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  1. #26
    erbroens's Avatar
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market


    ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM


    seen that project before. Few things to note one its not running brushless from what I can see(which almost everyone demands), and 2 he isn't taking jumps. If they did either of these that thing would crack bad.
    Not saying it isn't impressive, but honestly for how much it probably cost to make in materials a cheap tamiya that could take way more abuse could have been bought. I know cost savings wasn't the point, but I'm saying more for the common joe not someone that just wants to do it to prove a point, or for the fun of it
    Absolutely, these first generation 3D printers are interesting but limited as the accessible, cheap models print basically polimers.. don´t know how much we will need to wait, but as soon this printers start using graphene a major ramification will happen, and not only for the rc market.

    http://www.3ders.org/articles/201305...velopment.html





  2. #27

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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market

    It doesnt matter, CNC machines exist today, that could cut a block of foam into anything. You need a CAD file, and regardless of 3d printing or CNC that is really what holds people up. Not to mention its a lot of work, alot more work than an ARF for sure

  3. #28
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market


    ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM

    as you can make a cannon that can fire from duct tape, I'm sure you can do the same with a gun. That would be even cheaper and easier to do then a 3d printer
    duct tape one would probably last more than 1-2 shots too.
    Or go get a metal lath and make one...


    Now to get to topic (or a topic) how high do you think traxxas will raise prices when people start printing parts as it will cut into their replacement parts income
    they wont because of printing, they'll market their own printer and make it use their proprietary plastic which will be in fact WEAKER than that already used!

    some of you seem to think they have to use plastic, there are some that can do titanium
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zApmGFDA6ow[/youtube]
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  4. #29

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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market

    I think this will spur some materials design and parts design to strengthen the overall object.

    Heck, I heard somewhere they built a 3D Electric Plane out of Foam Board! Now, that's impressive!
    Rich
    Krzy4RC

  5. #30
    SyCo_VeNoM's Avatar
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market


    ORIGINAL: essyou35

    It doesnt matter, CNC machines exist today, that could cut a block of foam into anything. You need a CAD file, and regardless of 3d printing or CNC that is really what holds people up. Not to mention its a lot of work, alot more work than an ARF for sure
    kinda why I said it won't make any difference
    as for CNC to my knowledge most CNC machines cost a quite a bit over what a cheap 3d printer does (in initial cost, and maintenance). I know there are a pile of home brew CNC mills, but honestly I've never tried one, and from what I read some claim they are cheap till you hit some rare proprietary piece(usually labled common in the instructions) that drive up the cost

    cumquat didn't mention the metal 3d printers cause we all know metal isn't the best thing for the majority of RC applications.
    plus the cost for one would be ludicrous and way out of the common hobbyists budget
    With great speed comes greater repair bills.
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  6. #31
    cumquat's Avatar
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market


    ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM


    ORIGINAL: essyou35

    It doesnt matter, CNC machines exist today, that could cut a block of foam into anything. You need a CAD file, and regardless of 3d printing or CNC that is really what holds people up. Not to mention its a lot of work, alot more work than an ARF for sure
    kinda why I said it won't make any difference
    as for CNC to my knowledge most CNC machines cost a quite a bit over what a cheap 3d printer does (in initial cost, and maintenance). I know there are a pile of home brew CNC mills, but honestly I've never tried one, and from what I read some claim they are cheap till you hit some rare proprietary piece(usually labled common in the instructions) that drive up the cost

    cumquat didn't mention the metal 3d printers cause we all know metal isn't the best thing for the majority of RC applications.
    plus the cost for one would be ludicrous and way out of the common hobbyists budget
    the problem with metal parts on current rc's is that they were designed to be plastic. if the design is intended for metal from the beginning, you can incorporate proper elements for increased durability. i thoroughly believe that an all steel rc can be made with ample durability and maintain decent performance. it just has to be designed from the ground up with an all steel construction in mind. as for the cost, i'm sure they said the same things about computers in the 60's. given sufficient time, they will become affordable. not to mention some people are starting to say that 3D printers will be as common as microwaves in 15 years.
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  7. #32

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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market

    We have CAD controlled LASER cutters that allow you to cut your own kits. How many do that? It costs too much unless your are going to make thousands. And the software is never going to be simple enough to allow the average person to use it.
    We will have manufacturers to do it for us but maybe a bit cheaper.
    dirty old men need love too.

  8. #33
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market


    ORIGINAL: cumquat


    ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM


    ORIGINAL: essyou35

    It doesnt matter, CNC machines exist today, that could cut a block of foam into anything. You need a CAD file, and regardless of 3d printing or CNC that is really what holds people up. Not to mention its a lot of work, alot more work than an ARF for sure
    kinda why I said it won't make any difference
    as for CNC to my knowledge most CNC machines cost a quite a bit over what a cheap 3d printer does (in initial cost, and maintenance). I know there are a pile of home brew CNC mills, but honestly I've never tried one, and from what I read some claim they are cheap till you hit some rare proprietary piece(usually labled common in the instructions) that drive up the cost

    cumquat didn't mention the metal 3d printers cause we all know metal isn't the best thing for the majority of RC applications.
    plus the cost for one would be ludicrous and way out of the common hobbyists budget
    the problem with metal parts on current rc's is that they were designed to be plastic. if the design is intended for metal from the beginning, you can incorporate proper elements for increased durability. i thoroughly believe that an all steel rc can be made with ample durability and maintain decent performance. it just has to be designed from the ground up with an all steel construction in mind. as for the cost, i'm sure they said the same things about computers in the 60's. given sufficient time, they will become affordable. not to mention some people are starting to say that 3D printers will be as common as microwaves in 15 years.
    people said that about flying cars since the early to mid 1900's, and I'm still waiting for my damn flying car

    Seriously though I doubt that will be the case as dirtybird mentioned the software will never be easy enough for the average person to use. I'm sure CAD has gotten a tad easier since I last used it (I think it was autocad 3 or 4 that I used over 16 years ago), but still unless you know what you are doing, and have knowledge of drafting which the average person who struggles using MS paint won't have then they don't have any chance in hell of printing something unless its some downloaded file.
    With great speed comes greater repair bills.
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  9. #34
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market


    ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM


    ORIGINAL: cumquat


    ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM


    ORIGINAL: essyou35

    It doesnt matter, CNC machines exist today, that could cut a block of foam into anything. You need a CAD file, and regardless of 3d printing or CNC that is really what holds people up. Not to mention its a lot of work, alot more work than an ARF for sure
    kinda why I said it won't make any difference
    as for CNC to my knowledge most CNC machines cost a quite a bit over what a cheap 3d printer does (in initial cost, and maintenance). I know there are a pile of home brew CNC mills, but honestly I've never tried one, and from what I read some claim they are cheap till you hit some rare proprietary piece(usually labled common in the instructions) that drive up the cost

    cumquat didn't mention the metal 3d printers cause we all know metal isn't the best thing for the majority of RC applications.
    plus the cost for one would be ludicrous and way out of the common hobbyists budget
    the problem with metal parts on current rc's is that they were designed to be plastic. if the design is intended for metal from the beginning, you can incorporate proper elements for increased durability. i thoroughly believe that an all steel rc can be made with ample durability and maintain decent performance. it just has to be designed from the ground up with an all steel construction in mind. as for the cost, i'm sure they said the same things about computers in the 60's. given sufficient time, they will become affordable. not to mention some people are starting to say that 3D printers will be as common as microwaves in 15 years.
    people said that about flying cars since the early to mid 1900's, and I'm still waiting for my damn flying car

    Seriously though I doubt that will be the case as dirtybird mentioned the software will never be easy enough for the average person to use. I'm sure CAD has gotten a tad easier since I last used it (I think it was autocad 3 or 4 that I used over 16 years ago), but still unless you know what you are doing, and have knowledge of drafting which the average person who struggles using MS paint won't have then they don't have any chance in hell of printing something unless its some downloaded file.
    If 3d printers where common there would be companies making downloadable design you could buy, almost like the app store or something, just go buy a file for a couple dollars lol.
    If you dont know what your doing, its best to do it quickly.

  10. #35
    cumquat's Avatar
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market


    ORIGINAL: t-max97


    ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM


    ORIGINAL: cumquat


    ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM


    ORIGINAL: essyou35

    It doesnt matter, CNC machines exist today, that could cut a block of foam into anything. You need a CAD file, and regardless of 3d printing or CNC that is really what holds people up. Not to mention its a lot of work, alot more work than an ARF for sure
    kinda why I said it won't make any difference
    as for CNC to my knowledge most CNC machines cost a quite a bit over what a cheap 3d printer does (in initial cost, and maintenance). I know there are a pile of home brew CNC mills, but honestly I've never tried one, and from what I read some claim they are cheap till you hit some rare proprietary piece(usually labled common in the instructions) that drive up the cost

    cumquat didn't mention the metal 3d printers cause we all know metal isn't the best thing for the majority of RC applications.
    plus the cost for one would be ludicrous and way out of the common hobbyists budget
    the problem with metal parts on current rc's is that they were designed to be plastic. if the design is intended for metal from the beginning, you can incorporate proper elements for increased durability. i thoroughly believe that an all steel rc can be made with ample durability and maintain decent performance. it just has to be designed from the ground up with an all steel construction in mind. as for the cost, i'm sure they said the same things about computers in the 60's. given sufficient time, they will become affordable. not to mention some people are starting to say that 3D printers will be as common as microwaves in 15 years.
    people said that about flying cars since the early to mid 1900's, and I'm still waiting for my damn flying car

    Seriously though I doubt that will be the case as dirtybird mentioned the software will never be easy enough for the average person to use. I'm sure CAD has gotten a tad easier since I last used it (I think it was autocad 3 or 4 that I used over 16 years ago), but still unless you know what you are doing, and have knowledge of drafting which the average person who struggles using MS paint won't have then they don't have any chance in hell of printing something unless its some downloaded file.
    If 3d printers where common there would be companies making downloadable design you could buy, almost like the app store or something, just go buy a file for a couple dollars lol.
    that's pretty much what i see coming. instead of spending millions on tooling, just sell a single-use flash drive with the file on it and a container of material for making the product.

    i will say, CAD has gotten a little easier. while it's not capable of being use to run any CNC machinery, there are programs like google sketchup that make designing things easy. then you consider that there's talks of adding basic programming to the list of requirements to get a diploma, the idea isnt as absurd anymore.
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  11. #36
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market

    you guys are failing to think about it
    lets use a similar thing that similar things were said. Lets look at CD's
    When CD writers were introduced similar things were said. Lets face it a CD-R drives require a hell of a lot less know how to operate, and keep working then a 3d printer which requires a quite a bit of maintenance, and I know people that STILL can't figure out how to burn a damn disk even after being baby stepped through it multiple times. The whole thing that you would go to a music store with a flash drive, and just copy what you want over (ok the last parts finally come true, but it took ages, and its still encumbered) and make your own CD's how you want. Last I looked they still sell physical music CD's (that are 99.9X10^-10000000000 % crap) in the stores, and its not put any real dent in their sales.

    Got to think about it this might be simple to people who like DIY stuff (will say a lot of the RC community falls in this), but to the average person I doubt this would appeal to many outside, and after one use it would probably never be used again as they would never figure out how to restart it.

    For the record I've worked in IT a while ago, seen how terrible most people are with any sort of technology, and how badly they would screw it up.
    With great speed comes greater repair bills.
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  12. #37
    t-max97's Avatar
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market


    ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM

    you guys are failing to think about it
    lets use a similar thing that similar things were said. Lets look at CD's
    When CD writers were introduced similar things were said. Lets face it a CD-R drives require a hell of a lot less know how to operate, and keep working then a 3d printer which requires a quite a bit of maintenance, and I know people that STILL can't figure out how to burn a damn disk even after being baby stepped through it multiple times. The whole thing that you would go to a music store with a flash drive, and just copy what you want over (ok the last parts finally come true, but it took ages, and its still encumbered) and make your own CD's how you want. Last I looked they still sell physical music CD's (that are 99.9X10^-10000000000 % crap) in the stores, and its not put any real dent in their sales.

    Got to think about it this might be simple to people who like DIY stuff (will say a lot of the RC community falls in this), but to the average person I doubt this would appeal to many outside, and after one use it would probably never be used again as they would never figure out how to restart it.

    For the record I've worked in IT a while ago, seen how terrible most people are with any sort of technology, and how badly they would screw it up.
    Im not saying its going to take over the rc market or any other market but I do think it will become more common and as it does it will become easier to use and pre made files will be widely available. Who knows though lol we will find out in time.
    If you dont know what your doing, its best to do it quickly.

  13. #38

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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market

    Hi everybody!

    I hope it´s ok for me to post here, if not remove this post.

    I´m the guy behind the "3D Printable Truggy" mentioned earlier in this thread. I just wanted to add a few thoughts to this thread.

    First off, as someone said, i started of with a non brushless setup. I´m putting together one more car and it has a brushless setup. Video to come and yes it will probably break alot just as everything else did in the beginning.

    Jumps... I´m a BMX:er so i have no other intention than to go big! The current setup is really weak and i could barely even clear the kicker... i´ve posted some videos of tiny jumps and crashes but there so tiny i won´t even post the links here. And yet again.... it will brake... alot!

    I need to brake it again and again so i can make it better...  ;-)

    This started as a project to show of what "home 3D Printers" can do, not to create an awesome racing car. But even from the beginning people told me you can´t do this, you can´t do that, it will never work. And to be honest when it actually worked and i could actually drive the thing i was stoked and it was far beyond what i had hoped for.

    Alot has happend since the start and i have to say i´m very pleased. Of course it would be alot easier (and cheaper) to just buy a car but think beyond that, think ten years away from now... what will the successors of this project be like? Everything evolves so fast these days and i can´t wait to see what to future has in store!

    Thanks!

    /Daniel Norée

  14. #39

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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market

    CAD software in regards to 3d printers will become much easier to use. It is in the nature of software. It is complicated now because it is used by engineers who are building very custom designs and not simply reproducing objects. Once the general public gains interest (which they will), then some incredibly simple cad software will be produced for the purpose of re-producing objects. OCR used to be a little complex. Now you can take a picture of a check with your smart phone and deposit it in the bank. An even better example would be SharePoint. I can create a general SharePoint database in in 15 minutes. It is even quicker and easier to make general changes. Of course it takes longer when I make custom workflows or even code workflows. Nonetheless, it used to require specialized technical knowledge to make many of the database changes that a monkey could do in share point. Once 3d printers become more common, Software will be developed allowing re-production of objects by taking a few pictures. It will be incredibly consumer friendly because its possible and there will be a market for it.

    ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM

    you guys are failing to think about it
    lets use a similar thing that similar things were said. Lets look at CD's
    When CD writers were introduced similar things were said. Lets face it a CD-R drives require a hell of a lot less know how to operate, and keep working then a 3d printer which requires a quite a bit of maintenance, and I know people that STILL can't figure out how to burn a damn disk even after being baby stepped through it multiple times. The whole thing that you would go to a music store with a flash drive, and just copy what you want over (ok the last parts finally come true, but it took ages, and its still encumbered) and make your own CD's how you want. Last I looked they still sell physical music CD's (that are 99.9X10^-10000000000 % crap) in the stores, and its not put any real dent in their sales.

    Got to think about it this might be simple to people who like DIY stuff (will say a lot of the RC community falls in this), but to the average person I doubt this would appeal to many outside, and after one use it would probably never be used again as they would never figure out how to restart it.

    For the record I've worked in IT a while ago, seen how terrible most people are with any sort of technology, and how badly they would screw it up.

  15. #40

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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market


    ORIGINAL: barspin

    Hi everybody!

    I hope it´s ok for me to post here, if not remove this post.

    I´m the guy behind the ''3D Printable Truggy'' mentioned earlier in this thread. I just wanted to add a few thoughts to this thread.

    First off, as someone said, i started of with a non brushless setup. I´m putting together one more car and it has a brushless setup. Video to come and yes it will probably break alot just as everything else did in the beginning.

    Jumps... I´m a BMX:er so i have no other intention than to go big! The current setup is really weak and i could barely even clear the kicker... i´ve posted some videos of tiny jumps and crashes but there so tiny i won´t even post the links here. And yet again.... it will brake... alot!

    I need to brake it again and again so i can make it better... *;-)

    This started as a project to show of what ''home 3D Printers'' can do, not to create an awesome racing car. But even from the beginning people told me you can´t do this, you can´t do that, it will never work. And to be honest when it actually worked and i could actually drive the thing i was stoked and it was far beyond what i had hoped for.

    Alot has happend since the start and i have to say i´m very pleased. Of course it would be alot easier (and cheaper) to just buy a car but think beyond that, think ten years away from now... what will the successors of this project be like? Everything evolves so fast these days and i can´t wait to see what to future has in store!

    Thanks!

    /Daniel Norée
    I couldn't agree more. We will definately see alot of improvement and changes in the coming months and years. I look forward to your next video. As I posted earlier, my son designed a dual movable camera mount for anothe Drone Project we are working on and I couldn't believe first off all how good it came out and second how fast it was to produce. From a few CAD drawings which he knocked out in about 30 minutes to about 2 hours on the 3D printer.. after a little tweaking of the servo to get the linkage aligned, a quick program of the arduino board, it was installed in the drone and flown the next day. honestly if we had to do this the old way.. Design the part and send to the manufacturer couple of weeks or months if you are lucky.. and the cost for a one off part.. who knows.. this was done in 2 days.. could have been the same day but I had to work late.. I wish I could show the parts that were made, but I'm not allowed to for some reason..LOL
    Its great having access to a 3D printer and I know most don't.. I just can't wait for better materials to work with.. they are just around the corner.. If I could 3D print Carbon Fiber..... [8D]
    If it has wheels... I\'\'ll make it fly

  16. #41
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market

    ORIGINAL: cenracer1


    ORIGINAL: barspin

    Hi everybody!

    I hope it´s ok for me to post here, if not remove this post.

    I´m the guy behind the ''3D Printable Truggy'' mentioned earlier in this thread. I just wanted to add a few thoughts to this thread.

    First off, as someone said, i started of with a non brushless setup. I´m putting together one more car and it has a brushless setup. Video to come and yes it will probably break alot just as everything else did in the beginning.

    Jumps... I´m a BMX:er so i have no other intention than to go big! The current setup is really weak and i could barely even clear the kicker... i´ve posted some videos of tiny jumps and crashes but there so tiny i won´t even post the links here. And yet again.... it will brake... alot!

    I need to brake it again and again so i can make it better... *;-)

    This started as a project to show of what ''home 3D Printers'' can do, not to create an awesome racing car. But even from the beginning people told me you can´t do this, you can´t do that, it will never work. And to be honest when it actually worked and i could actually drive the thing i was stoked and it was far beyond what i had hoped for.

    Alot has happend since the start and i have to say i´m very pleased. Of course it would be alot easier (and cheaper) to just buy a car but think beyond that, think ten years away from now... what will the successors of this project be like? Everything evolves so fast these days and i can´t wait to see what to future has in store!

    Thanks!

    /Daniel Norée
    I couldn't agree more. We will definately see alot of improvement and changes in the coming months and years. I look forward to your next video. As I posted earlier, my son designed a dual movable camera mount for anothe Drone Project we are working on and I couldn't believe first off all how good it came out and second how fast it was to produce. From a few CAD drawings which he knocked out in about 30 minutes to about 2 hours on the 3D printer.. after a little tweaking of the servo to get the linkage aligned, a quick program of the arduino board, it was installed in the drone and flown the next day. honestly if we had to do this the old way.. Design the part and send to the manufacturer couple of weeks or months if you are lucky.. and the cost for a one off part.. who knows.. this was done in 2 days.. could have been the same day but I had to work late.. I wish I could show the parts that were made, but I'm not allowed to for some reason..LOL
    Its great having access to a 3D printer and I know most don't.. I just can't wait for better materials to work with.. they are just around the corner.. If I could 3D print Carbon Fiber..... [8D]
    well in theory staples way in europe it technically is possible seeing they just are layering paper up and using an epoxy between the layers. Would have to modify the printer they use but that would probably cost a ton to do.

    But still I don't see 3d printers becoming any where as common as others hope. It would be cool if they did as it would drive costs rock bottom, but like I've said a few times I doubt that will happen period as the common person would have no use for them.

    Fine if a company sells an items plans to print ok then what? Outside making a knick knack statue, or maybe even a phone case what else could be made that would be easily assembled by common people?
    Lets face it most people would want something it can't do like a working cell phone. Also look at how many people can't even assemble their kids toys let alone ad electronics, or buy screws that would be needed to complete assembly.

    Now common enough to be sold in say hardware stores I will say probably, but outside DIYers, artists, and other niche groups I don't see it going mainstream to where everyone and their mother will have one to print everything even if the material strength gets on par with molded plastics.

    But that is how I see things based on past experiences with dealing mainly the non technical or people with 0 skills in using the most basic of tools (I mean people that don't even know what a phillips screw driver is...), and I doubt they will suddenly become able to manipulate objects in a 3d program, and become DIYers in 15 years as they don't care in the slightest to learn.


    To the dude that made the 3d printed car you have my props on that as I probably would have tried something similar if I could afford to build the printer. I also will admit it was impressive it held together during the video I saw as I know a lot of places when they 3d print things (like HPI at the one toy show) they put a sign that says fragile do not touch as it looked like it would fall apart if someone tapped it.
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  17. #42
    Eman77's Avatar
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market

    Will this new fangled technology allow me to 3D print a full RC dirt racecourse for my backyard that I can then fold up into a suitcase when I'm done with it?

    If not, I'm not interested.

    DT02-MS | Stadium Thunder | TT Frog | TRF 801XT | CR-01 | F-150 | CRT.5 | T-Egg

  18. #43

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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market

    There are thousands of general consumer uses for this type of product beyond DIYers and serious hobbyists. Assid from consumer purposes, The business purposes beyond modeling and presentations are mind blowing. The business purposes will drive the creation and availability of stronger materials.

  19. #44
    Maj_Overdrive's Avatar
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    RE: ramifications of 3d printing on RC market

    3d printers are very cool and have lots of uses, many untapped. Putting a 3d printer into the average person's home will require a network to get useful products and projects you can just download and print. Otherwise it's just going to be something for artists, hobbyists, the business world, schools, etc. Even with an "App Store" I think you'll be able to find plenty of dusty 3d printers on Craigslist and eBay listed by people who got bored with them or found it too complicated or time consuming to learn its full capability. Where I see the technology shining is in the small business world.

    The small business world is also where 3d printing is going to make an impact in RC. Think about the TMaxx and Emaxx and how many small machine shops started producing parts for them, UE, Dace, Duh, Gorillamax etc. They produced stuff for their hobby and sold it to the public too. Just like the heyday of the Tmaxx aftermarket, there will be people who'll make parts on their printer for themselves and end up selling them to the public too, both in software and already printed form. Non structural stuff will come first, but when reasonably priced printers that can do structural become avalible I see a nice niche market for people to sell some unique products.

    But I think we're a long way from selling in software form, lots of piracy and intellectual property issues there. Intellectual property issues is another reason why I don't think 3d printed replacement parts are going to be an issue for the manufacturers. 3d scan and print some parts for yourself and a couple local friends you'll be fine. Try selling said parts online or the files to print them at home and I'm pretty sure you'll be hearing from their lawyers.
    Punch Control? I don't need no stinking Punch Control!


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