phmaximus

I've been seeing this topic come up a bit in the last few weeks so I thought I should start a thread to help people down the track...

Before we even starting comparing them I'm trying to get a list up of contenders

ESC
Castle sidewinder 3
Castle sidewinder SCT
Hobby Wing Ezrun 35a / yeah racing 35a
Hobby Wing ezrun 60a
Hobby Wing waterproof ezrun 60a
Hobby Wing xerun 45a
Traxxas velineon VXL

motors...
380 cored 540 motors
540 motors

can anyone think of some others worth adding to the list?

Foxy

In terms of value its a no-brainer. The Sidewinder SCT system with the Castle 1410 is crazy value. When you consider that the motor alone is only 5 bucks less than the combo, it's basically a free ESC, and it is one of the best 1/10th motors available too. The others are much of a muchness if you ask me.

Zonked

My Feedback: (6)

Cant argue with the Castle 1406 combo imo.

Just picked up a Dynamite Fuze combo for 89.99 locally, 2pole motor, sensored or sensorless ESC up to 3s with the correct motor/gearing. Like the smaller ESC footprint compared to the Castle and lighter overall weight. Will update as I get the chance to run it.


This thread is needed phmaximus, great job and hopefully you will get a lot of feedback from different users

SyCo_VeNoM

Hobby Wing ezrun 60a IMO

With the castle combo you will still need a decent ESC


But in all honesty it depends on the vehicle
Example my CRT.5, and 1/8th buggy converted CRT.5(and soon my nexx10) run great with the 60A HW setup, my DF-02 even though its 4wd, and run it mainly in grass it works great with the 35A setup.

A slash/pede 4X4 though doesn't run as great with the same setup as the crt.5 though, and I wouldn't use one again as it got quite hot pretty fast (I use a 100A motor with a 120A ESC in my pede 4x4)

So its basically its not a 1 size fits all thing quite like one size fits all T-shirts, and hats as I find those fit very few people that are over a medium

Zonked

My Feedback: (6)

Comes with a 1 year warranty and they actually do repairs past the warranty peroid . Excellent CS over the phone or by email unlike some of the other budget systems.

Personally cannot find the value in a 86.00 dollar combo that comes with 380 motor, limited support and a 180 day warranty VS the 110.00 or 119.00 dollar combos from Castle.

The Dynamite setup I just picked up cost 90+ tax and includes: sensored/sensorless ESC, true 540 2pole motor, program card and 1yr warranty backed by Horizon Hobby.

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

Really? "Excellent" customer support from Castle? Not in MY experience. I've got TWO of those $86 combos and they've never failed me. I see your point in that, if I DID have any issue, trying to deal directly with HW would be difficult, if not impossible. But, I wouldn't HAVE to because HobbyPartz stands behind the products they sell, and THEY are HERE in California. And, considering that it seems most manufacturers these days don't have anything I would call Customer Service, the point is moot, to me.

I've seen those Dynamite systems advertised. Pretty good, eh?

Zonked

My Feedback: (6)

Yes EXCELLENT customer service.

Have not run the Dynamite system yet, picked it for my uh Rustler ? But it passes the eyeball test, may put it in something to run over the weekend and followup.

Please dont think I am bashing on the HW stuff because Im not. There was a time you could get those for half the price of a comparable Castle/Novak setup. The value was greatly increased at that time but being 86.00 with a 380 motor they have lost there value imo. Have you ever tried calling HP ? That is a experience I wish on nobody. Click Clack, Ding Dong and Charlie Chan in charge of CS lol

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

Didn't take it as HW-bashing, mate. 8^) No worries. Yeah, their prices have gone up a little, but they're still well worth it, IMO. May not be HALF the price of Castle anymore, but 2/3's of the price is still a significant savings in my book. I'll grant you the Castle motor is better, being a true 540. But in a light-weight vehicle like an Evader or Rustler, that finned-out 380 motor is plenty of go-power.

No, I haven't tried phoning HobbyPartz....not real fun, was it? That's too bad. Hard to get thru the accent barrier? Or did they act like they didn't know what they were doing? I'm curious as to your experience.

Zonked

My Feedback: (6)

Well I do wish castle would offer some lower KV motors, which is why I picked up the Dynamite combo along with the smaller ESC footprint but dummy me still went with a 4800kv lol.

Hobby Partz experience went like this. Ordered 2 Sky Lipo 2s 4400mah batteries, took 3 buisness days to process the order another 4 working days to receive them. One is still perfect to this day and the other was bad out of the box but I understand things happen no biggie.

Hooked up volt meter which read 3.8v and 2.5v which is all kind of bad lol. So i tried to calling them for four days and sent 2 emails which I never heard from!Took forever to get a live person to give me a RMA # but he was very courteous Batteries cost 25 bucks a piece plus 4.99 shipping and would have cost 6-7 bucks to ship back so it just wasnt worth the aggravation imo. Dropped off the bad pack at Radio Shack called it a day.

nitrosportsandrunner

im with syco on the castle stuff.
We all base opinions on our experiences....and Ive yet to have any castle product which lasted long. Last castle product was a axial ESC from a ridgecrest which was dead out of the box (no BEC)
Ive had a couple sidewinder ESCs. One worked OK. The other died before long.

Ezrun stuff on the other hand, probly had 10 ESC's...maybe more. I can only think of 1 35amp that fried on me. All the others worked fine for me and were still working when I sold/traded the rc they were in. Given my memory is bad, its possible that 2 of them died. But 2 out of ten is better odds then Ive had with castle stuff. But again...that's just my experience!

Ive only had 1 bad item from hobbypartz.com....at GT3 radio system. The wheel on the remote was busted. They replaced it with little hassle. But maybe im just lucky that way? Ive also had great service from Redcat racing...while I have heard from some who said they could never get anyone on the phone and couldn't get emails answered. These are smaller companies so I guess the customer service from them can be hit or miss.

I like the ezrun 60a esc. The redcat caldera uses the 35amp and 380 core motor...and it is a 1/10 4wd MT. That system can move the truck over 30mph on a 2s. That's a small system for the size and weight of the truck, but it works.
The 60a and a 540 motor is even better.
The 80a and motor in the redcat 8e models is awesome. A powerhouse.

SyCo_VeNoM

Side note I don't think the HW ESC's went up the cost of the motors went up as China decided that they were sick of making rare earth magnets at the cost of their environment so people in the west could have cheap magnets. I think the cost only went up a few bucks(maybe $15?) on the 540 can the 380 combos did jump drastically though.

phmaximus

Ok fair enough, but here is the thing... Hobby wing don't need a warrenty like castle do. They simply don't fail from normal use...

i don't know of a single case of a 35a or a 60a ezrun failing from correct use. Surly that says something

And seriously if u don't like the 380 motor... Why not pay the extra to get the 540


FYI the 540 combo is only $3.99 more.... Not exactly heapse.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EZRUN-COMBO-...item589efa3a49

phmaximus

I've got a guy in the off road section that wants a traxxas combo..... I've tried recommending a ezrun combo with no luck....

would u guys agree that the traxxas combos are the worst of the bunch

Zonked

My Feedback: (6)

Not trying to make an argument against HW just sayin there is other option's for budget combo's that you dont have wait 3 weeks to get it from indochina. Good thing they never fail (my ass) becuase HW USA wont warranty them unless they are purchased from them or their list of re-sellers of which Hobby Partz is not one. Your LHS may want to stock a few of those setups ?

Does it not mean anything to go inside a hobby store, build relationships meet new people who share in your hobby ? That is all Im saying.

And seriously I dont want the 380 combo simply because the speedo is sensorless only. The Dynamite setup comes with a nonsensored 540 motor and sensored/sensorless esc for pennies more.

I have one MMP bought in 2009 BEC failure in late 2010. Out of warranty peroid and Castle still repaired it for 55.00 and same goes for my first SCT 1410 combo, ESC failure while at the track, made a call and 2 days later new esc was at my door step. The motors can be rebuilt, break a esc case ? they also offer those for replacement.

SyCo_VeNoM

At one point I liked my LHS
Then they got under new management canned the guys who knew what they were doing, and kept people coming in.
They then stopped carrying OFNA, lowered the amount of every other brand they carried, and decided to go overboard on Traxxas crap. I wish I was joking when I say 90% of the on-road shelf space is dedicated to Traxxas the traxxas parts hang on the walls, traxxas RC's line the shelves with an occasional HPI flung in for color. They also cut the on-road section down by 60%...
Everything else was flung in a tupperware container you have to usually wait 5 minutes to get as the clerks are too busy talking on the phone laughing.

They also decided to cut down the amount of bodies they stocked by 75%(one of the main reason I went there), and throw in a Dnanno race track for some reason that takes up a pile of room. Seriously with the amount of room they squandered they could have put a friggin 1/24th scale or 1/18th scale race track in.

So as they don't stock parts for ANY of my RC's, and I do mean ANY Stopped carrying bodies for the most part, and take 45 mins to drive to is there any reason I should bother to support them?
Last time I was there was probably almost 2 years ago, and I walked out of there with $5 in paint. I went there for about $90 in things that they USED to carry(I know cause I bought the stuff there in the past), and honestly it was my 2nd time going back for the same stuff the time before they said in a few weeks they would get it in I waited 3 months... I'm also not going to drive 45 mins to be told to do the drive again in 3 days so they hopefully have the part in when I could get it delivered for less then I would spend in gas just going there.

Also now they seem to try and chase people out where before people would stand around and talk no more of that. Hell they won't even let you borrow a screw driver to get a part off to see if what you are thinking of buying would fit (they used to)

Sorry for the tirade

Zonked

My Feedback: (6)

That sounds like our Hobby town, lots of Traxxas,Hpi but they color the shelves with cheap Tamiya kits. But all in all good people that have been burnt a few times by people with sticky fingers. I was there one day and a guy comes in to look at heli parts and he tried to walk out the door with maybe 100.00 worth of parts, said he was going to get his wallet

My favorite is Discovery Hobby, small shop and the owner is just a fantastic person. Dont have but maybe 20 kits on the shelf with pretty good diversity, of course mostly traxxas because that is what sells but does have a few associated and Losi kits. They sell more paintball stuff than RC but he gets anything I want in 2 days and i can just email him to place my order......took a few years to build up the relationship but has been time well spent.

He now keeps some parts from Hot Racing after he had ordered mine in so i was pretty happy about that

Just remembered he has a Ofna Hyper Sprint on the shelf...for long while now lol.

phmaximus

I agree , yep there are other combos that u don't have to wait for where you live, but other countaies might not have that option.

to me, I'm not interested in making a relationship with my LHS. I'm more interested in saving money.
why..... Well my LHS charges $75 just for a 35a ezrun ESC
I will shop where ever its cheaper.

I'm still yet to find an example of a HobbyWing failing from normal use thats not driver error... Even googled it... The closest I found was one that was waterproof, and drowned. But it's totally the drivers fault. I don't think he realised that it is not ment to be submerged under water and the futher down u go the more the water pressure increases. It's a potty they don't have a water rating on them like watches do.

Personally I wouldn't bother if its sensorless or sensored. I'm yet to see any advantage of one vs the other in a 1/10 application.

but even then there is the Xerun 45a combos to cater for sensored combos

phmaximus

Trying to get back on topic.

In my experience I can't fault the ezrun 35a combos. I've owned 3 and currently own 2. I've run them I'm various vehicles on 2s and 3s (mo3, Tl01b, Tl01mt, TA01, DF02r, slash, rustler, colt EP Truggy)

only issue I've had is a fan fail from getting wet... Better than the ESC right lol
i know they are not waterproof... Well the 35a ones anyway but they are splash proof.

I like to think of them as a old Cleveland 351 v8, they will out live the car they are in

very wet TL01b from 2009.... its the ESC and motor are still going string today

Zonked

My Feedback: (6)

Yes I would agree

May want to add the Viper Copperhead combo's to that list.

Sidewinder SCT. Not water proof or splash proof...........mud proof maybe

SyCo_VeNoM

Well its not that the stuff is outta reach as pretty much every traxxas part, and RPM hop-up for traxxas RC's you can get yourself, and are readily accessible.. Even the RC's themselves are. Its just like say OFNA, Kyosho (unless its Dnanno), and others parts were literally thrown in a closet, and unless you know where they are(some staff don't even know) you are not gonna get the part.

Other thing is they closed part of the store that was dedicated to trains, and instead of cutting down the plane, and ground/water sections equally they only cut down the nonflying based RC section(yes boats are lumped in with on-road cars for some reason...) smushing a already cramped section down more where as the plane stuff is still really spread out all over. Basically the ground based section looks more like a junk shop.


But back on topic agree with phax only reports I heard of EZ-runs failing were either user error(using a 35A setup in a vehicle the 60 was needed) thinking they can play submariner with the RC, or my favorite one person when I had an argument with them about the lack of failure rates linked to a post where a guy said his Hobbywing ESC failed, but the pictures supplied later in the thread were of a HobbyKing ESC(those I'd be wary of read about a pile of failures)... I've also read there are some bootlegs of the HW ESC's that fail too(they have the HW sticker on them, and are incompatible with the programming card.)

Zonked

My Feedback: (6)

Agreed not everyone lives in where I do, my apologies.

Good luck saving money in this hobby and its very unfortunate that your LHS is gouging like that but then again i know nothing about your exchange rate,taxes or tariff. Personally would ask why they are charging so much for a budget esc ?

I have still yet to see a 86.00 HW combo that generates enough power to illuminate a light bulb, could explain the reason why the never fail ? But yeah they have very reliable speed controllers in 1/10th and 1/8th applications. Personally would like to see what happens when a 60amp EZ-run is paired with a Castle 1410 in a 2wd SC truck on 3S. My sidewinder has been just fine for 2 years.

Sensored or sensorless ? Well the difference is pretty significant when it comes to racing...... much smoother acceleration.

I am done here, every thread turns into a pissing match. So please get back on topic.

phmaximus

u dont need to get like that, everyone is been very civil.
all i recommend, be sure on what you are saying is correct, because we are fact finding and people might challenge what u say, in no way shape or form is it a personal attack. Its just a friendly debate

I think people just have different opinions, hence why i created this thread.

For example some people did not believe how reliable the ezrun combos are., now there is a suggestion that they are not very powerful and thats why they dont seem to fail... there was even reference to a light bulb been more powerful. my suggestion to someone that thinks that way, buy one and prove yourself wrong. or look at the examples on youtube

I like to think i have a very good basic understanding on brushless combos and power output, and challange someone to explain how a castle ESC would be more powerfull than a ezrun 35a combo in a slash 2wd if they were both using a 380/540 motor?

here are some questions about my old videos

Allso back to the light bulb. is someone saying that this is underpowered for 2s?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbQcM_qJ5C4 do they consider the ezrun 35a underpowered on 3s????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xNlVuntoDg Sensored or sensorless.... significant difference? really in 1/10? can u explain that in more detail? what do u mean by smoother acceleration? does it effect the power curve?
From that ive seen the difference its unnoticeable when watching them. ive never driven a sensored combo so i wouldn't know

Foxy

I'm gonna have to agree, sensored vs sensorless is a night and day difference in any application. My experience at 1/8th and at 1/10th with drifters, touring cars and RWD buggies is unanimous across the board, sensorless is much, much smoother. That's not to say I ever felt I needed a sensored setup in my Jammin SC or Exo, or any other of my bashers, but I wouldn't race seriously without a sensored setup.

As for what the difference is, its just smoothness, the feel is very different, if you've tried it you don't need it explained....?

I have also observed that neu/castle motors develop a bit more grunt than most, and are slightly more efficient, which is why they are more powerful. The difference isn't much, but it's there. Does it matter? Not at 1/8th, I don't know about 1/10th. The motors are already huge overkill, so instead of 50% too powerful, the hobbywing stuff is lets say, 40% too powerful, it makes little real world difference. I have a Neu/Castle 1515Y, the famous 2200kv found in Savages and Revos, in my truggy, and I have a Hobbywing 4274SD connected to an LRP iX8 in my new buggy. The buggy feels fast and smooth and like a laser beam. The Truggy gives a ton more grunt, it's far more savage (no pun intended) and feels like a cage fighter. There's the difference between Castle/Hobbywing, and Sensored/sensorless illustrated in one paradigm.

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

The great and powerful FOXY has spoken! Well put.

I still have my neu-castle motor from the Sv2 that fried. I would love to try that motor out on my 35A HW ESC. It's just the dang bullet connectors are of different size....

phmaximus

Lol rob,..

hummmm....u got me thinking, I still don't fully understand what makes sensored better. I'm assuming its about power delivery?
Could u say the power dilevey in not as intense as a sensorless and brings the power on slightly slower?

some day when I plants get a combo for my losi 8ight 2.0
ive been eyeing off the ezrun 150a, xerun 150 and the tekin RX8
most people recommended the ezrun because of the price. Would I be better off looking at a sensored combo?
i don't plan to race it just yet, but I do plan on only using it at the track, if that makes sence?
i want to get a good 12 months practice before racing in comps.... Cheaper that way because I won't need membership, racing fees, controll tyres, etc and my local track is free to practice...


I do agree foxy, that there are alot of combos that are massively overkill for there application.
1/10 scale is no acception, as u know my slash can pull around 70a on burst, but the ESC is apparently rated to 190a...
i can't think of a rational 1/10 setup and vehicle that would pull anything ne'er that
And m doubtfull the 380/540 motor could draw that much with out failing.

.... Hey just thinking.... By my slash test and the current draw.... In theory could I run a true 540 size motor on my current setup with the slash? (Swap 380/540 3900kv for a 540 4000kv)
When coasting would the bigger motor pull less amps?

if I did that, the motor is more efficient been bigger right? So it i could match the current draw of the old motor it would be essentially more powerful because of the efficiency?

and is the amp draw limited to the traction coefficient? I mean it can only pull so much before the tyres or slipper slip right? And no way that would spike over 100a

so if I'm not missing anything I should be able to use a 540 motor with my 35a ESC??????
if anything I could convince myself its more efficient and extend run times... If that's partly true... Might have to order one