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View Poll Results: Which Motor?
Viper VST 17.5T-25.5T
1
16.67%
Orion Vortex 17.5T-25.5T
0
0%
TrakPower 17.5T-25.5T
0
0%
Reedy Sonic Mach 2 17.5T-25.5T
2
33.33%
Novak SS 17.5T
3
50.00%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

RC Plow Truck Motor Decision/Choices

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Old 11-28-2013, 05:13 PM
  #76
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well, you could switch from the tl01 to the evader. sure you will loose 4wd but at least you'll have the torque and temps where they should be.
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Old 11-28-2013, 06:04 PM
  #77
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LOL. If I could only post a video from my computer to this thread. I can't figure it out. So I'll give you a few photos of the first attempt which happened to be with the Evader...



Those pictures are cut from a video. They are NOT in order. I entered them in order, but they didn't come out in order. When you see a photo where the plow is bent or looks like it's bending and then the next shot might show the whole truck twisted, it's when I hit some nail heads that popped up on the from the deck boards. We have now stained the deck and pounded the nails back in, some we replaced with screws. So now that it's stained, we're afraid that the tire chains would scratch up the nice stain, so I wasn't able to shoot video in the same spot to compare the trucks. Sorry.
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:08 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHarder View Post
Ok, I have been searching around on the dual hunter and the wild dagger. I can't find a listing for a chassis in the US (I don't order from foreign countries.) for under $150 bid.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spiderman-Mo...item2a348146ce I realize that it's probably because of the cool body, but other than that, I'm lost. I agree with you phmaximus on the 80T having less torque than the 27T. I think if I go higher in turns, I'm going to gain low speed drivability, but loss torque. (I know many differ) So I want to get an RC4WD compact reduction unit, so that I don't have to mod the chassis. I don't know which ratio to get though, and what motor to use. I want about the same speed as the 55T, maybe slightly slower, but really increase the torque. I had to get in a rocking motion with the 55T to get it rolling. I wasn't expecting that. I want something, that instead of having to rock it to get it moving, to start moving wheels and losing traction before the motor stopping. Know what I mean? Something that actually has torque. So what motor and gear reduction ratio would give me slightly slower speed, and WAY more ACTUAL torque? Here's a link to the RC4WD gear reduction units that are available. I'm not sure which to go with... http://store.rc4wd.com/search.asp?ke...x=0&search.y=0 It would be the first three listings. What would work good with what motor?

Also, I asked earlier, what brushless motor were you using in those YouTube videos above, phmaximus? Like what brand, turn, price, etc.? That looked like it had plenty of torque/speed for what I need.
Don't give up on the wild dagger just yet... Just need to look harder
Would ordering from another contrary really be that bad? That's all a importer would do and then mark up the price. Why not cut the middle guy out?
i think overall it going to be the stronger more powerful option....

I get what u mean... U want to to have enough power that when the plow gets stuck its got enough power to spin all 4 wheels.... Not bog down with a high pitched noise doing nothing.

what u should do is try to use as much reduction as possible....that way u know u have max mechanical torque. Then once u have selected a ratio. pick a motor based on the speed u want it...trying to keep the turn count as close to 27t as possible
so to make things easier I'll see if I can get time to make a chart showing the pinions rpm with a GRU on it... Where before the pinion a Rpm was the same as the motors rpm...

Oh nearly forgot again, in the video it's running a
$35 Hobby Wing ezrun 35a V2 ESC
$42 discontinued Hobby Wing 2400kv 380/540 motor
$34 HPI GRU
$20 2s 3300mah lipo
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:12 AM
  #79
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Ok, what if I use a this: http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ess-Motor-175T and then the 4:1 reducer. with 1900kv, would that be a good powerhouse? Or should I go 4:1 with an equivalent 27T? Brushless is more expensive, but I might be willing to pay more due to better chances of it working, as I've had bad luck with brushed motors. It's going to take a lot to get me to trust brushed motors again. Every one of the 11 that I have owned has blown up, except a 14T Losi, and even that got close. I've never blown a brushless motor.

So then I should use the 4:1 reducer to maximize torque, and then what motor would you recommend to use with the 4:1 GRU, that together, would equal a little less speed than a 55T without a GRU?
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Old 11-29-2013, 05:23 PM
  #80
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He he he that's the thing with the bonzer... It likes to kill motors... I remember one guy, had great success using a 600 size brushed motor... It was the only thing I've ever heard of that increases speed and torque... Well apart from brushless... But then again there has been so many people converting them to brushless just to find out the KV is to high and cogs.

For crawling, brushed motors on a higher voltage is the best... Other than that sensored brushless is ok to...
I really don't recommend using a sensorless combo like I did.
Because sensorless motors have a minimum running speed... Anything below that and they do nothing.... They don't even try.. So u can't smoothly bring up the throttle from a stand still and u can get that really low low speed u can from brushed motors. On the controller it feels like there is a dead spot just ne'er the centre...

by the looks not manny people have used the rc4wd GRU, but from what I can understand it will get the gearing closer to what it should of been. I think u could nearly run any motor..and u shouldn't have motor problem again lol

best bet would be to try.... Do u have anything els u could borrow a motor from just for testing? That way u could get the GRU then test before ordering a motor?


1900kv x 7.4v = 14,060rpm / 4 = 3515 pinion rpm

and we know this from before, so there is no point working it out because we know it will be slower
5,500rpmx47.37mm=260,535mm/min 15.6km/h 9.7mph

by the sounds u want the pinion spinning at 8,000rpm... So u would need something that's pulls 32,000rpm

32,00rpm / 7.4v = 4,324kv
this would do it....but its sensorless
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E-Express-Ho...item4616c08509

or there is somethink like this.... But its overkill
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hobbywing-CO...item41712327bc

Last edited by phmaximus; 11-29-2013 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:51 PM
  #81
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I have a Traxxas VXL 3S motor that is 3500kv. I don't mind going a little slower. I can run the VXL motor on the VXL3S ESC on 2S with a 4:1 gear reduction unit. Will this work? I read towards the bottom of the page on the RC4WD website a note that stated that the GRU is designed for brushed motors, and that it will work with brushless motors, but won't last a long time on high powered ones. Is the VXL motor a considered a high powered motor? I'm not one to really acknowledge those kind of things when I purchase things, but because of the past failures, could this be an issue? How long is a "long time"? Like 10 years, or 6 months? Since I'm using this only in the winter, is it going to get much wear? Especially if I take it slow? Also, even though it's sensorless, am I going to notice cogging at such a low ratio? Thanks, Nate
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:46 AM
  #82
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I can't comment on there durability but I would assume its ok...
I would think the bonzers driveline would fail before the GRU lol
i don't see it getting much wear because of the speeds, but a cold wet environment won't help
and u won't see cogging but u will notice the minimum RPM issue...
http://www.homebuiltrovs.com/rovforu...php?f=3&t=1139
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:10 AM
  #83
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If u can hold out a couple of weeks. I've ordered a new brushed ESC for mine
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/320A-Brus...93c0c92&_uhb=1

ive got one in my clodbuster and so far so good. So I'm trying another one. I'll be using that with a stock 27t motor and a HPI GRU...

If u want I can get a new video. But that does not really help with the RC4wd GRU.
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:20 AM
  #84
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The Velineon VXL3S is a 200A constant, 320A peak current rated ESC. How is it that I won't see any cogging? Also, if it did cog, won't the power of the cog be 4 times as much, and may end up doing damage? But you say it won't cog. Ok. Well, what would the minimum speed to be with the 4:1 GRU and the Velineon 3500kv motor? Is the minimum speed the speed just past the cogging stage? I want to use brushless, but I don't want to spend $40+shipping for a GRU for it to fail under brushless power on the second run. Are the HPI GRUs meant to be run on brushless power?

As for Brushed, would a 4:1 with a 27T motor be sufficiently more powerful and have more actual torque than a regular 55T? I read that your using a 27T with a HPI GRU in a clodbuster. Is that about normal for the clod? Or are you going to get insane torque (Like I would think with such a ratio) out of it?
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:52 PM
  #85
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When you say it won't cog, does that mean it's going to be a nice slow takeoff just like a brushed motor? Right? Also, I read that the HPI GRU as really loud. I want to get the RC4WD as it comes with metal gears, and I want to run it with the Velineon. Is it going to cog, have enough torque, and to my figures, run about 11.43mph? Those last questions are my main focus for your next reply. Please try and answer them, as I would like to order a GRU tomorrow. Thanks.
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:42 AM
  #86
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No no... I ment I've been using that ESC I linked in my Clodbuster with no problems, and because I'm converting my bonzer into brushed from brushless I've ordered the same ESC.

my clod buster runs dual 80t motors on a 3s lipo...

I don't see that combo cogging at all because of the low gearing, they barely do it on a slash geared with 23t pinion and 87t spur....

No Gru is designed to run on brushless power. And generally people don't use them with sensorless brushless combos because sensorless sucks for crawling.

like I said before, if there is a torque spike from a stalled wheel... Its most likely that the spur gear will fail well before the GRU.... Might even be worth getting a GPM Delrin spur gear...

FYI both GRU's have metal gears...

here is a quote from another post I did today
"Yep... Sensored or brushed

"...you do not already know, the motors need to be moving a bit before the ESC can sense the motor's position and know what phase and when to energise next. To get the motor moving, the ESC randomly energises a set of coils in the motor and looks for what comes out. Some ESCs will do this better than others at lower RPM's..."


Sensorless combos don't have that smoothe transition from a standstill to driving. Like a brushed motor does because They have a minimum rpm at witch the motor will rotate.


Example... With motors on a test bench...using made up fingers but it reflects whatn I'm talking about
say u apply 2% throttle to a brushed motor... It will buzz and most likely start turning very slowly
and if u bring the throttle up from 0-100% very slowly u will see it starts off at 0rpm and increased speed with the throttle input.


say u apply 2% throttle to a sensorless combo.... nothing happens... So u bring it up very slowly to 5% then all of a sudden the motor starts spinning at 2,000rpm....(depending on motors KV) And no matter what u can't get it to spin and slower... It's either that, higher or nothing


I guess ultimately sensored brushless would be better performance wise maby due to its torque curve.... But when u compare value for money... Brushed wins hands down.."

but in summery, I WOULDN'T be worried about the GRU failing from the power... I'd be worried about the truck... That's why I would reccomend turning it into a dual hunter or do what's been proven to work(HPI GRU and brushed motor)... Even then they chew out spur gears and diff cup splines... That's shy I'm running a TT01 spool and TT01 style diff cups..

how's just messing with mine today, it striped the spur from reverse to forward wheelies... Doh... I won't do that again lol

asking how how long it's going to last is like asking how long is a peice of string
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:31 AM
  #87
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Those aluminum spurs are from Hong Kong, can't order them... How about a Viper 10.5T sensored motor for $70? Isn't that going to have power and torque mixed with a 4:1 reducer? It's a sensored motor. What would you say about Viper? I see good reviews on them, just not 100% sure about their quality.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:08 PM
  #88
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The "GPM Delrin spur gear." Spur gar is not alloy... It's made from delrin..

don't know? Never used them... I only have experience with HobbyWing, lansu and Traxxas brushless combos

All I can suggest, wi custom projects sometimes u just have to try it...

Its a a bit silly expecting to make a totally custom project but not order parts from oversees... Ur going to have a hard time making a reliable truck just from parts sourced from the US. IMO u would be better off using a car made in the US if that's the way u want to do it

why don't u want to order from overseas? Most parts come from overseas anyway...
if u really don't want to, why not get ur local hobby shop to do it for u?
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:15 PM
  #89
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Well,...

A. I don't/can't wait for parts to come on a slow boat from China, because the snow is coming.

B. Dad doesn't like to.

C. It's way more convenient to just order online and have it show up 3 days later, ready to use. We've never ordered from China, and probably won't for a long time. It's just a standard to exclude anything from foreign countries. Also, it's dad's account, not mine, and I can't convince him either way.

It seems your right. I researched the wrong product. I did remember that my wheels are NOT glued, and will slip under some serious load. So if need be, I suspect the wheel will spin inside the tire, before a gear strips. And last, my hobby shops around here don't carry Tamiya stuff, and can't order it. (At least they say) I called and asked.

It's too late to turn this project around, so I'm going to have to make this work. I think with a 4:1 GRU, and a 3100kv motor, I should go around 9mph. I'm going to order the GRU and motor tonight. This will be the fourth motor, and hopefully, it's just what the doctor ordered. I'm going to try and take advantage of Amain hobbies' cyber Monday sale where everything is 10% off. I wish they carried the RC4WD GRU...

Could you give me a link to the correct spur that you were talking about, along with your opinion on the setup? Your opinion, review, and approval are very important to me. Thanks.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:25 PM
  #90
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With Tamiya things you almost have to order stuff from china or Japan.
Hell when I need replacement parts those 2 countries are almost the only ones with anything, and China usually has the only aftermarket parts available as Tamiyas are popular there.
Honestly I've ordered parts from China, and get them faster then when I ordered from Tamiya USA, and I got them cheaper from china (cost, and shipping).
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:14 AM
  #91
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Man that must really make it hard... If not impossible if u have a imported chassis, can't find parts locally and can't order from ever sea's. What happens is something brakes and u can't get it locally?

Here is the spur gear I was talking about.... U should be able to get it locally...
http://www.gpmracing-parts.com/shop/...-90009868.html
but only worry about that when the stock one fails...

Well sounds like u have a plan. Goodluck.... And with any luck the GRU will resolve any further motor problems...

i think when when up get all the bits and get it running, it defiantly will be worth getting working suspension again
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Old 12-03-2013, 08:51 AM
  #92
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Well, I changed my mind on the Viper motor, instead was going to go with a Reedy Mach 2 13.5T. But then we realized that you can't get the 10% off Cyber Monday deal, unless you spend $100 or more. So we found then, that I could spend $90 on the Reedy motor, or $100 on a Tekin Gen2 Redline 13.5T with 10% off. Either way, it was the same price. So we ordered a Tekin $100 dollar motor and got it for the same price as a $90 motor. Good deal! But $99.99 wasn't enough for the 10% off. So I purchased the screws that I will need to mount the GRU to the motor. I also ordered the GRU. It should all be here by Friday, maybe Saturday. Can't wait to install it and get it running. I think in the summer too, I'm going to leave the whole system in, and do some suspension/spur/wheels/tires/body mods, and turn it into a crawler for summer, and a snow plow truck for winter. I've never done crawling, but it's always appealed to me. I enjoy watching crawling videos on YouTube, even when people tell me it's boring...

As for getting parts that are hard to come by, I can usually look up the Tamiya part number and find the part on eBay. I downloaded a TL-01 manual to my computer that has all the numbers, diagrams, etc. I have yet to find a part on my truck that I can't purchase in the US on eBay. I works out great because most TL-01 parts are shared with other trucks, so even if they aren't under the TL-01 name, they are still compatible. That's where the part number comes in. I'm not planning on slamming forward and reverse with this thing, so I hope the spur holds under light use. If not, I'll get that delrin one. Thanks for the link and all your help! I hope this works out!
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:33 PM
  #93
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Fingers crossed... How exciting... Can't wait to see some videos and to see how close the calculations are....goodluck
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:00 PM
  #94
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Same here! Parts should show up Saturday. Can't wait.
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