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now the appeals begin

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Old 03-08-2013, 07:49 AM
  #1
nitrosportsandrunner
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Default now the appeals begin

following up on the Returned Nitro RC that paypal allowed the buyer to send back to me.

It arrived today.

Big surprize, nothing wrong with it!

Radio is fine. Nothing broken/bent or missing.

The buyer put 1 tank of fuel (thats all that missing from the qt of nitro) fired it up, it revved high and was loud (his words to paypal) so he shut it off and put it back in the box.

classic buyers remorse. And paypal allowed him to return it.

Now, being an honest guy, I cant re-sell it as new or even as RTR. Even tho I believe only 1 tank of fuel was used and the motor feels as it should, I cant promise that damage wasnt done to the motor by the buyer. We all know that a motor not broken in right can run but will have a shorter life and be a PITA to tune.

I have filled and appeal with paypal. In 1-2 days Paypal with either put the funds back in my account.....or require me to send it to them so they can verify that it is in working order (like they know anything about a Nitro RC)

If they just refund me, then I make out well as I get the money and keep the RC.

But even if that happens, its not worth the headache's, phone calls, emails ect I had to do.

Oh, the writing on the box looks like that of a 5 year old!
Either my buyer was uneductated...thought he wanted a nitro without doing any research about them....or he was a minor who was allowed to purchase on ebay without an adult helping him.
Maybe paypal is not soo much to fault in these bad cases we get, as are the buyers!
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:55 AM
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Default RE: now the appeals begin

I figured it would work, I have terrible hand writing but not quite that bad lol, from the messages I figured it was some little kid or an illegal mexican lol.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: t-max97

I figured it would work, I have terrible hand writing but not quite that bad lol, from the messages I figured it was some little kid or an illegal mexican lol.
if paypal decides to pay me then it will work out.
If they want it returned, I dont have the time as I need cash ASAP
Which means I will have to sell it for about 45% of what it cost new.
Plus, Im not gonna pay $22 to ship it to paypal and hope they can figure out that there is nothing wrong with it.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: nitrosportsandrunner


Quote:
ORIGINAL: t-max97

I figured it would work, I have terrible hand writing but not quite that bad lol, from the messages I figured it was some little kid or an illegal mexican lol.
if paypal decides to pay me then it will work out.
If they want it returned, I dont have the time as I need cash ASAP
Which means I will have to sell it for about 45% of what it cost new.
Plus, Im not gonna pay $22 to ship it to paypal and hope they can figure out that there is nothing wrong with it.
Ha I know like how is Paypal supposed to know if everything works? I mean come on.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:53 AM
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Default RE: now the appeals begin

sounds like u just need to chalk it up as a loss bro.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: outlawbrett

sounds like u just need to chalk it up as a loss bro.
Im sure that is the more likely outcome. doesnt hurt to try tho
.
Paypal has no reason to grant me a payment.
Its my word against the buyers. He said its broken and returned it. I say I got it and there is nothing wrong with it.
Paypal gave the buyer back his money, but out of my account. So no loss to paypal.
If they grant me a payment, its out of their pocket.

the more likely outcome is that I will sell the $210 nitro to my buddy for $90.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:52 AM
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Default RE: now the appeals begin

Phew man I'm so glad it arrived together and in running order.

I had no idea ther is a chance of it going to PayPal for inspection, wonder if they will pay someone to look at?

So if the buyer has been refunded and u get refunded who ownes it? I wonder if PayPal will requests to inspect the item so they can keep it so they can recover there losses from both refunds by selling it?

Man if that's true they would have a bin full of all kinds of stuff...

Just a thought, is it worth keeping it, if u can? It might save u some headaches down the track if u use it as a parts truck.
I know redcat do the warranty, but some people will ignore that and go straight to a PayPal claim or leave bad feedback.
So say in the future if u have a similar problem, ask for photos of the faulty part, and if it checks out send them the replacement parts from the parts truck. Then could u lodge a warranty claim yourself on that faulty part.
I dare say, one day u will get one with a manifacturing fault... Busted pull start, missing screw, who knows

Or part the truck out, buyers will be more incline to buy from you if u offer spare parts


I don't know, just a couple of ideas
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: phmaximus

Phew man I'm so glad it arrived together and in running order.

I had no idea ther is a chance of it going to PayPal for inspection, wonder if they will pay someone to look at?

So if the buyer has been refunded and u get refunded who ownes it? I wonder if PayPal will requests to inspect the item so they can keep it so they can recover there losses from both refunds by selling it?

Man if that's true they would have a bin full of all kinds of stuff...

Just a thought, is it worth keeping it, if u can? It might save u some headaches down the track if u use it as a parts truck.
I know redcat do the warranty, but some people will ignore that and go straight to a PayPal claim or leave bad feedback.
So say in the future if u have a similar problem, ask for photos of the faulty part, and if it checks out send them the replacement parts from the parts truck. Then could u lodge a warranty claim yourself on that faulty part.
I dare say, one day u will get one with a manifacturing fault... Busted pull start, missing screw, who knows

Or part the truck out, buyers will be more incline to buy from you if u offer spare parts


I don't know, just a couple of ideas
yeh, not sure how it works if paypal wants it sent to them to be inspected.
If they straight up pay me back the money then I get the model as well. I was told that is a possiblilty.

as far as selling it again, if I sell it as "used" on ebay then it would be much harder for someone to file a claim with paypal/ebay and win. They are way more likely to side with a buyer if the item is listed as new.

I have had a customer or 2 recieve a redcat item with an issue....dented body here...mis shapped alloy hub there....defective radio ect. Not often, but when it has happened the customers have contacted me, I explained the warrenty claim and it was taken care of. In some cases I contact Redcat myself and explain the issue....especially on parts orders that are defective. They almost always ship out replacement the same day.
My ads all say "no returns" and "Item warrentied by Redcat Racing"
Most people can read and thus understand they are buying and item that, should it have an issue, will be fixed/replaced by Redcat.

The buyer in this case didnt go the warrenty route...because there was nothing needing replacing. He just changed his mind and used the very EASY return system paypal has so that he could return it.

Considering last year I sold over $40,000 worth of Redcat stuff, getting only 1 person misuse the system is probly really lucky.
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:59 AM
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Default RE: now the appeals begin

If it doesn't look broken or defective to the untrained eye, and you can prove it was nib when he received it, by the buyers on testimony, then I bet you get the money back from Paypal.  Especially considering the volume you pulled last year and your track record.  

Wishful thinking. 

If not, write it off on your taxes.  [:-]
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Salinas Hawk

If it doesn't look broken or defective to the untrained eye, and you can prove it was nib when he received it, by the buyers on testimony, then I bet you get the money back from Paypal. Especially considering the volume you pulled last year and your track record.

Wishful thinking.

If not, write it off on your taxes. [:-]
Paypal sent me and email....Not a happy camper today.

So,
1st I have to print this affidavit and fill it out/get it signed and send it to paypal. All this affidavit does is prove I am who I am.

Then I have to:
1. Contact your local police department and obtain a police/incident
report that details how one of the above scenarios applies to you. This
report should be on the law enforcement agency’s letterhead or stamped
police documentation and clearly explain the details of your issue. This
documentation must include the department/officer’s contact information,
the reporting officer's name, badge number and signature.

So I have to walk in to the police station with the RC, and ask the nice police man (who has better stuff to do) to sign a paper stating that the model I have isnt broken.

WHY DIDNT THE BUYER HAVE TO DO THAT!!!

All he did is tell paypal it was broken and that was good enough. This is BS.
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:51 AM
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Fire it up and let the police man drive it. Guaranteed money!
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:29 AM
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Wow that is ridiculously stupid, if the buyer had to do that too then I guess but all he did was lie and got his money back, you shouldn't have to do all that if he didn't, It's because now it will come out of their pocket.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:31 AM
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Default RE: now the appeals begin

Ya thats BS... the buyer should have had to prove it was broken first before paypal did anything...  Exactly why i hate paypal years ago they took the same payment out of my account 3 times. when i contacted them about it they basically said it was not their problem and would not return teh money. Luckily my bank had run into this before and put the money back for me and said they would deal with paypal. Now i use a prepaid visa if i really must use paypal
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Zrock

Ya thats BS... the buyer should have had to prove it was broken first before paypal did anything... Exactly why i hate paypal years ago they took the same payment out of my account 3 times. when i contacted them about it they basically said it was not their problem and would not return teh money. Luckily my bank had run into this before and put the money back for me and said they would deal with paypal. Now i use a prepaid visa if i really must use paypal
I spoke with a paypal rep for an hour.

Paypal follows consumer laws, which do not put the burden of proof on the buyer.
I however have to prove what I say.
None of that would happen if Paypal knew what the item was, as it had fuel in it and shouldnt be returnable on that basis alone.

so paypal "has to" take a buyer at his word. But they CHOOSE not to take a seller at his word and require a police report and an affidavit for them even to continue. So even if I didnt those things, there is no promise I would be granted my $210.

I told the rep all about the item, the fact that its not resellable for what it cost. That Im not trying to get my money and keep the item, but that I just want my $210 back. I could care less about having the model to keep or to resell.

I was offered $50. I took it because I can likely get $100 (after fees/shipping) selling the model. $150 right now is better than nothing. I dont have a bunch of money on hand, and cant wait for the time to fill out paper work and then wait for paypal to decide what to do.

Anywone want a perfectly good Redcat shockwave?
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:40 AM
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Default RE: now the appeals begin

a buyer can open there item and decide they do not want it. but as they added fuel also a nitro engine needs running in i think paypal should side with you on this one. as you cannot just reseal it then sell it as new.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: turok007

a buyer can open there item and decide they do not want it. but as they added fuel also a nitro engine needs running in i think paypal should side with you on this one. as you cannot just reseal it then sell it as new.
you would think,
but paypal makes these judgements with no knowledge of the product.

There is NO protection for sellers.
If you want to make money selling on ebay, you had better have money on the side in case this sort of thing happens.
It takes money to make money.
If I were making even 1 grand a month in profits, it would be worth the risk. But making only 2-3 hundred a month its not worth it.

the end of the matter is that paypal/ebay will side with the buyer as it makes them look good. When people spend money, they make money.

on a $210 item, between ebay and paypal (and yes, they are one in the same) $20 is taken out. I dont think Im getting service thats worth the cost.
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: now the appeals begin

Now I know why people say in their ads no paypal, cant blame them a bit. Who's Pal are they anyway?
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:35 PM
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when i want something> i call a dealer and order it from them with my credit card>> no trouble>> yet>>
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:55 PM
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Default RE: now the appeals begin

this will be interesting. feel bad for you. i reckon if they want you to send it into them then ask for some one who knows what they are talking about look at it or just use it as a parts truck as someone else said
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:35 AM
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Default RE: now the appeals begin

Quote:
ORIGINAL: nitrosportsandrunner


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Salinas Hawk

If it doesn't look broken or defective to the untrained eye, and you can prove it was nib when he received it, by the buyers on testimony, then I bet you get the money back from Paypal. Especially considering the volume you pulled last year and your track record.

Wishful thinking.

If not, write it off on your taxes. [:-]
Paypal sent me and email....Not a happy camper today.

So,
1st I have to print this affidavit and fill it out/get it signed and send it to paypal. All this affidavit does is prove I am who I am.

Then I have to:
1. Contact your local police department and obtain a police/incident
report that details how one of the above scenarios applies to you. This
report should be on the law enforcement agency’s letterhead or stamped
police documentation and clearly explain the details of your issue. This
documentation must include the department/officer’s contact information,
the reporting officer's name, badge number and signature.

So I have to walk in to the police station with the RC, and ask the nice police man (who has better stuff to do) to sign a paper stating that the model I have isnt broken.

WHY DIDNT THE BUYER HAVE TO DO THAT!!!

All he did is tell paypal it was broken and that was good enough. This is BS.
#1 - As you can easily see, paypig invented a 'rule' of their own that makes it impossible for you to follow, or get your money back. Thay may as well have also included another 'rule' where you need to hold your breath underwater for two days before calling them back!

#2 - No crime or fraud was committed, and the police do not get involved with consumer returns. What The F... were those idiots at paypig thinking (smoking) when they invented this rule? That just further reflects their stupidity!
Since most of the people at paypig are women who merely type, I doubt they could render any kind of decision as to your item not being defective. Yet, there again would delay your claim for another 6 months while they jerk you around with phone calls, and then tell you they don't have any kind of dept. to investigate the issue.

I firmly believe that paypal takes great joy in jerking people around with BS. It's what they live for, besides making money.

Thanks for the information on the stupidity of paypig. Hope you are able to sell the r/c car at a break-even cost, or with little loss.

The most valuable thing you will lose now, would be your time and sanity if you continue to communicate with paypal. What a bunch of IDIOTS!!!!
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:57 AM
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Default RE: now the appeals begin

You should also inform paypig that you have a few of your own rules and policies, which are;
*A $50 "per call" fee for having to listen to their rhetoric and BS.
*A policy that forbids you from dealing with stupidity from others, of which paypig is included as one of the 'others'.
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:01 AM
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I have another idea ...

Record your phone call with paypig about filing your claim on this. Then contact a news program, and / or a TV show like Today, 20/20, Dateline, or 60 Minutes. That would sure make headlines, and embarrass paypig.
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:35 AM
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Default RE: now the appeals begin


Quote:
ORIGINAL: nitrosportsandrunner


Then I have to:
1. Contact your local police department and obtain a police/incident
report that details how one of the above scenarios applies to you. This
report should be on the law enforcement agency’s letterhead or stamped
police documentation and clearly explain the details of your issue. This
documentation must include the department/officer’s contact information,
the reporting officer's name, badge number and signature.

So I have to walk in to the police station with the RC, and ask the nice police man (who has better stuff to do) to sign a paper stating that the model I have isnt broken.
Yes, some of these rules are just ridiculous. I can tell you firsthand since I am former Law Enforcement that this requirement of Paypal is absurd. If I ever had someone contact me about this situation and request an inspection and also a official report to follow, I would have been required to advise them that this is a civil matter and refer them to small claims court. Police investigate crimes, so far this buyer has at worst lied. Is it a crime? Maybe depending on how you explain it you could call it fraud....very thin though. Now I'm not defending Paypal or the buyer in any way. This is terrible policy and customer service. It's almost worth the attorney fees to threaten them about requiring you to obtain something that you cannot obtain.
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:40 AM
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why do people use paypal when there are so many complain about it?
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: oneaew@msn.com

why do people use paypal when there are so many complain about it?
We have used Paypal a lot for a long time with no problems yet.
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