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Good idea for science with my car!

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Old 02-06-2007, 04:29 AM
  #1
lachy1
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Default Good idea for science with my car!

Hey guys,

We have a thing called an SRP , Student research project due in 2 months and i am strained for ideas, we are allowed to do whatever we want, so i want to do something with my buggy! , It has to be fairly complex and nothing that will only take 2 hours.

I have a hyper 7 buggy , I was thinking maybe testing different nitro formula's eg, 15% , 20% , 25% , but it doesnt seem complex enough. It wont take long enough and i wont get good marks. I have also thought something to do with tyres and traction, and maybe i could incoperate friction into that and do something on how differnt tyres affect speed ect.

thanks guys, any ideas would be great!!!
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Old 02-06-2007, 04:47 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

Yuo could experiment with gearing and how it effects the overall speed?
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Old 02-06-2007, 05:42 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

Thats not a bad idea, Although, i need to have variables, in the fuel case, The variables would be 15% , 20% , 25% , in gearing what variales could i have that wouldnt cost me a bomb? , i guess i could experiment with 2 speed and 1 speed, and differnt clutches... hmm
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Old 02-06-2007, 05:57 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

You could also research how the shock springs effect handling with different shock oils.

Good luck with your project.
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Old 02-06-2007, 06:11 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

thanks guys, i like the shock oil idea and the gear idea, the only problem is there slighty basic, i dont think i would get good marks as it wont take that long to experiment with shock oils.. hmm
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Old 02-06-2007, 08:41 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

How about hight and length of jumps based on ramp size, ramp shape and velocity? does a curved ramp really make you jump further? how much curve is too much? how does the length of the ramp effect things?
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Old 02-06-2007, 11:36 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

How about suspension adjustment and turning radius (cheap way of skid pad testing) at a constant speed. Camber, caster, tow, ride height, shock oil, shock angle, sway bar, roll center, are all potential variables for you to play with. Aside from having substantial scale automotive testing results for your project, you will become an ace at suspension tuning (and definitely improve your lap times if you're a racer).
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Old 02-06-2007, 11:37 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

You could also expand to slolam times. Worn off-road tires, a clean parking lot, stop watch, and some empty soda cans are all you need.
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

Just a question, what grade are you in and what level is the class?
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: i8tweety

How about suspension adjustment and turning radius (cheap way of skid pad testing) at a constant speed. Camber, caster, tow, ride height, shock oil, shock angle, sway bar, roll center, are all potential variables for you to play with. Aside from having substantial scale automotive testing results for your project, you will become an ace at suspension tuning (and definitely improve your lap times if you're a racer).
I was going to suggest this very thing.
If that doesn't get in depth enough for you then you could add in different road surfaces and how that impacts identical set ups. If you need more then you could do a little research and do a compare/contrast thing with how suspension set up affects 1:1 Stock cars and show how rc's are similar or different than 1:1 vehicles. Heck, Nascar crews change suspension set ups when they change tires or the track warms up or after rubber builds up on the track or....well every little thing can affect handling.
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Old 02-06-2007, 03:02 PM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

thanks guys , these are all great! , know i dont know which one to choose haha, I like the ramp jumping ect, I also like the suspension ideas, although im pretty new to nitro's so i have no idea about suspension , ect have to start somewhere i guess.

Im in Year 10, 2 years from finishing high school.

This is great, last year i did my SRP on some ****ty plant, now im doing it on a nitro!
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Old 02-06-2007, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: running_gag

How about hight and length of jumps based on ramp size, ramp shape and velocity? does a curved ramp really make you jump further? how much curve is too much? how does the length of the ramp effect things?
Im starting to really like this idea, Because that may be too easy, although it is still a great one to choose, i can add things like , how do differentt types of ramps effect the speed , high and velocity, such as glass ramp, wooden ramp, concrete ramp.

awesome
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Old 02-06-2007, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

I'm a little concerned about timing with the ramp idea. if you land wrong or have a bad ramp setup you could easily break. Being you're on a time crunch (and you are although it may not seem like it) you really can't afford to be broken

remember - you will need to build ramp(s) and modify them for different angles, lengths, etc. test and retest and then write the report on it. Honestly, if you had more time this may be a better (and funner) option
Although if you could give a live demo (or at least show a vid) that would make your presentation awesome

For the suspension tuning, you could even add weight in frt/rr or sides to throw off weight distrubtion (or improve it) and study those effects


my .02 good luck and keep us informed
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Old 02-06-2007, 04:27 PM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: i8tweety

You could also expand to slolam times. Worn off-road tires, a clean parking lot, stop watch, and some empty soda cans are all you need.
I was going to reccomend the same thing, there's a lot of things you can do with testing this. You could do so much such as shock oil weight, spring rate's different camber's toe in and toe out. You could also do some testing with some rear wings, as for down force while testing this. When getting into the suspension settup there's a lot more to it then most people think there is. But it's up to you and what you want, but one thing about ramping is there's always varibales such as how you take the jump, weather you hit the jump straight or sideways and other things like that.

If you do a slolam the only real variables are what you put into it. But as I said it's up to you, good luck.
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Old 02-06-2007, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

How about 2 same rc cars, and have one that is modified, and one control?

Maybe have a buddy thathas a same car as yours, and race them with different gear ratios, tires and nitro percentage?

Obviously, the rest (chassis, engines suspension, etc.. have to be the same).
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Old 02-06-2007, 05:29 PM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

LOL. I remember way back in elemantary school. me and my friends did the same experiment. good way to get the parents to buy us new toys

have fun experimenting!
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Old 02-06-2007, 05:53 PM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

You could do it on engine tuning? Maybe fuel and air ratio to performance?
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Old 02-07-2007, 01:00 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

you guys are great! , Im starting to steer away from the ramp idea now that you point out all those variables, my plan is due tommorow which isnt worth any marks but it needs to be handed up,

Im like 3 ideas you guys have put forward

1. Tuning and differnt fuel/air ratios.
2. Suspension and shock oils, although im not expereinced in any way on the topc of suspension so it could be hard.
3. The solam tires thing I could make my own on road track using cones and stuff and beat lap times. I could incoperate number 1 idea with 3.

How about, the on road track thing, testing with differnt tyres and differnt fuel/air ratios with wing off and wing on , and the car with extra weight and normal weight.
I feel this is starting to come together, this is going to be awesome , weeee

I need to decide within the next 4 hours

thanks guys
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Old 02-07-2007, 01:09 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

I thought about testing mileage with different nitro percentages for my project in 8th grade but I ended up strapping a rocket to it and blasting it 300 ft down the road, I was testing which aerodynamic aspects I could change to achieve more distance.
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Old 02-07-2007, 01:25 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

Lol at the rocket, i dno if my teacher will like me strapping a rocket to something.

How about this !! Read below!

I test different Nitro fuels such as 15% 20% 25% - on a on-road track. As one of my variables i will test how different tyres affect the overall milage, such as off road tyres, on road tires, salam tires or whatever they are called, and how extra weight affects the overall milage.

I think this will be perfect and not to hard to do, Does anyone know if there is any chance of finding a RC pedometer? ( measures distance travelled) , if not then i guess i can just count how many laps it does of my track.



Technically i will need to run 12 tests ,

Great
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Old 02-07-2007, 08:24 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

Suspension tuning is a science all in itself. It is not just quick and basic. As you said earlier, adjusting shock oil is too basic? There is alot of science to be explained here such as car pitch which means weight transfer. So a lighter oil in the front and rear shocks means more weight on the rear wheels during acceleration but means less weight on the front. This is science.

You can explain ride heights and how this transfers into a higher CG, camber links and how this translates into the roll center, how both ride height and the camber links affect the roll center. There is just so much science and physics here.

Check out http://pandora.users.be/elvo to read up on the science behind. But don't plagerize his website! Write your own stuff and do your own testing and verify.
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Old 02-07-2007, 08:42 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

Quote:
although im not expereinced in any way on the topc of suspension so it could be hard.
Isn't that the point? Independent study/student research project is about learning. Simply decide on 3 or 4 variables to be studied (shock oil weight (front and rear), toe in, camber, ride height). Set everything else up as fixed.

Take your current chassis setup with 30wt oil on all four corners, set your front toe to 0 degrees, set camber to 0 degrees, and ride height to level suspension arms. Mark it down as your control settings.

(1) with all else the same, change the front shock oil in 5 wt increments from 10 wt to 50. Record your results
(2) with the front shock oil back at 30wt, change your rear shock oil in 5 wt increments from 10 to 50. Record your results
(3) with your rear shock oil back at 30wt, adjust your front toe from -5 degrees to +5 degrees in 1 degree increments. Record your results
(4) with your toe back at 0 degrees, adjust your camber from -5 to +5 degreed in 1 degree increments. Record your results.
(5) with camber back at 0 degrees, adjust your ride height up and down 5 mm in 1 mm increments. Record your results.
(6) set-up the car based on the best result for each adjustment. Record your results.
(7) with set-up from 6, adjust your front shock oil up 5wt and down 5wt. Record your results. Do this for the rear shocks, toe, camber, and ride height (to show whether the variables are dependent or independent.

Graph your results. Look at the graphs. Write your conclusions. Collect your A.

No previous knowledge required. Minimal brain strain. You accidentally learn something. Life is good.
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Old 02-07-2007, 09:24 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

When I attempted to do a project like that with an RC car it didn't work out well... so I built an 8 foot trebuchet and there are so many different things you can do to tweek them..

Listen to what i8Tweety said above me...
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Old 02-07-2007, 09:27 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

If I was your teacher, I don't think testing nitro fuels for mileage is a good study project. Know why? Because all you are doing is checking for mileage. You said maybe you could incorporate friction into it? So how are you going to do that?

I don't think you really thought this through. Like some of us have been saying, study suspension, and learn everything about it. There is alot to be said in a study report about suspension, car dynamics, etc...

Here are a few questions about suspension and car physics you could talk about and answer in your study project:

1) What is the roll center? And what effect does this have on the roll axis?
2) What is the center of gravity?
3) What is the roll moment?
4) What is the spring rate? What effect does this have on the car?
5) What is the damper rate? What effect does this have on the car?
6) What are the usual slip angles for understeer?
7) What are the usual slip angles for oversteer?
8) How does anti-squat increase traction?
9) How does weight distribution affect the center of gravity?
10) What are the effects of caster?
11) How does toe-in stabilize the car? Why is toe-out an unstable system?

If you can't answer some of these questions, that would mean they are good topics for you to study. Like the guy above said, you will learn something which is the point behind a study project.
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Old 02-07-2007, 09:32 AM
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Default RE: Good idea for science with my car!

how about how efficient is it running in different temps? what is the most efficient temp to run? and how to prepare for a bad running condition such as very hot or very cold?

my 5cents, lol! no 2 cent coins in australia!
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