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Thread: RC Surfer


  1. #4826
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    RE: RC Surfer

    Hey Ray,

    You need to remove the rudder cap to get to the rudder.
    It might have a thin layer of silicone that sealed it.


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    RE: RC Surfer



    JIMI"S SURF REPORT

    Hey Fellow Addicts,



    Woke up early this morning and took the old 2 Pole 3900KV Fiageo out of the NQD and put in a 4 pole 3650 3900KV Leopard. 
    Went down to "Stockfence" and it was crankin' 2 to 3 foot sets and strong NE wind. 
    The tide was quite high, only 4 or 5 inches of the fence post out of the water so the keyhole was handling all but the biggest sets. 
    On the biggest sets there were some really nice long wally rights on the south and the main break lefts on the north of the keyhole. 
    Mostly surfed the keyhole but did venture right out back for several big rights. 
    The new motor definately made an good improvement in the trying conditions. 
    Ran 8 packs again today, broke an o-ring on the second pack but was back in the water 5 minutes later. 
    Motor and ESC are running cool, with the timing set on 0 and batteries are coming out luke warm on a 32mm prop. 
    The board came home bone dry in the hull and motor compartment again. 
    Thinkin' about making an aluminium bi-fin with the fins swept back at more of an angle.  
    Might start working on that tonight after work. 
    Awesome board for a 2s NQD! 

    JIMI

    My work here is done !

  3. #4828
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    RE: RC Surfer

    Another great session JIMI

    Makes me want to move to Aus - BUT - they say its not as safe their anymore, as you have over 500 000 South Africans living their now.......LOL

    From what I understand about the brush-less motor poles - the 2 pole is faster than the 4 pole - BUT - the 4 pole has more torque than the 2 pole.

    In your case your 2 pole had a higher kv than the 4 pole - so "theoretically" - here I go calculating things again .............. the 4 pole would have been slower due to its lower rated kv r and assumed lower RPM based on the 4 pole RPM/Hz ratio.

    What was the 'improvements' you found ?

    Could you feel more Punch when triggering the throttle ?

    Did the run time improve?

    Did you increase the prop pitch ? - more speed !

    Regards
    Dominic (Bro'Surfer)


    Bro rc Surfer

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  4. #4829
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    RE: RC Surfer

    Some gumph I copied from a rc forum discussing brushless motor pole comparisons. Makes for interesting reading.............


    Poles are the number of sets of three-way electromagnetic windings that a motor has.

    In the simplest three-phase motor, there are 3 separate electromagnets formed by the single set of three-way windings. Thus, there is a set of North-South electromagnetic poles formed. This motor is said to have "2 poles" (although strictly speaking, the motor has 6 electromagnetic poles).

    As the three voltage phases, each 120 degrees off from one another, gradually rise and fall, the strength of each electromagnetic winding set rises and falls in relation to the frequency of the voltage changes. This causes the rotor to rotate once per voltage cycle. In a 60 Hertz system, this results in a base speed of 60 Hertz, or 3600 rpm. A 50 Hertz system has a base speed of 3000 rpm.

    The next most complex motor has two sets of three phase windings, and is called a "4-pole motor". It is the most common motor produced, and has a 60 Hertz base speed of 1800 rpm (the 50 Hertz speed is 1500 rpm).

    6-pole motors operate at 1200 rpm (1000 rpm at 50 Hertz). 8-pole motors operate at 900 rpm (750 rpm at 50 Hertz). "

    As can be seen more poles means slower motor given voltage and frequency remain the same.
    As brushless motors are Permanent magnet machines some of the quoted material doesn't apply so its possible to have a 2 pole motor faster than a 4 pole motor due to different winding configuration {more turns}


    Bro rc Surfer

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    RE: RC Surfer

    Dom,

    They are both 3900KV motors.
    Same 32mm prop.

    Seemed just as fast as before but a little bit more powerful, didn't seem to struggle so much in the bigger sets and strong semi-offshore bluster.

    The old Fiageo motor has been flogged and had plenty of baths but refuses to die.
    I have not measured runtimes on either set up, I don't wear a watch.

    Have not weighed the board yet either, but it is pretty heavy, must be just over 2KG.
    Might weigh it later.

    JIMI
    My work here is done !

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    RE: RC Surfer

    I have been running a 27 mm prop - I would be interested to know what approximate run time you are realizing with the 32 mm.


    Bro rc Surfer

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    RE: RC Surfer

    Hey Domski,

    I weighed my NQD board, it is 2058g with battery. (2s Zippy Compact 5800mAh 25C)
    CG is at 41%
    32mm prop
    3900KV Motor
    60A Turnigy ESC

    Given that information what do you calculate my runtime should be approx.???

    I would like to know that too, but don't have a watch or a mobile phone to measure with.
    I will see if I can get my **** together and get a time for ya.

    I estimate I am getting about 16 to 17 mins but need to take some specific readings over 8 packs and average out the findings.
    I don't really stop very much unless there is long lulls.

    I am really spewing because I have no vide or pics from the last few weeks sessions. 
    Bob has been down south surfing for the last few weeks getting fit for his trip to Indo.
    He is back but has gone to the Abrolhos Is. surfin for  few days.
    The surf there would be massive at the moment, so I will be interested to hear all about it when he gets back.
    He is keen to try to get some pics or vid on the weekend but I think Sat will be crap.
    Sun could be good though.

    I am thinking of buying a decent Panasonic or Canon camcorder and tripod and just letting it run on the general surf zone.
    Anything would be better than having so many great runs and nothing at al to show for it.

    Do you recomend any particular model?

    JIMI
    My work here is done !

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    RE: RC Surfer

    Hey JIMI

    Thanks for the info

    Calculating 'Run Times' can be like guessing the length of a piece of string........ as the driving style - board weight - hull design - prop size - shaft efficiency- battery discharge rating -steering servo draw - surf conditions and water temperature....etc etc........... all effect the resultant.

    Given that -knowing the board and seeing the surf you surf - I guess you should be in the ball park of 15 minutes. ( good time for a smoke break)

    I am yet to try a 32 mm prop - I may just be expending to much RPM......the bigger prop could give me more distance for less RPM........my motor and esc run very cool so there is room for more load.

    Keep the info flowing - you have to get a watch.............its really cool knowing the time. You may not stay up so late.....................LOL

    About the hand cam - we have a very basic set up - not much zoom.
    A tripod set up would not give you much close up action. You lose the impact of these little buggers when filmed from a distance.

    I am so disappointed with the GoPro's lack of ability to film close up 'enough' ...........I need binoculars just watching the footage on my pc screen.

    Try and find a inexpensive digital hand cam with good image stabilizing - 16 MG memory card strap it to a peak cap - and direct your own true blue surf movies.

    Regards
    Dominic ( Bro'Surfer)



    Bro rc Surfer

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  9. #4834
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    RE: RC Surfer

    Dom,

    Yeah I think you are right about the run time.
    I would change my estimate to 14 to 15 minutes per pack average session, if I am lucky. Maybe even 13 to 14.
    I could ditch some lead to get more time but of course that would effect the CG and self righting in the howling winds we get here often.
    I am happy to sacrifice a minute here or there for a board that surfs well and is suitable to my average conditions.
    I think I have lost a bit of run time with the change in motors but as I never timed it I will never really know will I?
    It does seem to have a bit more power now and no loss of speed so I guess you don't get nothing for nothing.

    Ran 8 packs again today in the keyhole.
    I even ran directly into the railway iron post at speed after finishing a ride and turning to power back out, LOL.
    Hit it straight on and stopped dead in its tracks, lucky I had the ol' surfcurls nosegaurd on.
    The nosegaurd has a small scrape and a tiny bt of plastic hanging off.
    Hard work in the strong NE wind but got plenty of cool waves.
    I wish we would get a straight eastery for once. 

    I am stoked to have a cheap production board that gets hammered so much and stays totally dry and does not break down anymore.
    There is absolutely nothing stock about this board at all anymore so I guess my next step is to shape a hull and transfer my ideas to a custom.
    But......... I just can't be bothered. LOL. I think I would just make a big mess.
    Anyway, I am way too busy surfin' the plastic in my spare time.
    Maybe one day I will have a go, then again, maybe not.

    I am also using  an Octura cable drive with a thrust bearing in this board. and the motor is moved forward a bit with a home made mount to fit the 161mm long Compact bats.

    Hope you are getting plenty of good waves Dude.

    JIMI

    My work here is done !

  10. #4835
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    RE: RC Surfer

    Hey JIMI

    Anything close to 15 minutes surf time, running a 2s set up is Great ! Remember - its about $20 more expensive for every added cell so in your case having 8 batteries - if you were running a 3s set up - you would only have afforded 4 batteries - and the run times would be pretty similar. ( half the run time for your buck..............)

    Building a Custom Board is a great experience - but - if you are already enjoying the STOKE with what you have - that is Great to.

    For myself - the design & development is a big part of the experience - and effectively 'excluding my invested time' the board only cost $200 all in.

    I would imagine a production board - including all its required 'changes' to make it 'surf able' could come in at $400 when all is said and done - so for those starting from scratch - Custom is a good option.

    Regards
    Dominic (Bro'Surfer)




    Bro rc Surfer

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    RE: RC Surfer



    Jimi & Dom- I know that you don't really care what a Yank Sepohas to say but I need to give you my 2 cents on your last discussionanyway. Don't write back telling me I'mwrong please!Downthe road if youhave the inkling try it.Jimi, I think that you arerunning an inefficient set up.3900kv on 32mm prop is over sizes. I am running aFiegao 540S- 2400 kv motor, 30mmx 1.4 pitch prop, Iuse up aprox 4500 mAh (3 cell) and go all over the place at balistic speeds and go for easy30 min. My weight is 4.5 Lbs. about the same. I do howeverhave a solid shaft on Bronze bushings which is les****g that yourFlex shaft. (more reasonfor youto go lower KV, same prop)
    Today I switched to a new prop of the same size but not carved down over a long time and it seemedtouse up the battery quicker thanmy old prop. That made me think I am even on the over size on prop. Top end was insane.
    Our swell is going off but holiday crowds and not favorable tide and wind combo. Aloha, Karl


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    RE: RC Surfer

    Hey Shredders,
    I went down to the south side this morning, to a place called "South Pipe".
    Well, I couldn't believe my eyes.
    There was consistent solid 3 foot sets and no closeouts fanned by a strong NE wind, it looked sick..
    A very high tide combined with a deep gutter was creating long fast rights and winding wally lefts all the way from out back to the shorie.
    I quickly grabbed my gear and took my 6'0" and wettie too because I had to walk in about 150m to set up right where the lefts hit the shorebreak and thought if I have a breakdown the board will be a mile out to sea before I can get back to the car and get the rescue equipment.
    It was freezing.

    Anyway I sat at the lefts while 3 or 4 surfers were having fun on the rights.
    It was awesome surf for the the Dude but was quite powerful.
    Broke an o-ring on the third pack so brang him in and changed that quickly.
    Sent him back out to finish the 3rd and when he came in I noticed his front leg was snapped off at the knee.
    No problem, I bandaged him up with electrical tape and surfed for the next five packs without incident.
    Got some amazing waves and got him totally tubed on one and made it out to finish with a full speed flick out in the shorie.
    One guy came over from the rights for a while but the little Kyosho Dude with the bandaged knee dominated the sets and the guy eventually went back to the rights.
    Man that was an epic session, but now I have an operation to do on my little Dude's leg.
    Yeeeeeooooowwwww!!!!!!!!!

    My work here is done !

  13. #4838
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    RE: RC Surfer

    Hey Karl,

    I don't care if you came down from Uranus.
    The way you and your little Dude surf I will listen to whatever you have to say mate.

    I only run 2s and I tried a 30mm and a 32mm prop that Fishi sent me.
    I thought I liked the 32mm better but maybe I should try the 30mm again or even a smaller one.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us, it is appreciated

    JIMI
    My work here is done !

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    RE: RC Surfer

    Karl,

    What KV motor do you suggest would be best suited for max runtime / speed combo with my 4.5lb 2s flex 30mm or 32mm prop setup?

    JIMI
    My work here is done !

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    RE: RC Surfer

    Surf Forecast - Smaller surf tomorrow down to 2 foot with lighter NE winds and slightly lower tide.
    No prizes for guessing where I will be at dawn.

    JIMI
    My work here is done !

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    RE: RC Surfer

    Hi Karl

    Thanks for the info - I'm keen to see how your latest mod pans out.

    Your set up really does 'fly' like a rocket on the face..............dont know how Hugh keeps up with you LOL and 30 minutes run time is very impressive. From the footage I have seen - its seems that you mostly surf the reef breaks which allows you to avoid 'wrestling' with the dreaded white water, which seriously saps battery power.

    I would not say any of what folk are running is 'right or wrong' - its purely what works for them. Opinions are just that - personal perspectives.

    My $20 worth of opinion........LOL .......for free !LOL

    My 'personal' overall take on the rc Surfer is - trying to find a sweet combination of 'Cost relative to Performance' that satisfies the surfer.

    I am swinging a plastic 27 mm prop using a cheap 3900kv motor - 2s (5000 mAh) solid shaft, Brass tube bushing. Must be the cheapest Brush-less combo surfing. My run-times vary from 15 minutes in open beach break riding ( plenty of white water to overcome) to 25 minutes in point breaks ( very little white water to overcome)

    As I shared with JIMI earlier - for every (40C) cell you step up - generally you are paying $20 more. So you can purchase 2 X 2s for the cost of 1 X 3s - factor that in = with a 2s set up I am able to purchase twice as many battery packs to enjoy even more time in total, than what a 3s set up would offer me.

    I dont need more speed/power than what I currently have and the smaller prop (27mm) produces way less torque roll.
    The 2s is also lighter than a 3s - about 100 grams which helps me establish the correct CG without adding counter weight.

    JIMI Try a 27mm Prop if you have not - it should increase you run time further.

    Regards
    Dominic (Bro'Surfer)




    Bro rc Surfer

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    RE: RC Surfer

    Karl and Dom,

    OK guys, thanks guys, you both know a hell of a lot more about RC than me, so I have some questions for you both.

    If I go down in prop size I gather that my speed will decrease, is that right?
    So then to try to recover my lost speed I will need to up the timing on the esc, is that right?
    Then my motor and esc will run hotter, is that right?

    So, f I prop down to 27mm and up the timing from 0 degrees to say 15 degrees,

    A)     Will I get the same speed I am getting now?
    B)     Will I get longer runtimes?
    C)     Will my motor and esc get really hot?
    D)     What effect will this have on my batteries life or performance if any at all?

    Thanks .

    JIMI

    My work here is done !

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    RE: RC Surfer

    Hey JIMI

    I run the 3900 kv motor @ 0 timing - current board weight 1900 grams - 27 mm prop - with good speed.

    All I find when adjusting the timing up from 0 degree's is that you lose the bottom end 'punch' the motor does rev a tad higher - but I dont find it significant. It will run hotter and shorten run times.

    I doubt whether currently you find yourself running on the face with WOT ( wide open throttle) - which would mean you can prop down and take advantage of the better gearing (pitch prop) - less load.
    You may even find with the 27mm, it runs at similar speed, as the motor will certainly rev a touch higher as apposed to when running the 32mm.

    Try it - Ive got 25 in stock if you need one................LOL

    Regards
    Dominic (Bro'Surfer)




    Bro rc Surfer

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  19. #4844
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    RE: RC Surfer

    Thanks again Dom,

    This topic is great!

    Given the scale of things, 160g is quite a bit extra for a 2s to throw around, I am sure you would agree.
    I have calculated my board is 8.32% heavier than yours. LOL.

    You might be a little bit surprised but I actually do use the WOT quite a lot racing sections on big set waves out back and in short bursts doing full speed cutbacks into the pocket and carving under the lip in the hollow sections.

    I really don't want my board any lighter or slower at all, so I guess the trade off is in my runtime.

    As I said before, it is running fast, and cool and staying very dry and surfing quite well for a 2s NQD.

    If I can only get half the runtime of others, then that is fine with me, just means I change packs twice as often that's all.
     
    Cheers.

    JIMI
    My work here is done !

  20. #4845
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    RE: RC Surfer

    Hey Karl,

    I don't know what you have heard mate, but I don't dislike Americans. 

    Except for George Bush of course and oh yeah, there is one other guy.......... 

    I think your surfer is awesome and you are actually my favourite RC Surfer on the whole planet.

    I love seeing your pics and vids more than any others.

    They always seem to look the most realistic to me.

    Thanks.

    JIMI
    My work here is done !

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    RE: RC Surfer

    Hey JIMI

    The weight difference is relevant to the load - BUT - the circumference size of the prop (leverage) could be an even bigger factor concerning load on the motor.
    Karl is running a 30mm diameter, with somewhat 'more power' AND less intended RPM.

    For your motor to work efficiently at WOT it needs to get up to it MAX RPM as easy as possible - there is very little chance that that is happening with a 32 mm prop.
    The smaller prop will allow the RPM to pick up. You may find that you will have quicker acceleration and punch...

    Speed = Pitch x RPM

    Try to find a plastic 27 mm prop at a local hobby store and just try it - you may be pleasantly surprised at the results...............

    Regards
    Dominic (Bro'Surfer)


    Bro rc Surfer

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    RE: RC Surfer

    Dom,

    I am gonna have to order some on line.
    Nowhere here to buy them.
    I will do it now.
    Your explanation is cool, can't wait to try some 27's.

    Thank you.
    JIMI
    My work here is done !

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    RE: RC Surfer

    Domski,
    Got a link to your 27mm props?
    JIMI
    My work here is done !

  24. #4849
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    RE: RC Surfer

    Dom.
    I was gonna get some of Fishi's 5 pack 27's  but they are on back order.

     I see you use Octura.

    Do you break many?

    I used to use Octura X431 and Y531, I liked them but they broke all the time.

    JIMI
    My work here is done !

  25. #4850
    YPC's Avatar
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    RE: RC Surfer

    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=13204

    All of $3.15 - use the mail packaging.

    I have only used these - they dont break with the 7.4 v packs - but do occasionally break with the 11.1.

    If you cant get any I will post you a pack of 5 - send me your address.


    Bro rc Surfer

    " freely sharing the STOKE ! "

    Bro's RCU Custom Post : CLICK - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-b...om-boards.html
    YouTube Page : CLICK - http://www.youtube.com/user/formulaish
    facebook page: CLICK - https://www.facebook.com/Bro********

    ​'SEA - ING is BELIEV - ING'


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