible (except the radio and starter box, you could get cheaper, but not very much). Everything else was essentials.

I too am a member of Team Low Budget. You have to realize that stock parts (especially RTR stuff) wear out extremely quickly, and you will chew through two or three times the cost of your kit within weeks if you drive regularly. It only took me two weeks to eclipse the $1000.00 mark, off of a $330.00 initial investment. I won't be offended if you don't follow all of our advice, you will not be the first, nor the last. Welcome to 1/8th nitro.

Flatland2D

I'd honestly rather get RTR. I've got nothing against kits and have put them together before, but these look a little more complicated and I wouldn't want to screw it all up because I forgot something. Plus I'd want to get it running as quickly as possible. As for radios, I have considered getting a better one and will do it eventually, but I may see how long I can last on AM first. Is there more interference when other people (also driving) are around? I've always done all my driving alone. Do you mind explaining more about what will wear out faster with RTR? Do parts simply break easier? If it matters, this will probably just be a weekend driver once the initial coolness of it wears off. I live in an apartment complex and wouldn't feel comfortable driving it around here like I do my electrics, so it may only get driven once or twice a week.

Thanks again for your help. I'm still trying to figure all this out. I've never completely settled on one setup yet, so things could change. I've also got a wife that I'd have to get approval from to spend this much. If it were just me I'd probably spend every penny I had on a good buggy. If I were to save up and go all out it'd probably take at least 6 months or more. Sometimes you just have to make sacrifices and deal with them. I don't know what to do. I think some of my impatience is because I can't drive my brushless Rustler because the ESC is fried. Saving up right now to get a refurbished unit.

Engrose

I have the lx comp and race it with an OS RG engine and a FM radio. I bought the Comp without engine and electronics so I could choose what I preferred.
The durability of it has surprised me, it's not much that has broken even though it has taken some beatin and hard hits. I think that it is a good beginner buggy, but I would still say that it's better to spend more on a kit from the start if you want to race. If you just want to bash mostly, then the Comp is fine.
You know that you don't need a starterbox for the stock LX Comp? And if you bash, then maybe it is more convenient to get a rotostart.

Flatland2D

What would you change then about the LX Comp to make it a better racer? What don't you like about it? Does the handling really suck that bad? I know it comes with a pullstart, but I haven't heard a single good thing about them, especially when breaking in. I wouldn't mind getting the MBX Comp because the price difference is equal to a starter box, but I've heard mixed reviews about the powerstart. Is the rotostart something different? I would like some kind of electric start because hauling around a starter box when bashing wouldn't be as easy as a starter I can fit in my pocket.

I guess to revise what I'm looking for, I'd put durability at the top of my list. That's more important that handling and such for my use. Would I be sacrificing much in terms of durability by getting a low end buggy like the LX Comp

Engrose

I don't think that the handling suck at all. But if you are serious about racing, then the Comp has some problems: The fueltank is to big and the track is to wide. If you bash or run in not so serious competition then these things are an advantage. Another for me annoying thing is the radiobox which has timeconsuming access. Again not a problem for a basher.
Pullstarts are annoying as h... and starterbox is the best thing. But a rotostart is a handheld starter that is better than the pullstart even though you still have the onewaybearing in the engine. The MBX Comp has a really bad startersystem, which should be avoided.

The Comp is very durable. The downside is that it is maybe a little bit heavy. But I have really raced mine a lot without much breakage. And what have broken has only been due to extreme accidents at full speed.

All you need to upgrade are the steeringservo and a 6V batteryhumppack.

kx250ryder

The primary concern I have with RTR setups is durability and longevity. Base model servos will die in short order, especially in a platform as heavy as a 1/8th buggy. Also, pertaining to the car itself, most kits downgrade from carbon fiber to aluminum. The problem I have with this is, aluminum bends, meaning the part may look ok, but it could be flexed enough to cause wear on other nearby components. Carbon fiber is good because it doesn't really bend, it just breaks, revealling right away the problem, and alerting you to fix it. One may argue that you can simply bend the aluminum back, but this weakens the part thoroughly, and you will find yourself frequently bending and re-bending it. Another issue is the use of plastic for suspension retainers and chassis braces instead of aluminum. Aluminum may bend, but plastic bends and breaks even easier, causing more frequent trips to the hobby store. As it pertains to the LX Comp in particular, it utilizes a rear chassis support that I have found to be very weak, and can cause damage to driveline components with the flex that it allows. In addtion, we frequently stripped diff gears, broke shock shafts, and had issues with the kingpin suspension.

If a cheap OFNA kit that is extremely durable is what you are after, I would suggest the 9.5 Pro (yes, you will have to build it, and supply your own running gear). I have this particular model, and while it isn't a popular model for racing, it is extremely popular for bashing. Plus, it comes with two complete suspension setups, meaning that you get free replacement suspension if and when you break your first setup. It has spawned two other models, i.e. the Violator and the Ravager (downgraded RTR versions of the Pro), and because of these other incarnations, there will be parts support for some time to come. This is still a dated design, and going with a Hyper or better yet a Jammin buggy would likely yield more enjoyment on your part.

By choosing the RTR path, you will likely take one of three paths:

1.) Become frustrated with this type of kit and quit
2.) Spend the money to upgrade your car to pro status (typically at a cost of 1.5 to two times the cost of your kit in the first place)
3.) Cut your losses, sell it on e-bay, and still end up forking out the cash for a more expensive kit, radio gear, and engine

Take note of anyone who has a base kit listed in their profile, any of them that have been around for more than even a few months, have already spent the money for a more expensive one. Thats why I keep re-iterating it to get it right the first time. I call this Tech 8 syndrome. It goes back to my dirt bike riding days, when we all got into it, and started buying saftey gear. At the time, Alpinestars Tech 8 boots were the top of the line, but cost around $300.00. My buddies and I were pretty poor, so we opted for cheaper boots instead. Within two months, all of us had crashed bad enough to injure either our ankles or feet. We all went out, and bought the better boots in short order. We should have done it the first time, which would have saved us the original cost of the boot, and the medical bills for taking the cheap way out. This syndrome applies to all facets of life. If there is something you want, don't settle, bust your ass, save your money, and just get it done right the first time.

MBX5T Maniac

My Feedback: (-1)

the mp-777 sp2, since it is 4mm longer than the sp1, and the engine is further back, is supposed to handle much better(says Jeremy Kortz)

Flatland2D

Ugh, so many choices. I know "pro" versions are better but what about the Violator? That's still do-able for me. Remember what I said in my first post, this will in no way be my last R/C so I know already that someday I will buy something nicer. And given your three options, I'd probably go with #2. I don't mind putting more money into it later. Sometimes you have to just get started and work your way up. My Rustler for example started out as a $130 stadium truck and now has been upgraded to a $550 stadium truck (and that's just upgrades alone, not counting all the broken parts I've replaced). Sure I could have bought a sweet $550 truck from the start, but I would have missed out on a whole year of the hobby.

It's not the RTR factor that I really like. I could put a kit together if I had to. It just comes out cheaper (yes, I know, cheaper equipment) doing it that way. If I got into racing I wouldn't mind buying a .21 OS RG for racing only and a better radio. I just don't see myself needing all that for driving around in dirt, kicking up dust, and doing a few jumps. Maybe a tough suspension is the only critical thing I'd need.

I don't mean to sound like I'm not listening to your "kit" advice. I'd do it if I had the extra money. I'll just have to think about it for a while and see what situation I'm in when I'm ready to buy. That won't be for at least 2 more months so there's plenty of time to think and research. Thanks for the help.

Edit: What are your thoughts on the Hyper 7 TQ KIT (!). About how much would I be spending to upgrade to the Pro version if I got serious about racing?

zr1s10

My Feedback: (2)

Somthings that I think make a great race buggy:

Powerfull afforadable .21 (Ofna Hyper 21 8port is a great engine and will smoke the os rg)
A Good tuned Pipe (my recomendation is a JP-1 for small more technical tracks and a JP-2 for everything else)
Fast/Powerful steering servo (A servo with .15 time and atleast 130oz of tq would be perfect!)
FM Radio (I had an XR3i when I started and it was a GREAT radio. Felt great and had nice features)
Starter Box (Theres one out there that everyone likes, and I personaly can vouch for! Ofna Chrome top!)

With that you could pickup a pretty new roller buggy off ebay or the forum.

BTW The 7 TQ would make a nice starter for anyone.

Haulin bass

Buggies need FM radios with all the metal noise all the metal to metal contact makes AM radio glitch badly.IMO there is absolutly no reason not to spend $100 on an fm radio, its not like you need one for every car(just by extra RXs) and It can save you so much hastle.A 5 cell RX pack is just as important as well. then a good steering servo, I feel no less than what was stated above by rz1s10(I got a 350 s-10 myself)will do.Next worry about your engine/clutch/pipe combo, most poeple skimp on clutches but clutch tuning makes a world of differnce.Since racing is a non issue tires are not all that important.
One thing I also think is a good Idea and what allot of people up north do is buy two kits and use one for parts but this is obviously out of the question for you.

I belive the Hyper 7TQ is the best kit under $300 and about the only car I would look at on a budget.

Flatland2D

Well I spent a bunch of money trying to get into airplanes but found out it wasn't for me. I'm hoping to trade some of that stuff for an MX3 or something similar. At the very least I will sell everything on eBay and put the profits towards this. So that solves the radio problem. A high torque servo and 6V reciever pack are a given. I hear so many good things about the .21 OS RG that I'd probably just go with one of those. What about using that with the exhaust pipe that comes with the TQ kit? I really don't care if I'm not getting 100% power out of the engine, I just want to bash. Should I want to race competitively I'll get a better pipe and whatever else I'd need.

SManMTB

Why do you advice him to go to eBay for the OS RG? They are $110 from tower.

tonytiger

well said kx250ryder


id reccomend a ofna hyper tq kit my local hobbyshop sells them for about $225.00...call kevin at rc hobbies in michigan 810 632 7084............that gets you a kit complete with everthing you need except motor and radio gear......when it comes to motor selection you could spend as little or as much as you want same with electronics....you could also buy a motor with a pull start if you cant afford a box.......

the biggest advantage to building your own kit besides getting a better car is the fact you will learn so much more about the car and how it works by building it yourself.....if you dont understand the car you will become fustrated with it in a very short time...any rc car i dont care what it is requires alot of maintnace to keep it in working order.....i race 3 nights a week and i work on my cars the other 4 nights...

Da Smak

But note, the majority of top level racers will go for Carbon fibre for the weight loss. But should they run on a rough track many will go for the aluminium, BECAUSE it's better to finish with a bent part than retire with a broken one.

RTR's have their place, I personally recommend the Hyper 7 PBS, as long as you get a decent servo for the steering she will be good to race after a quick break-in, rebuild and lubing up. 2 7.2V stick packs, ignitor and fuel are all that are needed in addition to the kit, the rest of our advisements are optional but highly recommended, like a 6v RX pack.

kx250ryder

Good point, I actually got mine there when they had one of there $20.00 off a $150.00 or more purchase coupon things going.

I run on pretty nasty surfaces myself, and have yet to break any carbon part on my car (including shock tower). I guess if money was on the line I might run CNC for my towers, and maybe the upper plate, but it would be CNC, not that stamped RTR stuff. My buddy's Hyper and my other buddy's Mayhem bend that stuff like butter (recently the Hyper has been upgraded to all pro parts, and no probs since).

I don't know about RTRs though. Maybe with planes, where you aren't constantly re-building it, or where a weaker servo can still allow proper operation. But its like he said, this won't be his last car, so as long as he keeps that in mind, go ahead with a RTR to start. It can get you into the hobby sooner, but you have to have tons more patience. Partially because of the RTR components, but also because you are learning how to build (or re-build) not when the parts are nice and new and fit together well, but instead after you broke something.

slicks

TEAM LOW BUDGET -- I like that! I have a son in college and my daughter is in a program to go to Europe next summer. By no means can I afford the most expensive items out there either.

I can tell you that the LX Comp is a good buggy - but if you can swing it go with the list that Engrose and KXRyder posted. It will allow you to choose your own engine (get the OS RG!) and servo's etc... PLUS if you do decide to get serious you can upgrade the TQ with all of the better PCR parts. The main thing that I don't like about the LX rtr is the ofna force engine -- they just don't hold a tune and are a real pain and that is probably one of the reasons Engrose found one (LX Comp) with out the engine and electronics. Oh and the electronics on the ofna rtr's are very low end and you will be spending more money to replace them quickly after you start. My thought here is why spend money on something that you will have to replace in the 1st month of running it?

If you have to wait a couple of extra weeks to get the TQ and everything else - do it - you will be much happier. OH and if you don't have one -- get a starter box and a non-pull start engine and save yourself the headaches with those as well.

If you read thru a number of the threads on this forum you will find that both Engrose and Ryder post very good info and I for one always look for their responses when asking a question or reading others.