SyCo_VeNoM

Well in my case I dream up projects than HAVE to build them or I don't get any sleep.
Its like right now I'm building a 1/10th scale buggy based on various manufacturers parts.
Prior to it I had the truck tank thing I built prior bouncing around in my head.

tmaxx1701

I would go for the Baja 5SC also. Just too much $$ for my budget.

supertib

I was trying to help you with some sound technical advice on truggies...however it gets frustrating when some guys start spewing garbage about something they know nothing about........Sorry to let a flame war happen, but these forums are full of knowitalls who really don't know very much.........Get a D8T, you wont regret it for a second..make sure to get quality servos and a quality engine and it will be a pile of fun ! Truggies are not only great racers, but they are excellent bashers....The D8T has awesome parts support online and is one of the very best Truggies on the market, and absolutely by far the best value in the Truggy market........great machine !

ThunderbirdJunkie

My Feedback: (3)

Just like the receiver pack and glow ignitor, eh? Just sayin'.

The sealed backplate allows for more consistent tuning because the engine doesn't have a point where it leaks designed into it, like it does with a pullstart.

supertib

My dream RC is a basher Truggy built with the quality of the racers, but beefed up a little extra for bashing....More of a rearward weight balance as well then the current racers would be nice.....maybe a shorter chassis to take some stability out wouldn't hurt.......

dracy69

My Feedback: (1)

I would liek to build a Twinzilla just for fun.

I have most of a Savage left over after the amount of aftermarket hop-ups and factory updates I did to my 25. Maybe if I can find a kit somewhere I will do it.

supertib

there is no contest between a pullstart and a bumpbox..... once a hobbyist graduates into a starter box they rarely will want to even use a pullstart again..... I run my glow ignitor off my starter box battery as well..makes things super convenient and easy.... no slipping OWB's, no leaky backplates, no broken pullstart cords, no dead glow ignotors.....just drop my truggy down and vroom its running............no hassle, no fuss..... I use 4c lipo packs in my starter box, I have spare batteries and all my buddies also have starter boxxes...so there hasn't been a day yet where I couldn't start my machine..if my starter box is dead ( which has not happened ) I can always just use one of my buddies.... And to make things even better we all have a set of jumper wires which we can run directly to our cars battery..so no matter what we always have juice to start our engines...never a dead glow ignotor, never a dead starter battery, and if the odd chance we did have a dead battery we can just juper to our cars...

As for the engine, all OWB shafts leak crankcase vacuum, why is it the pullstart cord is always soaked with fuel ? if fuel can leak, so can vacuum....the difference between a OWb backplate and a sealed backplate is night and day.... Sealed engines run much stronger, idle better and tune better...... Which is why manufacturers will never make a race spec engine with a OWB...the high timed race engines will not tolerate a leaky backplate nearly as well as a low timed sport engine.....I have run several engines as pullstart then converted to bumpstart and the difference is nigh and day...maybe soon I will do a dyno pull just to show the difference....

Ttowntoolman

Look up convenience in the dictionary. You'll see a pull start engine sitting there. Bump boxes are anything but convenient. Okay, say you're bumbling around in the yard about 100 yards away...and it flames out. We'll assume the flameout is just a well-worn glow plug making it's presence known. Now with a pull start engine all you have to do is walk up to it, pop the ignitor on, yank once, and it's alive again. But with a bump box you have to lug either the car back to the box or the box over to the car. If you think the second option is more convenient then you've been lobotomized.


I agree 100% with supertib the bumpbox is the answer. OK you flame out 100 yards from your bump box all you have to do is walk over to your pull starter and fire it right up again? Except that you have to take off your body to access it! Unless of coarse you have a giant hole cut in your body. [:'(] Grab it up, slap it on the box, drive it away, simple.

My dream r/c is a full scale brushless T3 that I can disable the radio gear and jump in and beat with me behind the wheel.........Er a never mind.
Maybe I just want a 1:1 electric car with giant size brushless system in it that goes way to fast and has way too much power!

supertib

if one my engines flames out it usually means something is wrong and the machine needs to be inspected.... my engines just dont randomly flame out.... if they flame out there is usually a mechanical reason for it......See pullstart engines are much much more prone to flaming out them bumpstart engines..heck we run 45 minute races and don't flame out once....Thats 45 minutes of running full out at race pace........If a glowplug goes bad it needs to be changed anyways........ If one of my engines starts flaming out I usually like to tear the head off and make sure I have no ingested dirt..the stupidest thing I could do is keep on re- firing the engine, as if dirt got in continuing to run the engine will just destroy it......

Another dream RC would be a hybrid MT/Truggy that is capable of being bumpstarted, but has the wheely capabilities of a MT.....I loved driving the MT's, but the maintenance and lack of bumpstart kills it for me.........Once you get a taste of a high performance race engine there is just no going back to sport RTR engines....the performance is a huge step upwards and so is the fun factor....

dracy69

My Feedback: (1)

what? I'm sorry but where in the world did you come up with that?

kaiser01

YUP, i'm psyched.

supertib

from experience my friend ! OWB backplates leak, any engine with a vacuum leak is much more prone to stalling then one with no leak......the general reliability difference betwen a sealed and and a non sealed engine can be quite large........

dracy69

My Feedback: (1)

ok, firstly you are over stating the differences. the amount of air that can travel through the shaft is extroidinarily small. even relative to these engines.

second, every nitro engine with a non sealed BP is tuned around this leak. The most a leak that small could ever do is lean the engine out, albeit an unnoticeable amount. It's like saying the OWB creates a noticeable amount of drag, it doesn't.

most flame outs are from things like bad glow plugs, bad tune (fuel mixture and mechanical linkages), air filter blockage, or loss of back pressure. the only way a vacuum leak could effect the engine from a reliability standpoint was if it were to occur suddenly, if it was a constant then it will stay constant and not effect the engine.

378

My Feedback: (4)

Apparently toy cars are serious business. And here I thought we were just here to have fun, not flame people who don't want to lug around a heavy chunk of aluminum every time they want to start their car. Oh well, if you guys want it, have at ye!

Honestly guys, the only reason I would get a bump box is if I have a four stroke. I simply can not find an FS-26C-SX anywhere, and I can't find all the parts to convert a C or C-II model to pull start. But that's simply out of necessity, and that engine would go in my monster truck anyways...which I wouldn't run very much due to parts availability and butter-soft clutch bells...and I'd convert the engine to pull start the moment I found the parts.

Funnily enough, even if I did start using the bump box regularly, I would still absolutely insist on a pull start engine. That way I wouldn't be reliant on the damn thing to have fun, if it's not working I can still crank the engine over.
I run duracells in the car and keep spares handy. I have a glow starter that uses a AA as well.


Don't need them to be charged.

Only a crappy engine is going to get any tuning issues from the start shaft bushing. Good ones don't get it until they're so worn out it's time to replace them anyways.


Besides, what about RC aircraft engines that don't have bearing supported crankshafts? They last just fine, certainly as long as their bearing-equipped counterparts, but they support the crank the same way our start shaft is supported.

The mystical key is that the oil that leaks out seals them. It's the same thing that keeps ringed engines running. Like, oh, say, the one in your car. Oil has a habit of being more viscous than air, and it tends to stick to bearing surfaces and cylinder walls quite nicely. Your bushing needs to be really far gone for it to break the oil film and leak air in, and by that point the rest of the engine is due for rebuild anyways.

IF you don't believe me on the mystical sealing properties of engine oil, find a car that blue smokes, but still runs decently besides, and run a compression test on the bad cylinders. A dry test will show well below spec(The car like this I had showed 120PSI on the bad cyl, ~175PSI on the good three), but if you put just enough oil in the cylinder to lubricate the upper compression ring it will jump up to around 200PSI or so.


Same effect keeps our backplates from leaking air around the start shaft.




Oh, and just FYI, your front ball bearing doesn't keep your glow engine vacuum tight either. That, too, is an oil film at work, this time one around the chunk of the crank the intake port resides in. Oil between this part of the crank and the block itself seals off the front of the engine vacuum wise. That's why an engine with a leaky front bearing can still run well.


What kind of moron runs their car engine where dirt has even a remote chance of getting into it? I keep my air filters nice and clean, and I make sure my fuel filters are working. No way in hell dirt's getting in my engine. So I don't need to rip it apart every time it stalls. Just pop the ignitor on and go. Geez...and you're supposed to be the experienced one here. The only time mine flames out is if I take it off fast idle before it's warmed up. Probably should replace that three year old OS 8 in the head, but eh, still starts and idles wonderfully so I can't be bothered.


Oh, I almost forgot, about once a year or so I turtle it and can't get to it before it burns up the 2.5 second supply in the fuel line. But I'm in no hurry, I can easily re-prime and re-fire it, so not a big deal.

That's nice. Come back when you spend 60-75 minutes doing donuts and driving through mud. Race pace is easy on plugs, you're never idling for more than a second or two at a time. Idle is when glow engines are most prone to shutting off for no valid reason, after all. The plug tends to cool in the longer timespan between firing cycles, and overall engine temps tend to drop a bit. When you've got some RPMs in the engine the plug is far far faaaar more likely to stay lit. That's why a bad plug still works fine 1/4 throttle and above, but is a PITA to start and won't idle for beans unless you blip it constantly.


So you can telepathically tell when one's going out? Because I can't, and the first symptom is one that likes to flame out at idle. Pop in a new plug and bam, good as new. Hence, my example. Drive out a few yards, worn plug decides now's a great time to tell you it wants to be changed, engine stalls. Because they never decide to let you know right after startup when the car's right next to both you and a new plug.

I await your flame-tastic reto-Oh, wait, you're a racer. You don't idle long enough for a dying plug to let you know it's dying. You wouldn't know the plug's bad until the element falls out. Hell I bet my engine has idled for more hours than yours last on the track.


Yes, I do acknowledge that racing is harder than bashing on the piston/sleeve. Between them being run literally as lean as they can be on fuels with the sparsest few drops of oil and the amount of time they spend revving to the moon their lifespan is a short one indeed. As a result your engines will wear out faster than mine.



Again, what kind of moron lets their engine ingest dirt? I'm assuming, since you're willing to brag about how long you've been in the hobby and how you flame people who disagree with you on trivial matters such as starting a toy car, that you're smart enough to run air and fuel filters and to keep them cleaned. Therefore there should be no way in hell that dirt can get in at all. The only way it could is if you're just full of hot air, really know absolutely nothing but think you know everything, and let your engine run on a clogged air filter until it's spitting gravel out the exhaust. I have a hunch this may be the case, as I've encountered people that respond the same way you are now and that's what ended up proving true.

So which is it? Am I assuming correctly, or is my hunch correct? Be honest, I won't flame you like you seem so prone to do. I really don't care if you use a pull start or a bump box, doesn't bother me they're not my toy cars, but I do want to get to the bottom of why you flame people who disagree with you.

Oh, and before you even load the flame thrower, my engines never ingest dirt. I clean my air filters every six tanks at maximum, sometimes earlier, and I flush my in-tank filter once monthly. If I had a tank that lacked a filter you can bet good money I'd have one in-line. Dirt can not get into my engine. Proof of this is, after two gallons, my OS still has hone marks on the sleeve from when it was made, there's no scoring whatsoever in the side of the piston, the carb works flawlessly, and there's no scratches whatsoever on the crankshaft around the intake port. These features would not be present if I neglected it in such a manner that dirt could enter it. But I shouldn't have to explain trivial stuff like this to someone who's been in the hobby seven years longer than I've been alive...you'd think after 28 years air and fuel filter maintenance would be purely muscle memory...


That's your problem. I keep mine dirt-free so I can just throw the ignitor on and yank once. Don't have to worry about munching the internals. If it flames out three times in a row or doesn't want to re-fire, I pull it in, shut it back down, throw in my single spare plug, and try again. If it still flames out a lot I pull it back in, run the engine dry, then pack it up until I can get a new glow plug, because this means both of my plugs are shot, which is likely since my spare has been in my four way even longer than the one in the engine and I use that one to confirm my ignitor is working before I ever touch the car.

Yup. Pretty damn simple. So? Big deal. My engines don't flame out frequently enough for it to be an issue, the only time they do is when the shell is off anyways, and if it does it three times in a row I retire it until I get a new glow plug in. That may be a few moments or a few days depending on whether the spare on my 4-way works better, but that's just minor details.


Seriously. The only time my engine flames out is if I trim it back down to slow idle before it's sufficiently warmed up, and at that point the body is still off anyways. I probably take the ignitor off too soon, but oh well. Once it builds a little heat it stays running juuuuust fine. Either that or it flames out because I rolled it and didn't flip it back over in time, which happens once in a while. I have yet to do that with my TC3, though, every time I flip it it ends up on it's door where it can still suck fuel.

Hack u 2

I always enjoy comming to this site to gain knowledge and techniques. You die hards are a lot of help...and I too have helped a few in my days and that is what this site is about... community! I dont want to call anyone out and am sorry for name calling...but It is frustrating because we all have set preferances and styles. We will never agree and someone always has something better/or there way is the only way. I enjoy cheap $5.00 rc's and I love $100+rc's. I make the best of what I have and you guys should too! I now have added incite into bump boxing with reasons behind it. I also realized the convienance of pull start...I am serious about these statements...I would have never had indepth thought about the pro's and cons of these 2 and I have been doing this for 20+ years...For me I don't build to have a National level car....I mix drinking with racing (bad idea I know) so I never care about top notch performance (it's about fun factor, and I have fun losing and placing near last if not last). It only matters for the top 1% anyway who win and I accept not being in that class! I am surprised no drifter dreams from anyone!
You guys are all cool dudes, and I want no conflict with no one, even though I may talk like an ***** and spell crappy with grammar errors.

supertib

till you guys have raced, and raced successfully you have absolutely no business making any assumptions about what happens on a race track, or the differences in pullstarts and bump boxes...I am sorry to sound blunt, but you really know far less then you think you do........This is somewhat pointless to argue with me over this, as your so far off base that its almost humerus....Talk to me in a few more years once you have a bit more experience and see if you still feel the same way you do today.... till then there really is no point in commenting further....

Eman77

You'll love it. 1/8 is beefy.

dracy69

My Feedback: (1)

you have no argument here other than "I know more than you, you know nothing, I don't know why but I do, I'm going to ignore the facts stated above and simply say you are wrong. for no actual reason"

the more you post the more and more apparent it is you don't know what you are talking about. You do not know the details of how a glow engine works and how fuel actually makes it from fuel tank to combustion chamber or the physics behind it. If you did then you would realize how small of an impact a sealed backplate has in terms of reliability, because the difference is literally non existant. Less weight? Fine. Less drag? Fine. Less rotating mass? Fine. combine those with other things like shaved plastics, better bearings, lighterweight drivetrain components, etc can add up to a measurable difference. I can see the point. On it's own however, a pullstart version and a sealed backplate version of an engine will show no noticeable difference in any environment.

if you don't comment further that is perfectly fine

dracy69

My Feedback: (1)

I've always eyed 1/8 buggies. The only type of car I have yet to own. If I have the time to start racing at LI Raceway this summer I may pick one up.

I haven't raced since my more local track, South Shore Hobby, closed 2 years ago give or take.

Being an HPI nut I would probably stick to an HB buggy but, what would you guys recommend?

Hack u 2

Supertib I thought you were actually cool in the beginning. But you are now an arragant deusch bag. Clearly you know everything and we are all idiots. Yes you know the most....but thats because we have dates and do other things. Supertib I do race and know you are probably the political leader at your track...Hail the King!

moe7404

a standardized sizes for clutches.

Eman77

Not sure what to recommend for HPI 1/8 buggies, but the Hot Bodies truggy D8T is pretty nice I hear. (HPI owns Hot Bodies, or is the same, or something....I forget)

I'm new to 1/8 myself - just a basher, but I love my 801XT. A 1/8 tie rod compared to a 1/10 is quite a difference. I lined them up in my 801xt build thread for a pic....

But then, cost goes up with 1/8. For everything (tires, wheels, electronics if you go electric). It sure adds up. [&:]

supertib

No I am the guy at the track who actually takes the time to help newbies like you ! Now because I am trying to tell you guys some constructive information I am a arrogant doosh ? have any of you jackasses ever thought for a second that maybe I am right, and that maybe I am telling you something that you really should be paying attention to...I know what I am saying maybe doesn't agree with what you think you know, but I can assure without question I am only telling you how it is, you can either listen to me and save yourself a pile of headache, or you can carry on and learn the hard way..in the end it is what it is and I am just telling you the truth.....Problem is you guys get all defensive when someone who actually knows something comes in here and tries to help you, and make no mistake about it, I am not arrogant, I just know what I am talking about, and I am actually trying to be helpful.........how this makes me a bad guy IDK.... That any of you can tell me a pullstart is the best way to run a nitro is almost laughable, you don't even realize how silly that statement really is ! pullstarts are horrible and there is a definite power and tuning difference.. and I can easily prove it as I am actually one of the few who owns an actual dyno .......so far to me its you guys having the bad attitudes, not the racers... the racers try to help you guys, and you turn around and call us dooshbags because you don't like the facts of what we are telling you...... grow up kids !

supertib

You are dead wrong..there is quite a difference in power..do I need to do a dyno session to prove it ? Since I own a dyno I can easily show you how wrong you are...However by the nature of your posts chances are even if I did a full dyno test, and showed the results clear as day you would still not believe me, chances are you would just accuse me of altering the facts to suit my argument.......In the end you think you know more and are going to keep on believing what you want to believe and there will be no evidence in the world will make you think any differently...as with a few in this thread you guys already know all there is to know about nitro engines and thats that !

dracy69

My Feedback: (1)

no please show me