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-   -   Budget Programmable Tx? (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-car-radio-equipment-201/11249897-budget-programmable-tx.html)

TakeshiSkunk 10-03-2012 01:36 PM

Budget Programmable Tx?
 
I'm looking into building my first 1/10 car (a drift car) and need to secure a radio. I have a fair amount of experience with Mini-Zs, but unfortunately all of my radio equipment for that is proprietary.

Mini-Zs taught me that Tx programming is absolutely essential to really run a car to its fullest, and I'm wondering if the same is true with larger cars? With drifting there are definitely some things I could see myself benefiting from, mainly steering and throttle curves. I'm wondering what the best bang for my buck will be here, what is the least expensive Tx that will do what I want/need it to? I've been looking at the Spektrum radios as a starting point since that's what I use for my helis and planes.

Foxy 10-04-2012 03:40 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
Indeed, proper settings make a huge difference to the way a car drives at every scale.

There are the Flysky units, which are very cheap, specifically the GT3B and GT3C. The GT3B is arguably the better unit depending on who you ask, some people have had some issues with the GT3C.

Then there is something a bit higher quality, again with all the settings you need, but without multiple model memory...

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...-Surface-Radio

TakeshiSkunk 10-04-2012 08:07 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
Thank you! The GT3B looks like it may fit the bill...I'll have to do a bit of reading up on it first just to make sure they don't fall apart or explode or anything haha.

Foxy 10-04-2012 08:18 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
They're fine, I promise. :) Unbelievable for the price, one of the hobby's genuine bargains. Be aware that they have a minor firmware problem that the throttle exponential doesn't work properly, but considering that can be done by most speed controls it's hardly an issue. :)

TakeshiSkunk 10-04-2012 10:09 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
I saw some sources mentioning 20ms of latency on that model...it seems like quite a bit, especially for CS drifting, but I'm not sure what the standard is. Is there any trick to reducing it? I'm not sure if it was on the Tx or Rx end.

Foxy 10-04-2012 11:05 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
20 milliseconds is .02 of a second. Believe me you cannot tell the difference. I've used the GT3, it isn't unresponsive, but it does only cost 40 bucks, does everything, and receivers are only 8 bucks. ;)

TakeshiSkunk 10-04-2012 12:48 PM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
I've played a lot of bemani and fighting games where even 5ms of input lag on a monitor can make high level play completely impossible, so I'm fairly certain I'll be able to notice 20ms. It probably doesn't matter quite as much with something like this compared to a 60fps game that requires inputs to be timed within 3 frames though :P It's just one of those things I've been conditioned to be wary of.

It'll probably be fine and at that price I doubt I'll beat myself up too bad if I end up being unhappy with it...I'm just curious what the latency of some other radios is for the sake of comparison.

phmaximus 10-05-2012 12:10 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
what about a traxxas Tqi? ive seen them for $17 on a auction site

"High 13ms frame rate and near-zero latency for responsive control"
It has all the adjustmenst u will never need, and u dont need the docking base or a iphone to adjust the settings, they just make adjustments very easy and allow u to save multiply setups for different tracks
up to 30 model memory

telemerty is awsome...

phmaximus 10-05-2012 12:12 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
best part about the TQi its cheap and can be upgraded

Foxy 10-05-2012 08:27 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: TakeshiSkunk

I've played a lot of bemani and fighting games where even 5ms of input lag on a monitor can make high level play completely impossible, so I'm fairly certain I'll be able to notice 20ms. It probably doesn't matter quite as much with something like this compared to a 60fps game that requires inputs to be timed within 3 frames though :P It's just one of those things I've been conditioned to be wary of.

It'll probably be fine and at that price I doubt I'll beat myself up too bad if I end up being unhappy with it...I'm just curious what the latency of some other radios is for the sake of comparison.
I'm a pro gamer, or rather I was, I haven't competed for many years (top 3000 in the world at Quake and Unreal Tournament in 2005, and was the guildmaster of a top 300 Euro guild in World of Warcraft from 2009 to 2011, you might have heard of me if you FPS seriously, I used to go by the name foxter42), I'm also 26 years in this hobby for fun and competition. During the day I'm a networks and corporate IT consultant. So you can imagine that I too know a little about refresh rates, bandwidth and input lag.

The problem with screen lag is that it's a constantly moving image. If it delays .005 secs, it's noticeable, because the refresh rate is interrupted or at least falls out of sync. The reason such a small amount of lag plays a role is because it is effectively doubled, or tripled depending how many monitor cycles are parsed during the 5ms glitch (in other words, the faster the monitor, the more noticeable lag would be). If your eyes had 20ms lag, I'd say be careful with RC cars! But since it's just the controller, which is in turn limited by its receiver, which is in turn limited by the BEC of the Speed control, which is in turn limited by the actual speed of the servo, most taking over 180 miliseconds to perform a 60 degree arc, let alone reverse direction, I'd be seriously impressed if you could 'feel' the difference.

A control for a radio control car is not constantly moving, nor is your hand moving that fast. I assure you, that you cannot tell the difference between a radio with 20ms lag and 10ms lag under any conditions, even transitioning chicanes at full speed in electric on road racing at 50mph. Plus the fact that gear backlash in the servo will eat another couple of miliseconds, other things in the car will also play a role. Believe me, I have never been able to tell any difference in the input lag. I could not even tell you which out of the hundreds of radios of varying quality and cost over the years, which was the fastest and which was the slowest, no difference was discernible in real usage situations.

But still, if you are that serious, buy a Futaba 4pk. :) If you have the cash, buying a great radio is not wasted money. :)

TakeshiSkunk 10-05-2012 10:11 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
Totally reasonable response, makes sense to me :) The GT3B is honestly looking pretty good, do all of the Flysky Rxs work with the GT3B?

To be honest I'm really not used to cheaping out or going a budget route with stuff like this, and part of me wants to just shell out for a nice high end modular system. However, I feel like I have enough expensive hobbies at the moment that it'd be worth it to pace myself here, just get something good enough to not hold me back you know? If I'm going to drop a few hundred on a Tx I should probably get a new one for my helis x.x

phmaximus 10-06-2012 03:59 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
Like foxy pointed out, the lag is not noticeable. So wouldn't it make sence to get the controller with the best features?
Don't get fooled by prices, don't base the quality of the product on its price. I always look for features, is it upgradable? Out right price and receiver replacement cost.

For me, because I allready had a iPhone, the Traxxas TQi was a no brainer.
I'm running the 5ch controller with docking base. Its Awsome, it great for any surface vehicle.
It's a normal pistol grip controller with the 3rd CH been controlled by a 2 position thumb switch (can be upgraded to 3 position)
And the 4th and 5th CH are controlled by a 3 position switch (1st position CH4 and CH5 off, 2nd position CH4 on CH5 off, 3rd position CH4 on CH5 on)
I've got it on a....
1/5 car - I'm using the 3rd CH to kill the motor
Crawler 1 - drivng lights CH3, CH4 & CH5 turn on and off rear steering with steering reversing
Crawler 2 - CH3 winch, CH4 soon to be crawling lights, CH5 dig
Monster truck, CH3 reverse, CH4 lights
SCT, CH3 gyro on/off, CH4 lights CH5 roof lights

The possibilitys are endless.
Oh did I mention telemerty? All my cars run on board volt and temp sensors... So handy, with the expander u can plug more temp sensors in to monitor motor, ESC and battery temps at the same time with user programmable audiable warnings.
U can even monitor motor RPM with a sensor, and it can calculate ur speed from gear settings and wheels. But if that's not good enough to measure speed u can expand it with a gps.
The controller can rember up to 30 recivers and the reciver can be linked with 30 controllers, meaning if u had 30 cars and 30 controllers that have been previously linked u could pick up any controller and any car and it will rember the cars settings like EPA, throttle curve, etc. because the settings are stored in the reciver. U can save all those settings on a iPod so u can have multiply setups for different traction conditions. Then when u undock the iPhone, it reverts to the reciver settings unless u saved it as the default setting.

I don't know of any controllers that have the same features... Pistol grip 5ch with telemerty

Do u know how cool it is looking down seeing this?
http://traxxas.com/sites/default/fil...d-select_M.jpg

phmaximus 10-06-2012 04:03 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
Ps it even works with a iPad if u remove parts of the docking base, I'm still trying to find a 2m true 30 pin extension cord that will work

Oh the TQi uses the WIFI from the idevice to update, so u can be sure it's only going to get better with each update, they are releasing new features on most of the updates, so the possibilities ate endless.

TakeshiSkunk 10-08-2012 12:08 PM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
The TQi definitely looks very cool, but since all I'm really looking to do is drift I'm having trouble justifying the cost. If I were looking to get into racing and other applications it'd definitely be a contender, but as it stands I have my hands full racing Mini-Zs and if I were to upgrade my Tx for racing it would make more sense to get something compatible with them. The GT3B is looking like a winner currently at 1/4 the cost.

Foxy: You mentioned some issues with the GT3C, how severe? I have some other things to order from rcmart for my build and noticed that they have the GT3C for $40 but no GT3Bs..I have to admit the C is pretty aesthetically pleasing with all the orange and whatnot :)

Foxy 10-08-2012 12:24 PM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
I hate the Orange! lol. The silver is a better looking radio than the 3b though, that's for sure. Not many people have em yet, so there aren't many reviews, one guy here had problems with his, and I remember at least one person on another forum. I've yet to hear anyone post about how well theirs is treating them but its early days. I'm still planning on getting one myself just to see if they're any good, but I just haven't got around to it yet.

TakeshiSkunk 10-08-2012 06:10 PM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
Hm, it looks like some people have had weird problems with runaway cars and everyone says the power button needs relocated or it just breaks. Seems like it's probably more trouble than it's worth to risk it on the C :(

Foxy 10-09-2012 08:57 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
The B is still good and it isn;t going anywhere by the looks of it.

SyCo_VeNoM 10-09-2012 04:02 PM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
lets see I own 4 SkyFly radios(and like 20 RX's for them) and no real issues outside a trigger on the original GT3 trigger breaking (took me a whole 5 cents to repair(and make 100X stronger), and 10 mins of time) I've had 0 issues. I own the GT2(2 years), GT3(about 3 years), GT3b(a lil under 2 years), and a 6 channel one(forgot its number)

The one I like the most is probably the GT3 but that sucker is a battery hog, and way heavier than the gt3b(which also uses a lot less power). I mainly like the original gt3 due to the menu setup, and sheer amount of programmable buttons on it.

As foxy said the servos have WAY more of a delay than the radio.

TakeshiSkunk 10-10-2012 08:04 AM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
Now I'm sort of back to considering a new DX3 or something just because I can pick one up locally...not many places seem to stock the GT3B at this point and I'm already making like 3 separate orders for this car...I guess I'll just add up all the costs so far and base my decision on that.

Regardless of which I decide to go with I really appreciate all the information, you guys have helped quite a bit!

Edit: Wait! I'm stupid haha, hobbypartz has the GT3B in stock :)

phmaximus 10-10-2012 05:52 PM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
some day ill convince someone to get a TQi... with the base model starting at $13 off ebay, i thought it was very cheap and $76 for a 5ch with reciver aint that bad either...

SyCo_VeNoM 10-15-2012 02:33 PM

RE: Budget Programmable Tx?
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

some day ill convince someone to get a TQi... with the base model starting at $13 off ebay, i thought it was very cheap and $76 for a 5ch with reciver aint that bad either...
+ at least $100 for a(used) iPhone/iPod, and the dock (which tower has listed for $47) (I see em complete for $70ish on ebay)
for me the cost of getting the traxas(with a used ipod, as I as with a quite a few others don't own one) would be the same cost as a new GT3 with 10 receivers, a tank of gas for my car, and 2 giant ass pizzas from the local pizzeria with some change left over... or could get 2 3b's, and at least 15 3 chan RX's for the same.

unless you have(or want) an ipod, and need a 5 chan rx the TQI is not a good value IMO specially when someone asks for a budget radio ;)


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