pro1mh

My son and I are new to this hobby and I was wondering what engine is better for the buggys and why? It does not even have to be the .21 or .26, any engine. What are the differences between the smaller and larger engines on the track, top end speed, low end torque etc?

Thanks

Dawman

My Feedback: (33)

If you plan on racing you can only run a .21 engine . Most bigger engines are designed for monster trucks as they lack in hp . There are some .26 engines that are designed for buggies . I`d stick with a .21 , a good .21 will out perform any bigger engine .

aangelet

I have to agree with Dawman on this one. I've run quite a few engines trying to find one over .21 that would give me what I'm looking for. My local club allows you to run what you have. It tried the Sportwerks .26, the O.S. VG30, Mach 427, and a few others. When it came down to all around performance, the .21s did the best in buggies. They rev more quickly, typically are able to turn higher RPMs (more speed), and give you better runtimes.

I'm running an RB Worlds S7IIX3. I'm always being asked what it is (I have a non stock head, so you can't tell) by the guys with the .26, .27, and .30 engines, because they can't even hope to keep up on the straights. Of course, the Worlds is typically a $300+ engine. It depends on what you want to spend. Some good engines that I don't think anyone would dispute are:

O.S. RG - Costs around $110. Not the fastest, but has a great bottom end, really good for tight tracks and bashing. Super easy to tune and really wakes up at about 250 degrees F. Most of the guys at my local track run this engine.

Novarossi P5X (in any flavor, Nova, Top, or Rex) - Costs around $280. This engine is a beast with a great bottom end and mid range. Pretty good top. Great for tight to medium tracks. Very reliable and easy to tune. It's also not very pipe sensitive like the RB.

Novarossi T21BF (I think) - The budget line from Nova. Costs about $150 to $180. Really under rated engine. Great bottom end and mid range. Not like the P5, but it does't cost nearly as much either. Very easy to tune and reliable.

RB Worlds S7II or S7III - This is my personal favorite. I'm not a very good driver and it has a bit less bottom than the P5, but has more top. It's easier to control on a tight track for me. Easy to tune, but a bit pipe sensitive. It goes for around $300+, you could opt for the plain vanilla S7, which is also an excellent engine for about $80 less.

Ofna Hyper 21 8 port race - A real sleeper that is over looked. It's cheap for a performance engine at about $150 and runs really well. The drawback is that you have to put an O.S. RG carb on it to get it to really shine. These engines are dirt cheap to rebuild. I think I got my last piston, sleeve and conrod on ebay for about $50.

These are not the only good engines, but are ones that I've had personal experience with. I own all but the Novarossi T21BF, but have driven cars with that engine. I've had very good experiences with all of these. You could pick one and you won't be disappointed, unless you go with the Hyper. You will need to replace the carb on it as the stock one sucks.

slicks

Very good info from aangelet!

If you are new to this hobby -- I would recommend that you go with the OS RG. It is a great engine and holds a tune very well. If you want more top end speed out of it get a JP2 pipe with a 13th clutch bell and it will give you all the speed you need to learn with. Another budget engine is the Thunder Tiger Pro .21. It has more top end than the OS RG and it really screams. I put one on my daughters buggy a couple of weeks back (she had an OS RG) and she took 3rd place the first day she drove with it.

Start out slow and learn more about your buggies and how to drive then move up to the more powerful engines. Trust me, 80% of doing well in the hobby is driving!

Good luck and enjoy your time with your son.

mkincy

Great info from everyone in this thread, i would also recomend the OS RG .21, its a great engine to start out with, easy to tune, good performance, usualy last 10+ gallons before rebuild, and cant beat the price.

aangelet

After re-reading my post, I do want to point out that I wasn't trying to downplay the RG. I own two of them. Each has over 5 gallons of 30% threw it and each still starts within a few seconds of being hit on the starter box. I really can't express their of tuning and their ability to hold a tune. You get a lot more than $109 of performance out of the RG.

If you get an RG, go with Slick's recommendation. JP2 pipe with a 13T bell. If you do your part on the track, it won't let you down. The only downside to the RG is that I loves to be run hot. It's the only engine I have that I run over 230. It really wakes up at 250. If temps that high bother you, just tune it with the stock head on it, then put an after market head on it and take note of the temp, just so that you'll know where the "new" optimal temp is. Mind you, you should never tune for temp, but the RG seems to be the exception to the rule. As soon as you hit 250, it's like waking up a mean drunk.

The RG is definitely worth a bit of an investment to have a round, if you plan to stay in the hobby. It's always good to have at least one of them around, even after you upgrade to a "faster" engine. I run mine at 250-260 with the stock head with the OS #8 plug.

I have heard good things about the Thunder Tiger, but haven't gotten around to getting one. I like the idea of keeping a support stock (plugs, seals, screws, head, etc.) for a back up engine that I can buy from just about any hobby shop, if I need to, for less than $120. The RG fills that role nicely.

SManMTB

What slicks and aangelet said.

The RG is a safe bet. I used up two of them and I wasn't kind to them either. 240 - 260 were the temps they ended up at. Running 20% Red Alert + OS#8.

I recently got the TTR PRO21B-R (mentioned earlier) and got just short of a gallon through it now. Half of it was with 20% White Lightning with only 8% oil in it. That actually made a big difference compared to the 20% Red Alert I normally run (oil 15% maybe ???). The lower oil content gave it just enough to go a little bit higher in rpm. It was noticeable.
I'm happy with it so far. Runs a tad cooler than the RG and is comparable to the RG in performance and driveability, maybe it has a slight edge in overall power. The carb has inserts and comes with a 7mm insert stock. I just drilled mine out to 8 and I'm heading out racing tomorrow.

aangelet

Sman,

I've been running White Lightning for a while now and I like it. From what I understand, 8% oil is the perfect amount. The relatively low oil content also makes tuning easier. IIRC, I added an extra .1mm shim to the RG and started running 30%. With the low oil content, tuning difficulty doesn't increase much and the engine actually wound up running a bit cooler. I found myself running a bit richer with the 30%.

slicks

SMan -- Are you racing with us tomorrow in Powhatan??? If so, that is good news!!

Again -- I too agree with all that has been said here. All good info for a beginner in this hobby!!!

pro1mh

Thanks everyone for the info, it is much appreciated as I am trying to soak up as much info as I can. Please continue this thread with anymore info. This has already helped me tremendously!
Thanks again!

Rs43EVOman

I'm gonna have to put up a votew for the T21B. (just to let you know the T21B, R21B, and N21B are the exact same thing) Its a very good engine, and i personally thinks it out performs the OS RG, and at only $60 i think ts worth the money. And just like the OS rg it holds its tune for a long time.

kx250ryder

I am running an OS RG, with JP-2 pipe and OS 8 plugs. The fuel I have had best luck with is Byrons Race 3000 (30%). I have tried a few other brands, none came close. I also saw a noticeable performance increase between 20 and 30 percent fuel.

http://www.byronfuels.com/pages/find_dealer.html

mayhem272

i agree with dawman and you also
i have the same theory, 21 are lack in accel, 26-28 are lack in high end and in order to fix the lacking, for a 21, run a lowend pipe (jp-1, hardcoat for raceing) and a 26-28 run a high end pipe (jp-2)
and if u are strickly racing, go a 21 class and check out rb and novarossi
if u are just for fun go for a 26-28 (i recoemdn the sportwerks, dirt cheap only $130 brand new w/carb)
pm me with other questions u might have im all about these engines im constantly taking mine apart to see how they work. the sportwerks 26 will push a buggy in the higher 40's (ex the sportwerks rtr buggy)
also if u go with a rb or nova, they will last you 10+ gallons and arent too hard to tune
what i do is, spend money for racing and go mid class for bashing

SManMTB

No I can't come Joel. I didn't realize it was past midnight when I posted.

Just came back from the Tiltyard. Nice day but only 15 buggies so there were plenty of space to learn the track.
Ran the SP2 and TTR engine today. It handled great but as usual stuff breaks with speed and jumps.
Broke front lower arm and bent the KingHeadz tower [>:]. It was not as strong as it looked I guess. Then the battery pack died in the B-Main, time to toss that old pack and make a new one.

The engine ran fine (again). Great overall power. The 8mm venturi gave a bit more on the top. I should get paid to say all this.

slicks

Christian -- just re-read your other post and saw the time.

Sounds like you had fun at the Tiltyard! Did ED get a chance to show up?

Have a good time in DC tomorrow!

SManMTB

No Ed wasn't there. A big part of the CVRC crew were there. Gentry and so on.
It was fun but I'm bummed out that I destroyed the nice bling
Ahh well.... got a new SP2 front tower for $20 so it's all good.

Good luck tomorrow -- lean that engine out.

Go Team CORR

aangelet

Since you're "soaking up" info, I suppose I could throw in a couple more tidbits.

First, there are a bunch of decent engines out there. The ones that have been mentioned are tried and true. The thing that you have to watch out for, and I really don't mean to offend anyone, is that there are many that will make comments about how fast an engine is compared to others without actually having first hand information. Even in cases where there is first hand information, the "data" is skewed because of many factors. For example, I've read that one guy saw an O.S. V-Spec get "beat" by some .27 engine (or some sort of that nature). Personally, I find that hard to believe, but that may have happened. Maybe the V-Spec was being run "fat" (rich) and the other was being run super lean.

My point is that "fast" isn't necessarily what you should be looking for. What you want is dependability and ease of tuning. You also want to run your engine "comfortably." You don't want to run it in a manner where you are always eeking every last bit of power that the engine is capable of making. This is a good way to lead your engine to an early death. Don't worry about drag racing. That isn't what buggies are built for.

Get a good engine. If you are on a budget, I'd go for either the O.S. RG, or if you can allow a bit more money, go for one of the Novarossi 3 ports that were mentioned above. The Novas do perform better than the O.S., the question is only whether you will be able to take advantage of the bit of extra power.

Where you'll really want to spend most of your time is in setting up your car. Although I haven't seen it all, I have yet to see a buggy come out of a box ready to race. Spend your time researching the effects of caster, camber, toe in, shock spring rates, diff fluids, shock oils, etc. You might want to set aside $50 or so for a decent set of tools. Not all hex tools are created equal and can be the difference between getting back up and running or having to pack it all up and head in because you stripped the hex out of one of your engine mount scews when trying to change a clutch bearing.

You'll want to keep a stock of clutch bell bearings (I get mine from Avid for a buck a piece) and clutch shoes. Spare suspension arms, screws, etc. You're also gonna want to shop tires and wheels. A good set proline wheels and crime fighter tires could run you about $70 and they don't last long. I get panther wheels from Amain. I think they were $32 for 12 wheels. If you look around you can find crime fighters for $32 a set of four.

I suppose my point to this post is to try to keep you focused on what's really important. The engine is usually the least important part of your setup, as long as you have one that is dependable. Instead of spending $200 on an engine, I think you'd be better served by getting the $109 RG and spending the rest on a setup station to get that suspension in shape. You'll probably start out bashing, but that's get boring pretty quick and racing on a track is more fun than can be described. Besides, if you get the RG, once you kill it, you'll still have the carb. With this, it kind of opens up the door to getting engines that are equally inexpensive but are plagued by having lousy carbs. With the RG carb, I've been able to get good results from engines that get bad raps due to the carb that they come equipped with.

SManMTB

Very good advice right there. [sm=thumbup.gif]

I got the RG for that exact reason. I figured I would be running a lot just to practice and $109 wouldn't hurt that bad if it got screwed up. That alone made me worry less and just run that thing HARD! If it blows up ---- oh well it was only $109.
If the same would happen with a $300 engine I'd be kicking my own a**.

fastmaxxcooper

My Feedback: (5)

i have an o.s. rg and it never stalls. i have it idle very low and it won't stall. i race it and after it flips it will idle for the 3 minutes it takes for someone to go flip it. you can't go wrong with it because it has all the reliability o.s. has the reputation for.

gasrc

Here's a STS .28 (dark curves) vs. a Novarossi .21 P5 (dimmed curves).
Notice how much sooner and harder the power is delivered with the .28
Notice how much longer the power lasts with the .21..about 4500rpm more.

The .28 is more for sticking in a Savage, roll'n up to a curb and powering over it, and intermittent power needs. The .21 is for continues smooth power while the car is already in motion. This is what you want for racing. Yes, more power is always welcome if you can harness it, but it's best that it be smooth broad power for racing. If you are jsut doing burnouts, driving through grass, adn other bashing activities, the larger engines may suit you better.