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Viper VST 17.5T-25.5T
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Reedy Sonic Mach 2 17.5T-25.5T
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RC Plow Truck Motor Decision/Choices

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Old 11-12-2013, 03:32 PM
  #1
DieHarder
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Default RC Plow Truck Motor Decision/Choices

Hi guys,
I built an RC snow plow and mounted it on my Haiboxing Bonzer Cross Tiger (Tamiya TL-01 w/ MT tires and long A-arms) I bought this http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ess-Motor-215R for a low speed high torque motor. I wanted sensored for the smoothness. I received the motor Thursday, installed it Friday and tried it a bit. It seemed to work good. It lacked a little power, but it was fine. Then Saturday I plugged it in, and started pulling the trigger, when it started cogging severely. It was weak on power too. So I tested the sensor wire with a multi-meter, and found that good, the wire was plugged it fine, and I couldn't fix it. So I called Amain Hobbies, and got them to take it back under "faulty" after explaining my issues. Now I'm hunting for another motor. I have these five in mind, but I can't decide on which one. I want it to run cool, be nice and torquey, and NOT cog. I don't have experience with any of these brands, and I'm looking for some advice. Also, I'm hooking it up to a Traxxas Velenion 3S ESC, but I'm only running 2S.

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ess-Motor-175T

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ess-Motor-215T

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCMBH&P=7

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ess-Motor-175T

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...r-17-5-NOV3417

The last one is discontinued, but my LHS has it in stock for $59.99. Looks good, but not sure. Of course on all these motors (Except the last one) I can get either 17.5, 21.5, or 25.5 turns (I believe). That is also something I'm not sure of. The Speed Passion 21.5T was nice, but a bit weak (Not so torquey), so I thought about going to 17.5 on one of the motors listed above, but I don't know if going with a lower turn rating will help so much with the torque part. I want low-speed torque, not high RPM power. Does anyone have any thoughts on what would be best? Thanks!
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:18 PM
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Honestly, why not get a brushed crawler motor? no cog, low cost, naturally waterproof (just oil bearings after running)
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:52 PM
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I tried that, but it lacks the torque. I've looked at bigger ones, but my motor mold in the chassis won't allow a bigger motor than a 540. The motor I tried was a fairly strong brushed motor, but still failed. I want something that won't overheat under load, and I realize that it's going to stress a brushless motor, but the brushless motors have a temperature shut down stage, incase of near burn up. (The cold temps should also help prevent a burn up.) I also want it to last a long time, as I've put MANY hours into building this plow, after 2 previous fails... Trying not to shoot you down there, but I just wanted to give the details of when I tried what your suggesting. Please, if you have anymore ideas, post them, I'll be glad to hear them.
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Honestly, why not get a brushed crawler motor? no cog, low cost, naturally waterproof (just oil bearings after running)
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:58 PM
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what brushed motor did you try? (how many turns?)
a good crawler motor can move 10 pound rc's up steep hills for over half hour in 80 degree weather without overheating. hard to imagine that it wouldn't work pushing snow in the cold.

You mentioned you have a tl-01 clone. gearing may be part of your issue. you only have a few gear choices in that model, but you will certainly want to use the smallest gear you can.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:18 PM
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I Believe it's this one: http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...T-Desert-Truck Not 100% sure though. What motor would you use?

And yes, it is geared to it's lowest, which is a 19T pinion.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHarder View Post
I Believe it's this one: http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...T-Desert-Truck Not 100% sure though. What motor would you use?

And yes, it is geared to it's lowest, which is a 19T pinion.
yeh, even not trying crawling or plowing that motor would overheat in that truck.
you want a HIGH turn motor for torque.
with brushed motors....the lower the turn number the higher the rpms, but less torque. thus, we always gear down when we "upgrade" to a faster motor. the result is similar torque to stock motor but higher top speed.
but with crawling, torque matters and speed comes second. a high turn motor produces more torque with less rpms.
axial crawlers generally have 27t motors, but geared low.
but we can buy 35, 45, 50, 55 or even 100t motors.
My 1/8 clod based crawler I just got has 2 (motor over axle) 55 turn motors. it is a 11 pound truck and you can drive upto a wall and the motors will push it right up said wall.
A 45-55t motor should do the trick. and they run $30 or so. Maybe even less.
And also, since crawler motors turn at lower rpms, they generally last longer than those used in a monster truck or stadium truck. less rpms means less wear on the brushes. Naturally, dirt/sand/water can compensate for that, but in general brushed motors do well in crawlers.
If you look threw youtube, you can find many crawlers with homemade plows and they run brushed motors.

there is nothing wrong with going brushless of course, it will just cost more....and getting a waterproof brushless will be important. You will want a brushless motor that is very low KV (means rpms/volt)
some BL motors are rated by turns (not equivilant of brushless turns) and some by KV. I use the KV rating myself. Lower kv=more torque. And given that your model has limited gearing, choosing a motor of very low KV will make the truck act like it is geared low.
A standard truck would run a 3300-4000kv motor. So a 1500-2000kv motor would likely provide enough torque for the job, while still giving you "ramming" speed.
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:53 PM
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SO... If I bought a 55T, how fast would the truck go? Also, is it strong enough, that I would be able to turn tires on carpet? Or would I need a higher turn? Thanks!
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:33 PM
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35t at least IMO 40s would probably do better
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:28 AM
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The number of turns of the motor is not what determines its torque. It's a good indicator, all other factors being equal, but all other factors are NOT equal among different motors and brands. For example, the larger the comm diameter, the higher quality the construction, and a hundred other factors will make a much bigger difference to final torque or top end than 10 turns either way.

For example, if you get a RC4WD standard 540 35T can, non-rebuildable for just $10, due to the shape of the brushes (C shaped), you won't get the torque that you would get from say a Holmes Hobbies Torquemaster pro hand-wound 27t, which would give you enough power to pull tree stumps.

If you want my serious recommendation, a Tekin FXR with a Holmes Hobbies Torquemaster Expert 35T (machine wound, but still a hundred times stronger than the cheap 35T cans).

With that on 3S, you will still have wheel speed on demand, and more than enough torque to push a plough. Alternatively, the Holmes Hobbies BRXL is a good choice for ESC, it is the smoothest brushed ESC available at the moment. All of these are available at Amainhobbies.

Last edited by Foxy; 11-13-2013 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:01 AM
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Thanks Foxy. I like your motor recommendations, but I already have an ESC, and I'm nearing the end of my budget. I have enough left to get a reasonable expensive brushless motor (Extremely expensive brushed) but not enough for both an ESC and a motor. So 35t is what I should run then? What if I did 55T? Would I still get the ramming speed to push large amounts of snow into a pile? Thanks.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:04 AM
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You won't get much wheel speed unless you run 3S and gear to the moon. Even in my comp crawler, the 45ts were just a bit too slow, even on 3S.

If you have enough money for a good brushless motor, you have enough for an even better brushed setup...when you say a good bl motor, I'm thinking $100?

These won't run you a lot more and are well accepted high torque scaler/crawler/robot set...

Waterproof Sidewinder 3 -*http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...1-10-Sport-ESC

Holmes Torquemaster 35t machine wound...*http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...tric-Motor-35T

I think you can get a $12.50 discount on that order, bringing you just under $100, for an almost 'pro' setup. For what you want, I definitely think 35T is the way to go. You can always ebay the velineon.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:23 AM
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Isn't that esc just about the same thing as the velineon that I have now? I would really like to use the velineon on this thing. If I hook that holmes hobbies motor up to my velineon, would it pull just as much power/torque/speed/ etc. as the sidewinder?
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:47 AM
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Yeh, sure, I didn't realise the Velineon was brushed capable? Sorry, my bad, yeh, no real difference in that case.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:03 AM
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Was thinking does the RC have any plastic parts in the drive chain? I know quite a few have plastic prop shafts, and some tamiyas have plastic diff cups.
Cause if it does chances are they will break under any real torque(specially when they start to freeze) if you plan on using it to actually try and plow some snow
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:32 AM
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Foxy: Ok, so then I don't need the ESC that you listed?

SyCo: I don't have a drive chain. I'm thinking you meant is "drivetrain". Yes, all the gears (including spur) are plastic. The diff internals (Bevels, spiders, and outdrives) are all metal. The actual diff gear itself is plastic. Also, the dogbones, drive cups, etc are metal. The hex adapters are plastic though. I have plowed snow with it before, (Had a terrible heavy, sheet metal, bent plow that I used) and didn't had any trouble with the drivetrain. That was using the VXL 3500kv BL sensorless motor that cogged. So now, after building a new plow, I found that I can't have cogging, it just won't work for me, and that this year, it's going to work. I DO plan on plowing snow 1-2" (maybe 3") deep, so I'm serious about the torque. Thanks for thinking of that though. If you have anymore thoughts, feel free to post!
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHarder View Post
Foxy: Ok, so then I don't need the ESC that you listed?

SyCo: I don't have a drive chain. I'm thinking you meant is "drivetrain". Yes, all the gears (including spur) are plastic. The diff internals (Bevels, spiders, and outdrives) are all metal. The actual diff gear itself is plastic. Also, the dogbones, drive cups, etc are metal. The hex adapters are plastic though. I have plowed snow with it before, (Had a terrible heavy, sheet metal, bent plow that I used) and didn't had any trouble with the drivetrain. That was using the VXL 3500kv BL sensorless motor that cogged. So now, after building a new plow, I found that I can't have cogging, it just won't work for me, and that this year, it's going to work. I DO plan on plowing snow 1-2" (maybe 3") deep, so I'm serious about the torque. Thanks for thinking of that though. If you have anymore thoughts, feel free to post!
Was auto correct that changed that

Hmm shocked the plastic gears held up in all honesty
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:42 PM
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I'm not saying that the Velineon is the right speed control for what you want to do, I don't know enough about it, but if it can power a brushed motor on 3S it should do the job...its current rating way exceeds what a 35T will ever ask of it.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:45 PM
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Ok, back to the 3S thing. I don't own a 3S for a car/truck. I own a 3S for a Parkzone Radian which is a glider, but I don't have one for truck. I am going to run a 2S battery on the Velineon with the brushed motor. Am I going to still have enough power? Even if I don't, I'm still gonna try it, because after all the other mods I had to do to this truck, I can't afford another battery.

There is no gear mod for the truck as far as I know. I have searched everywhere for a metal gear upgrade, but struck out.

So if I buy that Holmes Hobbies motor, run the Velineon on 2S, and use a 19T pinion, I'll have all the power the motor will give, it'll be plenty strong, and quick enough to ram snow into a pile. Correct?
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:02 PM
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Also, just so you know, this is a TL-01 copy, so it's geared to the moon for 35mph speeds. But even so, it's going to work on a 35T without overheating? Just making sure...
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:31 PM
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Id go with a 35t brushed myself. stock was a 27t that likely got you 25mph and decent, tho not enough torque.
A good 35t with lowest pinion gear should provide the needed torque and still give you 10-15mph. Hard to say exact.

the VXL esc I don't think will work with a brushed motor. I could be wrong, but pretty sure it is a brushed only ESC.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHarder View Post
Also, just so you know, this is a TL-01 copy, so it's geared to the moon for 35mph speeds. But even so, it's going to work on a 35T without overheating? Just making sure...
It definitely won't overheat. If you're straining it up against a snow bank, it goes without saying to be careful. Any motor combo would melt something if locked and pushed.

I too thought the Velineon was brushless only, but I am happy to be wrong.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHarder View Post
Ok, back to the 3S thing. I don't own a 3S for a car/truck. I own a 3S for a Parkzone Radian which is a glider, but I don't have one for truck. I am going to run a 2S battery on the Velineon with the brushed motor. Am I going to still have enough power? Even if I don't, I'm still gonna try it, because after all the other mods I had to do to this truck, I can't afford another battery.

There is no gear mod for the truck as far as I know. I have searched everywhere for a metal gear upgrade, but struck out.

So if I buy that Holmes Hobbies motor, run the Velineon on 2S, and use a 19T pinion, I'll have all the power the motor will give, it'll be plenty strong, and quick enough to ram snow into a pile. Correct?
Sorry, missed this one...

Your glider battery is probably ideal for this. As long as its C rating equals 40A or mmore it'll be fine (this setup won't pull more than 40A constant), but I don't think you'll have any issues on 2S either, you will probably still have the wheelspeed on 2S if the gearing is as tall as you say it is. That motor will be very torquey, whether its 2S or 3S. We like 3S for the wheelspeed, more than the torque, though the extra volts do provide a bit of extra torque too.

I believe your final statement to be true, (that with that setup on 2S you'll have enough torque to push the snow around, assuming your tires get traction), and just enough wheelspeed to give it a good shove if needed, but there are many variables, I don't want to be held responsible if something melts the first time. You should obviously start small with your snow pushing, and work your way up to the larger operatoins as you verify the capabilities of the setup.
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:37 AM
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Thanks Foxy! I am going to get the Holmes Hobbies motor, but I don't feel we've full discussed the turn rating. 35T, 45T, or 55T. Seems to me 55T would be quite strong and unstoppable. I found this thread where a guy is using a 55T.... http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/inde...howtopic=69607 It's the 8th post down. He has a picture there. I'm not trying to be bothersome on bringing this up again, I just want to be sure that it's going to work before I go out and spend $50. Personally, it seems to me that a 45T would do pretty good from what I've learned in the past week. But maybe it won't have the ramming speed? I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking. Thanks.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:17 AM
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I believe that within reason, the motor construction and quality will make more difference to the torque than the number of turns. You may buy an Integy 55T for example, and find that its pitiful compared to the 35T torquemaster. I'm not saying that's the case, but it's possible. Additionally, I think you're going to be disappointed with the wheel speed available from anything over 35T, particularly on 2S,
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:29 AM
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So torque master it is then! Thanks a lot Foxy, nitrosportsandrunner, and SyCo_VeNoM! I hope this works out, and I'll post more about it later. If I order today it should be here by Monday, which is when the snow might start. Thanks again!
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