happywing

A friend of mine runs an HV-Maxx 6.5 in his Hyper 7. It's fast enough to race and has great low-speed control. Top speed is just over 30mph. If you want to go faster, you'll have to go with a sensorless motor. I've seen great things from Neu and Plettenberg motors. I prefer the Neu.

Yes, you'll need a plastic spur. I think Ofna makes a 51T spur that is good for this application.

RURC

Happy is correct. Now what kind of budget are you on? There are other options but buy the best you can afford. I know the Nemisis motors have shown themselves to be reliable and good. Not a Neu or Plett but good for the money. My friend Chris Fine with Fine Designs swears by them. I have them but I prefer the Neu over all others. The best thing to do is change the gear but I have done a few that you could not do this to and just left them. They work but are very noisy. They CAN also generate electrical interference.


Happywing- I will try to get to weigh everything tomorrow.


SIDE BAR: the Novak stuff is way under powered for this application.

happywing

RURC,
I've become very partial to Neu motors as well. It's hard to recommend anything else. We have not had good luck with Feigao or Nemesis motors.
I agree with your side bar to an extent. I used an HV 6.5 for a couple of races and was able to keep up. I've also raced against a Duratrax Raze conversion that did quite well with the 6.5. The 4400 and 4.5 move a buggy at a good clip, but they have a lot of trouble with heat. Yes, the Novak's are overworked in this application. However, the HV 6.5, geared correctly, is a viable option for someone on a budget. It might even be the better choice for a new driver as it doesn't have the torque to get too loose. All that said, it's definitely not the best choice for a competitive (A-Main) buggy. Definitely not the best choice for taking on hot nitros.
We have an indoor facility in the area where we race the conversions in the winter. It's a dirt track, but as you can understand, it would be considered a smaller/slower track than most that are outdoors...Too much for the Neu. When that season comes around (not too fast I hope), I will put my HV 6.5 back in my buggy. It offers better control and smoother acceleration at low speeds.

RURC

Try running the HV motor on your MM.

OK here is updated photos. First, a change. My buddy is out of stock on the servos so I am going to use servos from a company called Blue Bird. They are a very good servo. Generally you find them as a OEM servo and several companies use their components in their servos. Those OEM ones are mostly from their line of servos with bushings not ball bearings. But their top line servos are full ball bearing servos. Our 2 servos are their top line high torque and high speed. The braking servo is 141 in oz and the steering is 195. Both are full ball bearing with metal gears and I have used them before. They are a great servo and the price is great, $40 each retail. It also helped that I keep several of these around the shop so I did not have to leave or order anything. Well here are the photos.



(above) The first thing that pops out to you is the white plastic on the bottom side of the chassis in the photo. It is a piece of UMPH plastic. I put this down to protect the battery from the hard and sharp edges of the chassis. It is the bottom of my battery area because it is insanely strong and resilant. You can thread it easily also. the next thing you see is the braking servo. I have mounted it this way because the motor is going on the same side and if it was left long way it would interfere with the motor placement. Like this I have a lot of room for the motor placement. On some cars I have moved the brake servo opposite the steering servo but here I wanted to try something different. It may work great or it may not. Next you see the esc. It is mounted on a plate that goes from the center diff to the rear support brace. It is attached to the brace with a clamp I make that is very secure. The plate is just a piece of 6061 that was cut on a band saw (remember I am trying to avoid the CNC since most do not have access to that) and finished with a file.



Here (above) you can see the clamp I made better on the rear brace. You can also see another piece of 6061 that has been used to cover the diff gear. This is done to protect the battery if it were to shift. that gear can eat into the battery like it is warm butter. You also get a better view of the UMPH.



Here (above) you get a better view of the servos and the mounting of the braking servo. The force from the braking goes away from the center of the chassis.



Here (above) is a close up on the ESC mount and you can again see the braking servo. The ESC is mounted high and clear from the main chassis deck for protection and ease of cooling. As necessary cooling holes will be added to the body to help in the cooling.

One note to point out I am using all the original hardware. The original bolts have been kept or have been exactly matched to keep the uniformity. One exception is the mount brackets for the brake servo. Those are for an Ofna. I keep those around because they are great for mounting servos in all kinds of cars. Also I have used all original holes in the chassis.

happywing

I have never tried running my HV6.5 with the MM, but why would I? The system works fine as-is. If it ain't broke...

Your new buggy looks good.
I didn't like the BlueBird servos I tried, but a lot of poeple are happy with them.
I don't like using disc brakes/brake servos. ESC brakes do cause a lot of heat, but for me, the extra weight of brakes and a servo to push them is not worth it.
I like your ESC mounting plate. It can be used to very effectively cool your MM if you put a hole in your plate and mount a fan underneath. We are having great success with cooling the MM by drilling holes in the bottom and sides of the MM case and blowing a fan (the fan is mounted under the ESC plate) through the holes. It's a 20 degree improvement and a must for running 20-minute mains. Check out the pics on this page:[link]http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=158327&page=12[/link]
Your diff gear cover is a great idea. I'm going to try to incorporate that in my next conversion, except that I'll use plastic.

RURC

To me this is one of the main reasons why creativity and new ideas dont happen. Settling for what is there or doing it one way because everyone else dose is no way to advance concept. Trying new things just because they are different and no one else id doing it is the best thing. That is why 7 years ago I was one of the original guys using lipo in cars. I used to have to build 2s4p packs just to build up the C ratings so they could handle the draws in cars. I had to buy single cells and make my own packs. The only thing available were small packs that could handle 10 to 15 amp drains. But these limitations did not stop me. I could see the writing on the walls. This was the future. Now I test for most of the major manufacturers in lipo and brushless. I do prototype building for a couple car manufacturers also.

Thank you. My goal on this car is to try things that I thought of in the past and put them to the full test. For one reason or another I could not use the idea where I thought of it. Mostly because I did not want to make a client a test bed. The Blue Bird servos for me are like the GWS receivers. There are better ones on the market but how far down the scale are these units? Well I really like the digital Multiplex and Hitec servos. I use them a lot. But they cost a fortune for not that much performance gain. Now in my client built cars I will only use the Multiplex and Hitec servos. The reason for this is that I can not afford for a client to not be impressed or to have a failure and them say it was that inferior part. Some people swear by Airtronics or Futaba. For me it is Multiplex, Hitec and Nomadio. I was a hooked on Hitec and Multiplex before they joined together. But For my personal cars I will try new things and if something breaks because of a poor decision it effects me not a client. SO I like to play with things like GWS and Blue Bird. If you only knew how many top line companies used parts from them you would faint. Almost every large company in RC uses components from them in one form or another.

For racing I prefer the servo brakes over the electric ones. It also puts a ton less wear and tear on the ESC and battery. Just by going to the servo brakes you can increase run times by 40%. Remember under braking it is not uncommon to see peaks in the high 200 amp area. That is more than twice what you are seeing on acceleration let alone running.

I have dont the fan thing from the top but i had not tried the bottom. I will look into that. It may have possibilities.

happywing

RURC,

I am as creative as I can afford to be. Whether it be time or money, most people have limitations. My HV-Maxx though, has been very reliable and will try it's best to do what I ask. I don't want to mess with it.

Most servos do the job. Everyone has different reasons for their choice. I prefer Futaba because of a long history. I've used them since the 80's with virtually no problems.

We do recognize the issue with brakes/spikes/heat. We have our brakes dialed out quite a bit. I find that I get way too much brake with the default settings anyway. Drag-brake has to be off too.

The holes in the MM combined with a fan was big. You'll notice the difference.

RURC

That was not directed at you. It was a general statment about your statemnt. Lets be serious you are building brushless 1/8 buggies. That it self is out side the box.

I just got another SHO pro so this is going to become a double build thread also. That other one I am going to go with the motor forward and split packs. I think that building the 2 differentially at the same time and then running them to see the differences will be fun.

happywing

I guess that came across as being a little defensive. What I really meant was that I wish I could afford (both money and time) to experiment more. Sounds like you have a whole room or rooms full of stuff. That's what I want!

The "double-build" sounds like double-fun.

If you can keep posting pics and info in this thread, that would be great. There's already a lot of good info here. I'd like to see it continue. I'm 100% behind anyone who converts or wants to make an attempt at it. Whether it be a home-build, a kit conversion or even RTR, like you make. The more the better. I did my first conversion about a year-and-a-half ago. There weren't too many around then. It is growing at a furious rate! Once Tekin and Castle get their crap together and give us a big controller, this conversion trend will get a shot in the arm. Can't wait!

Keep up the good work.

junebug48

My Feedback: (138)

[8D]hi . thank's for the help guy's . i think that i will hold off on making it electric untill i get enough money to get the neu motor . but i was wondering what esc should i get ? just lmk . thank's for the help .

happywing

junebug48 - Right now, I think the Mamba Max is the best choice. It is being pushed in this application, but all of the big controllers have a negative. The MM at $125 is a great deal. Around here, we are having a lot of success with it. That said, if you're not converting now, wait on the controller. The Mamba Monster Max or the New Tekin "big truck" controllers are supposedly on the horizon.

junebug48

My Feedback: (138)

[8D]hi . thank's for the head's up and i am looking for one that will keep up to nitro buggy's i am runing on a off road out side track with a good size straight away but it has some tricky spot's also . will that esc and motor be good for this track ? just lmk . thank's .

happywing

For sure. You will have no trouble keeping up. You still have to drive good.

I use the Neu 1512 2d/f, but a lot of people run the 1512 2.5d/f. I see the 2.5d/f recommended most often. I can only say that my 2d/f does the job. My highest temps (160's) were recorded on a 97 degree day.

happywing

This is in response to a PM from junebug48. I thought I'd put it here for everyone. This is a link to the Ofna 51T spur gear that's commonly used for conversions:
[link]http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBM16&P=7[/link]

DJ1978

Very interesting discussion.
Lots of choices as far a motors and ESC's go.
What I have found is that even with the older NOVAk HV Maxx 4400 I run, my car is plenty fast.. but can't handle the load like the Nue Mamba Max Combination does. Racing against Happywing I usually thermal in the last portion of the race while he flys by me. My Hyper 7 is plently fast. But the NOVAK KV rating is very high and they have an over heating problem.

I have developed bolt in conversion kit for the Hyper 7, Losi 8 and Mugen MBX5 and 5R. I am working on the 777 and STR along with the Duratrax Raze conversions now.
How do you post pics on this site? I will post some of the conversions.
Or email me for some pics.
I do sell all these conversions. They will be listed with pics and pricing on my web site at www.rcproductdesigns.com later this week.
Dan

thopper

DJ1978...do you have a motor mount for the hyper8?

RURC

Hello.
Look the best way to post photos here is to use a hosting site. I use PHOTOBUCKET. It is free and they do videos and other stuff with images. One you do this all you need is click on the button up top that says IMAGE and then a thing that looks like this
'[img][/img]" will appear. I hope you can see that, I dont know if it will show because is is a HTML command. Then you goto your PHOTOBUCKET sight and left click on the link below your photo that says "URL link" then paste that in between the brackets on that say IMAGE on them in your post. I hope this helps.

happywing

The RC Product Design website has conversion kits and replacement parts.
[link]http://www.rcproductdesigns.com/EigthScaleParts.htm[/link]
The conversion is becoming possible for just about anyone. This electric revolution is really picking up steam.
Here are some pics of the conversion kits for the 8ight (EL8) and Hyper 7 (EH7):

EH7


EL8

DJ1978

Thanks for posting those pics.
The EH7 is shown with the optional CF top plate.
The EL8 is the first one I made.
The kit has black delrin battery box and a top plate designed to hold the Mamba Maxx ESC.
You can see additional pics on the web site.
There is also a kit for the MBX5,5R and MBX4.
In the works are kits for the Kyosho 777 and STR.

SeanF

Are any of the manufacturers working on an electric 1/8 scale? When would we start to see these?

Thanks!

RURC

There is a possible one that will try to get ready for the Chicago show. Right now this is up in the air a little. It depends on several of the concepts getting finished in time. There will be a 1/8 on road there.

RURC

I forgot to add that I am on back order on my motors. And the second buggy has not arrived so I am in a holding pattern for now. But all is not lost. I am working on other "projects from hell" as my wife calls them.

RURC

I got the 2nd buggy in today.


Ok now I have to get going on this shortly. I am still BO on the motors. I am having a couple of custom things done with th emotors so this could be another few weeks. But I can start on the rest of the car now.

steve671

Did this project die?

RURC

No not dead just having to hold it for a little while. I am having to get ready for iHobby. I have been invited to do demos and speak on large scale brushless to the industry so I am building 8 very special cars and working on my full 1/8 scale brushless. Not a conversion a full build designed for brushless electric. There will be a several off the shelf parts but the layout and design will be special for brushless. These cars will all have their debut at iHobby in Chicago. As I get things caught up I will get back on these. I have just, as usual, bit off a very big bite.