nitrosportsandrunner

I just bought a Kyosho Mad Force EP roller.

I think I have only had one kyosho before...an older buggy.

I cant say I know much about the mad force, other than the odd suspension setup and the chain drive.

But I just looked at some vids of the newest ep version, with a brushless setup. I am not sure what is different on the new version other than shocks and I think the rear suspension arms are longer. If anyone can point out other differences, Id love to know.

Mine includes servo and a motor only. Based on the pics, im assuming it should have had 2 motors, like an emaxx.

I have a DTX 540 brushless motor and I may have a AE brushless ESC that works. I don't know how big/heavy a Mad force is, but im hoping a basic 540 brushless motor on 2s can push the truck along at a decent speed.

I paid more than I wanted, but then I don't think you can get any 4wd solid axle MT roller for under $100 shipped. The tires looks awesome!

nitrosportsandrunner

I thought I would ask the seller if a pinion gear is included, or if he knows what pitch it is. But ebay wont let me contact him for some reason. If anyone knows what pitch the spur gear is or what size the stock pinion is, please LMK.
I did figure out it is a Kyosho Twin Force. I don't think the carbon fiber side plates are stock tho.

nitrosportsandrunner

ah, I actually have a twin force spirit....the carbon fiber plates are stock

Maj_Overdrive

My Feedback: (11)

The new brushless versions come with Orion motors and esc. They're a 1/8 system, not the most powerful 1/8 system but a true 1/8 system on 4s nonetheless. I doubt a single 540 is going to cut it unless you gear it on the low side. I seem to remember the first batch of the new brushless ones coming with the dual motor mount so I doubt they changed much. Have a look at Thunder Tech for various aftermarket parts. From what I've read these trucks need the steering system improved and ThunderTech has a kit to mount the servo to the axle but there are upgrade parts that work just as good while keeping the servo on the chassis.

phmaximus

I love it!!! The idea of having a big MT with a solid drive line..... I predict big wheelies

Hey.... I've got a sneaky suspicion that SCT bodies fit those, just for something different...a proline true scale body would be cool....

nitrosportsandrunner

maybe....wheelbase is about 12''

I took a look at thunder tech....I think I can make a axle servo mount plate like theirs pretty easy. And I had notices that chassis mount servo and figured it much suck just like the wheely kings'

I have run both a emaxx and a Esavage on a single VXL motor/3s. But you do have to gear it down a fair bit...you wont get much more than 30mph.

I had seen the VE model. It is true it has a 1/8 and runs 4s, but it can also do a standing backflip! I wont get that much power with a 540, but It should still be better than twin brushed motors. Even on the emaxx I am not a fan of the twin 550's....even a single titan 775 is better than the twin 550's.

I wont know until I get it, but I am kind of hoping that it is a bit lighter than a emaxx or Esavage. The design looks simpler and like it has less material to it.

after I get it and get it running, I will have to buy a body for it. once I know the wheelbase for sure, I can see if a redcat GP body will fit...or maybe a wheelyking body.

If they did not make many changes for the VE brushless version, then this thing should be a tank just running a smaller brushless motor, with lower speeds and less torque.

pcarluvr

<---- Jealous! I really wanted the nitro version of this truck before I got my Savage. I like the handling ( or lack of) and the way they land jumps with the solid axles. I would imagine it will be a lot lighter due to there being no shock tower bolted to diff case, upper and lower arms and hinge pins. Over at rcmt.net , there are a ton of people that know all the upgrades and mods. Keep us updated on how it goes for you!

nitrosportsandrunner

I too am thinking it should be lighter. something between a scx10 and a emaxx.
that is why I was thinking I could power it with a geared down 1/10 scale brushless system.
However, while looking into the pinion gear I see that the newer brushless version with a 2000ish kv 1/8 scale motor uses a 16t pinion gear. So, I kinda doubt that I can gear down enough for a 3500kv 1/10 motor. I cant imagine that a much smaller pinion gear would still mesh with the spur gear.
So, when it arrives I will not likely have a power system for a bit.
I may try the DTX 3930kv motor I have just to see. but my bet is that even on 2s it will heat up pretty quick. Oh, second problem of trying to run a 1/10 scale system...I don't currently have a 3s pack

But hopefully work will pickup and Ill have some spare cash before too long. But a pinion gear, 3s lipo, 1/8 bl system alone are going to cost more than I paid for the roller. And that doesn't even count the money I will need to do upgrades!

nitrosportsandrunner

my twin force arrived today. doesn't look to bad shape.

I do notice that the front wheels can turn so much that they hit the suspension arms I will be using my GT3c radio, so I can just turn down steering rate. But it seems like the front tires should be spaced further apart so that they don't hit.

I also noticed that it is 4WD in forward, but for braking it is just RWD. I assume this is because it uses the same trans as the nitro version? Or did they just slap a 1 way bearing in there?

I think this truck is light enough for a properly geared 1/10 scale system to power. The key is "properly geared" . The Brushless version has a 16tooth pinion, which is pretty small I think.
I will be taking the truck to the hobby shop tomorrow so that I can test out some gears and see how small of a pinion I can fit on it. I hope the store has several 3mm 32 pitch gears on hand.

nitrosportsandrunner

I did much digging and found a pinion gear that fit! The truck came with just one stock motor...did that keep me from trying it out, NO.

I slapped a old novak forward only ESC and a single 7.2v nimh battery on it. It certainly wasn't fast, maybe 12mph. Did not pop any wheelies either, but I drove it around for 5 minutes or so and got an idea of how it drives.

I had to turn down the steering rate the 60% to keep the wheels from hitting the suspension arms!

I like the Rear only brakes. On loose dirt or dirty pavement you can turn it, jam on the brakes and it will turn very sharp for a large MT.

After five minutes or so the motor was getting warm (not bad, maybe 110) and I was basically done testing it out. then I tried to climb up a set of low steps....the truck bounced up and down as it tried to get traction....the motor did not like this at all. every time the truck landed it put a load on it, then it got some air and the motor sped up, then it landed and the load again. took about 8 seconds before I saw some smoke from the motor. The motor still works fine, but the brushes didn't like that type of abuse.

I was running a 20t pinion. seems the stock is a 18t. The motor mount has very little room for adjustment. The brushless version tho uses a 16t...I am not sure if it's motor mount is different. At any rate, I fear I will have to mod the motor mount in order to gear a 1/10 BL motor down enough to work. But if I can get 25 or even 30mph on a 1/10 scale system running 3s I will be happy. Once I get some pinion gears, I will install the system and run it on 2s first.

Maj_Overdrive

My Feedback: (11)

I believe there are different suspension arms availible that fix this. I forget if it's an aftermarket item or whether the as were redesigned for later models.

nitrosportsandrunner

I will have to look into it. I tried making an account on RCMT.net as it looks like there are many TF owners there, but the site is screwed up and I got a message saying the admin had banned my email (as I registered!)

I did browse their section on the TF / MF. Seems some others have made single brushless motor conversions...I saw some pics with 4000-4500kv motors (4 pole, but still high kv) I couldn't tell if they had modded the motor mount to use a smaller pinion gear tho. But it gives me hope that my 3900kv motor can work. Really wish I could post on that site and ask!!!

It seems other kyosho diff parts can work, some parts from the nitro version are better and can swap in and that some mod the center diff to be locked. I may want to lock the center diff. I like rwd braking for faster turning, but not having 4wd when in reverse could mean it would get stuck in places a 4wd mt should not.

It is wild, some of the pics on that site. seems these trucks get transformed as much as the axial SCX10 does. I saw some Big Foot trucks (narrowed frame) and several 4 linked crawlers.

I am a little worried that the TF version's diff gears will not hold up to a brushless system. Only time will tell. If they don't, I can see myself spending some big $$$ on upgrades.

nitrosportsandrunner

got my brushless motor on it just now. I bought a 16t pinion gear.

the motor is a DTX 3900 (or 3930, I forget which) and for a esc is a AE sc 450 (or could be a 700, the label is missing!)

I only had a decent 4200mah 6cell nimh charged but took it out anyway. The speed wasn't bad at all. I did not have my GPS (will get a reading later) but it seemed to be about 20mph.

By the time the pack dumped, it was the hottest thing on the truck, running 130 degrees. the esc (which is a bit glitch) was 125 and the motor was 120 (no heat sink)
So, with this gearing I should be able to run a 2s for sure.
The only thing with this test is that it couldn't pull a wheely. I don't know if this was cause of the gearing, the ESC's settings (it does have a punch control) or maybe just the slipper clutch.
Once I have a charged 2s to try I will see if that does wheelies. If not I will check the slipper.

Even at the speeds I just had it at, it becomes a wild ride. with such wide tires, any bumps can pull the truck to one side or the other. I wouldn't say that it is uncontrollable, but it is not as stable as wheely king. But it isn't bad either, considering its size.

nitrosportsandrunner

a huge downer.....
I just tried my 2s pack....after the 3rd blip of the throttle the truck stopped working. That esc that had been a bit glitchy just quit. Now I need a new brushless ESC
And I didn't even get to see if it would pop a wheely on 2s.

phmaximus

Ooooooh man that sucks, I feel ur pain lol

nitrosportsandrunner

well, I did find some one on ebay selling new SC700 esc's for $50 shipped. same as is in my sc10rs. Not the best esc to try and run on a 1/8, but the price is hard to beat. But even at that price, I gotta scrape up some cash.

This truck may end up being a long-drawn out build for me. But it is such a cool looking chassis!

Maj_Overdrive

My Feedback: (11)

2s? Forget that! Check this out!
http://www.rctech.net/forum/monster-...completed.html

collector1231

My Feedback: (1)

Are those the pictures of the one you bought? If so, I think I know the guy you bought it from. Sounds crazy, but true, lol.

nitrosportsandrunner

yep, those are the pics from the ebay ad I bought it from.

I cannot imagine 8s. I have seen video of the MF Kruiser on 4s....which looks a lot like a savage flux on 6s (probly cause the kyosho is lighter)
I will likely stick with 2s since 1)I cant afford a motor/esc that will do 3s properly and 2) I am pretty sure that even 3s may require some driveline upgrades. 2s wont be that much more power than the stock twin brushed motors....but it will run on a single battery!
My test drive the other day on a nimh doing about 20mph showed that even at that speed it is a fun truck. Should be great at any sand pit/gravel yard/construction site!

I am going to texas next week...but when I get back I will probly buy one of those SC700 ESC's for the TF. If I order it now, it will sit in my mailbox for a week....don't want to risk someone stealing it.

The_Shark

So much YES. I freaking love my mad force, I have a nitro one *cough cough proper cough* and it is controlled chaos. I wouldn't trust a 540, however it is light enough to run a 550 SC system.

phmaximus

Hey, does it have a slipper???

nitrosportsandrunner

sure does.