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  1. #1
    Skaluf's Avatar
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    O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    After listening to the Combat Community, O.S. has restarted production of the well-liked 25FX. Hobbico now as these in stock and they should be available at your favorite hobby retailer.

    Regards,

    Steve Kaluf
    Hobbico
    Steve Kaluf
    Hobbico

  2. #2

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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    GREAT MARKETING STATEGY: "DISCONTINUE" AN ITEM TO CREATE A PANIC, AND THEN OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF THEIR HEART "LISTEN" TO THE COMBAT COMMUNITY BY "RECONTINUING" THE SAME THING WITH A NICE NEW PRICE TAG. GREAT IMPROVEMENT GOING FROM $89 (A LITTLE PRICEY) TO $129 (THE NEW TOWER PRICE - UTTERLY REDICULOUS).

    WAY TO GO O.S. YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE, NO REALLY, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE. DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF YOU BUT I DON'T LIKE BEING JERKED AROUND BY A MANUFACTURER OR A MARKETER SO THEY CAN INFLATE THE PRICE OF A PRODUCT. IT FEELS TOO MUCH LIKE A RIP-OFF. PLEASE SPARE ME THE BS THAT O.S. IS DOING US A BIG FAVOR WITH THIS PROFITTEERING MANUEVER.

    TELL O.S. TO "LISTEN" TO THIS: FOR $129 THEY CAN KEEP MY SHARE OF THE .25 GLOW MARKET. I WILL BE BUYING ANYTHING ELSE RATHER THAN BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF AS THOUGH YOU HAVE A MONOPOLY ON US. ASK THEM WHAT THE JAPANESE EQUIVALENT OF A "REACHAROUND" IS. IF YOU WANT TO TRY SCREWING US IT'S THE LEAST YOU COULD DO.

    MY THEORY: THE REAL REASON O.S. IS PRODUCING THE .25FX AGAIN IS BECAUSE THE FIRST PRICE JACKING PLOY OF REPLACING THE .25FX WITH A STUPIDLY OVERPRICED .25AX, ($149 TOWER PRICE), DIDN'T SELL TOO WELL SO THEY PULLED THE PLUG ON THE FX ALTOGETHER THINKING WE, (COMBAT FLIERS AND MODELERS IN GENERAL), WOULD HAVE NOWHERE ELSE TO TURN AND BUY AXs IN DESPIRATION. WHEN THAT DIDN'T WORK AND THEY COULD SEE THE .25 MARKET SHARE GOING ELSWHERE, THEY "LISTENED" TO THEIR MARKET ANALYZERS, NOT US, AND CAME UP WITH THIS DANDY SCHEME.

    FORGIVE MY PESSIMISM, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THE MANUFACTURER GENUINELY "CARES" ABOUT THE COMBAT COMMUNITY ALL THAT MUCH OR THEY WOULD PRODUCE THE SAME MOTOR THEY WERE PRODUCING 6 MONTHS AGO FOR THE SAME PRICE IT WAS SELLING FOR 6 MONTHS AGO. IT'S THE SAME MOTOR, GIVE ME A BREAK. IF A PRICE INCREASE WAS MANDATED BY THE MARKET AND OUR DOLLAR LOOSING VALUE, (THANK YOUR GOVERNMENT AND THE FEDERAL RESERVE FOR THAT), AT LEAST DO SO GRADUALLY TO GIVE US TIME TO ADJUST. ARE THEY TESTING US TO SEE JUST HOW MUCH HOOK AND LINE WE WILL SWALLOW? BE CAREFULL BITING INTO THIS ONE BOYS, OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

    BEFORE YOU COMBAT GUYS SUCCUMB TO THE PANIC AND RELIEF TACTIC BY RUSHING TO PLUNK DOWN WAY TOO MUCH FOR SOMETHING IN AN EMOTIONAL FEAR RESPONSE, LIKE THEY EXPECT, TRY STANDING YOUR GROUND AND TRUST THE MARKET TO FILL THE GAP WITH A PRODUCT THAT IS COMPETITIVELY PRICED, NOT THIS INFLATED HOGWASH.

    WE NEED TO SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE TO THEM THAT YES, WE NEED A .25 (ACTUALLY WE NEED A .29 TO MEET CURRENT RULES AND THEY WOULD KNOW THAT IF THEY WERE EVER "LISTENING AT ALL IN THE FIRST PLACE) MOTOR FOR COMBAT, BUT WE ARE NOT THEIR CASH COWS TO BE STAMPEDED INTO BUYING WHATEVER THEY CHOOSE TO SELL FOR WHATEVER PRICE THEY THINK WE ARE FOOLISH ENOUGH TO PAY. THAT GOES FOR NON-COMBAT FLIERS ALSO. DON'T LET THEM BEND US OVER LIKE THIS. DIDN'T YOU WORK A LITTLE TOO HARD FOR THAT MONEY TO GIVE IT UP SO EASILY? DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH SELF RESPECT TO STAND YOUR GROUND AGAINST THIS KIND OF MANIPULATION? IF O.S. PROCEEDS DOWN THIS PATH THEY WILL NEVER GET ANOTHER DIME FROM ME. ANYONE ELSE CARE TO TAKE A STAND? OR BE DIVIDED AND FALL.

  3. #3
    Mr Cox's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    They also let the Magnum XLS in on the .25 market and they are appear stronger than the OS, so I say that this certainly came back and bit them...

  4. #4
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Actually, good or bad, I had a lot to do with getting OS to bring back the 25FX but I had NOTHING to do with the price, so don’t blame me. I’m NOT associated with OS in any way, I’m just a modeler. Here is the story…

    When the combat and Q-25 racing communities learned about the AX replacing the FX, there was a lot of β€œrending of clothes and gnashing of teeth”. The SoCal boys had an β€œin” with the Magnum rep and wisely began talking to them about an XLS version of their 25 since the 15 XLS is so good. Magnum began working on it and their new engine is the result.

    You may not know it, but OS is owned by Futaba, and as such it is the chairman of Futaba, Mr. Kirai, that ultimately calls the shots. In March, at our swap meet, we had a highly placed member of Futaba, USA give a presentation on the history of Futaba and RC in general. After the presentation, I pulled him aside and told him about our dilemma with the 25AX not being a suitable engine for combat or racing. He asked me to compose a letter explaining our problem for him to forward to Mr, Kirai. I did so, and spelled out the situation and our requirements in detail. The letter was forwarded to Mr Kirai and after a few more emails, Mr Kirai decided to bring the 25FX back. Up to that time, it WAS discontinued and they had no plans to reintroduce it. The reintroduction of the 25FX is NOT a β€œbait and switch” as has been suggested. Mr. Kirai stated that one of the reasons for the discontinuation of the 25FX is that they could not make money on it at the price that it was then selling for. (My last one cost me $94.95) and he asked whether or not the market would stand a significantly higher price. I wrote that it would probably not sustain a price more that about $115 or so. Remember that Japanese production costs are much higher than those in China.

    It was about that time that the SoCal boys got the first prototype Magnum 25XLS and their test results were excellent. It showed exceptional power and the projected cost was significantly less than that expected of a reintroduced 25FX. When I learned of this, I wrote back to my contact at Futaba/OS and informed him of the Magnum 25XLS test results and suggested that they NOT reintroduce the 25FX since it would be at a cost disadvantage and possibly a performance disadvantage to the 25XLS. Apparently, by this time the wheels had been set in motion and OS did not chose to reverse their decision. I suspect that they have made a nominal production run of these engines and when they are gone, that will be it.

    Sooooo… as Paul Harvey used to say, β€œNow you know the rest of the story”
    Gary James
    AMA CD 68845, NMPRA 15I, RCCA #908

  5. #5

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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Thanks for the inside scoop Gary. So you single handedly convinced O.S. to go back into production on the .25FX? Impressive! It's good to see members of our community being so proactive! And reassuring that O.S. responded at all. Thanks for going to bat on everyones behalf. The RCCA should make you our representative to O.S. and support your efforts as an organization. Please keep us informed.

    I never said anything about this being a "Bait and Switch" game however, that's where they tease you with an attractive offer and jack the price, change the offer etc, once they have you "in the store" so to speak. On the contrary, I think this was a case of drying up the supply of a product that had no comparable replacement on the market so sales of the higher priced .25AX would improve. As you mention, they had no plans to reintroduce the .25FX so I think they were mainly interested in driving up AX sales. And they're probably savvy enough to notice no one else was in the .25 size market giving them any competition to speak of so perhaps thought they had the market cornered.

    Okay I hear you about them saying they couldn't make money on an FX priced at what did you last pay, $95? (I'm dubious however that they can't figure out how to make it feasable at a reasonable price) And they have steadily creeped the price up over the last couple years so we could sort of feel that preassure already, but to just discontinue altogether was stricktly marketing strategy, I think. They could have graduated some price increase and probably gotten away with with it more easily than the shock treatment approach that I am objecting (POLITELY) to.

    Magnum sees a golden opportunity and tools right up with what looks like a .25FX knockoff for $79. (about what the FX used to sell for when it was reasonably priced) I just ordered 2 so I can get firsthand results. If I can buy 2 of them for nearly what 1 name brand O.S. .25 will cost me it's the same no-brainer that keeps droves of people shopping at WalMart and all those little Chinese fingers busy making everything we just can't live without. If I'm going to pay that kind of money for a dinky glow motor,($150 for the .25 AX for example) it sure would be nice if it was going to a product made in the USA!

    I have long been an O.S. supporter and currently own something like 16 or so .25FXs, a dozen of the venerated (discontinued) .15FPs, a variety of other sizes from .46FX, .55AX, to .91FX in my other sport planes. Along side that is a considerable stock of Norvel .25AME (discontinued), and Magnum .15XLS on other combat planes. I'm no stranger to engines being discontinued by manufacturers who go belly up or want to see a better profit margin.

    So I'm just trying to respond positively to the current situation by saying thanks and YES to the return production the of O.S. .25FX, but respectfully NO to the price hike of $129, something like 45%, which makes the engine as unsuitable for combat use as it's AX cousin. I feel for those who feel trapped into paying the going rate to aquire what they may think is the best engine for combat but I will NOT be one of them. You also have to get the most bang for the buck to last in this sport or we would all be strapping a $300 Jett or Nelson type on and emptying our wallets for every contest, and quitting after the first carnage fest. Not enough people flying combat now? Make it more expensive for the basic pieces parts and see if that improves the situation. NOT!

  6. #6
    GSJames's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    ORIGINAL: grasshopper
    So you single handedly convinced O.S. to go back into production on the .25FX?
    Chris, I didn't claim that I single handedly convinced O.S. to go back into production on the 25FX. I just said that after talking in-person with a highly placed Futaba USA rep, that I wrote the letters that explained the needs of the RC Combat flier and that letter was forwarded directly to Mr. Kirai who chose to direct O.S. to make another batch of 25FX's. Other than that, I have no other involvement. Please don't put words in my mouth Chris, I'm just a dirt-ball combat flier like anyone else. I also plan to buy some Magnum 25XLS's instead of more of the O.S. 25FX.

    I agree COMPLETELY with you that manufacturers need to have "field reps" that are in tune with the actual needs and desires of the people who purchase and use their products. Those reps should have direct access to the top executives and not be controlled by the marketing clowns or the bean counters. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen.

    Next time that I'm in PBI on a layover, let's get together for a beer, I'd like to meet you and perhaps we can find a little time to go out flying.
    Gary James
    AMA CD 68845, NMPRA 15I, RCCA #908

  7. #7
    Clean's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Thanks for the inside scoop Gary. So you single handedly convinced O.S. to go back into production on the .25FX? Impressive! It's good to see members of our community being so proactive! And reassuring that O.S. responded at all.

    Well that worked that time, and now look where OS is for it. I guess they were right in thinking that they couldn't continue to produce the 25FX and have it be at a profitable price. They were convinced differently, changed their minds and now they've gotten stung. Don't think they'll be doing that again. Of course, if they provided a dialogue and cost estimation to the community before maybe some middle ground could have been reached. Doesn't look like it now though. There will be some that will say they'll pay for 'Quality' and they'll fork over the bucks, but the majority of the crowd that buys engines and smashes them into other airplanes will go the cheaper, better performing 'inferior quality' route. Just like we were doing when Norvels were 60 bucks, weighed less, put out more power and took less fuel to do so.
    Intentional landings WITH a PBF are not
    the intentional design OF the PBF

  8. #8
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Well the Norvels are back too, with the .25 priced at $95...

  9. #9

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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Gary,

    Please definately do get in touch if you're coming down, that would be great! I have a garage full of combat stuff and plenty of other types to make a day of it with. Sorry, didn't word that single-handed comment very well, appologies. I really do appreciate your efforts to help the cause. Misdirected some of my disgruntledness I think.

    Having a rough time at the moment after a distracted 18 year old rearended me 2 weeks ago on the turnpike going 90+ in his daddy's turbo charged SUV. Totaled my truck and hurt me pretty bad but thank god nothing that won't heal over time, at least to some degree. Reckon It's coming out in unintended forms and wounding innocent bystanders.

    Any idea when you might be headed this way?

  10. #10
    draftman1's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    I wont be buying anymore fx's at the retail price either. among a couple of other reasons not to buy the new AX was the price. Im not gona put a 130.00 engine on a combat plane, other reasons on the AX was the torque/rpm difference, the up front neadle valve and the weight were the other main reasons why the AX wouldnt work. OS wanted to discountinue the FX line totaly, switch all to the AX line. fortunatly I have 17 25 fx's and if I need more, I will get the magnum. sorry OS, too late and too much!
    RCCA #913
    building spads since 12-2007

  11. #11
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Chris, I hope you get well soon and that things start getting better all around for you. I also hope that you get a new truck out of the accident. The little twit was probably "texting" and driving.

    As far as when I'll get a layover in PBI, I usually get my flying schedule by the middle of the previous month, so I'll be able to give you at least 2 weeks notice and possibly as much as 6 weeks notice. I'll be sure to get in touch, it would be fun to go and punch some holes in the sky. BTW, I LOVE your P-47's

    Take care and get well,
    Gary James
    AMA CD 68845, NMPRA 15I, RCCA #908

  12. #12
    Don B.H.'s Avatar
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Sorry to hear about the accident Chris.. Get will soon.

    The Magnum XLS .25 in the P-47 will shake combat up a little.
    I like the SO .25 FX I can afford Magnum XLS .25
    MidAtlanticCombat

  13. #13

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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Thanks guys andSORRY TO EVERYONE that I stooped to "Manufacturer Bashing" in all caps (shouting) that got my first post removed by admin. O.S. has always made high quality engines, my beef was misdirected ranting. I agree with others, Magnum .25XLS= $79 YES - O.S. .25FX=$129 NO, but thanks for trying.

    My frustration is starting to show after many years of promoting and striving to grow combat but still seeing events that have low turnout and local club apathy/resistance. Price hikes on the few items we have come to rely on are also most unwelcome, but life goes on...

  14. #14

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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    I hope this isn't too off topic, but I have a gently used, in the box OS .25FX that I just listed in the market place. I also have a few already attached to airplanes that I may be willing to sell - either just the engine, or the entire plane. PM or email me if you're interested.

  15. #15
    GSJames's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    ORIGINAL: grasshopper

    My frustration is starting to show after many years of promoting and striving to grow combat but still seeing events that have low turnout and local club apathy/resistance.
    Chris: Combat (and Racing) events will ALWAYS have a relatively low turnout. There are only certain personality types that are attracted to Combat. The rest end up being sport fliers and IMAC types. You are doing a GREAT job promoting combat in southern FL. Keep up the great work, but don't expect combat to ever catch on like wildfire. Here in DFW, a metroplex of over 6 Million people and dozens of RC Clubs, we can usually only get a handfull of guys to fly combat.
    Gary James
    AMA CD 68845, NMPRA 15I, RCCA #908

  16. #16

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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!


    ORIGINAL: GSJames


    ORIGINAL: grasshopper

    My frustration is starting to show after many years of promoting and striving to grow combat but still seeing events that have low turnout and local club apathy/resistance.
    Chris: Combat (and Racing) events will ALWAYS have a relatively low turnout. There are only certain personality types that are attracted to ''A REAL MAN'S EVENT''
    . All of the rest end up being sport fliers and IMAC types. You are doing a GREAT job promoting combat in southern FL. Keep up the great work, but don't expect combat to ever catch on like wildfire. Here in DFW, a metroplex of over 6 Million people and dozens of RC Clubs, we can usually only get a handfull of guys to fly combat.

    Ya know, speaking of the personality of combat fliers vs. pattern/IMAC fliers, I kinda always thought of Pattern/IMAC types as being a lot like male figure skaters... You acknowledge that what they do takes lots of skill and practice, but even still, you are never really all too sure about them... Now, Hockey skaters, THEY are like combat fliers.
    Yer funny Gary, REAL funny.....
    Cash

  17. #17
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    It is that kind of mentality that will stear most people away...

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  18. #18
    vertical grimmace's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    I flew combat for many years and was heavily involved with the "founding fathers" so to speak. I was on the rules commitee that authored the original open clas events for adoption into the AMA rulebook. Sort of the golden age.
    I love combat still, but you kinda burn out maintaining a fleet and breaking stuff all the time. That is just part of it. Control line combat is even more destructive. I did that for years before RC. Other than a few, you do not see a lot of long time RC combat guys. One thing is for sure, 2610 led me into flying scale, which is my competitive passion now. I do still race about once or twice a year, and yes, it takes the same mentality for both events. I agree. Never interested in aerobatics
    Let's just say, they will be satisfied with less. " Ming the Merciless


    BUSA Bro # 13

  19. #19
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Chris, sorry to hear about your accident, hope all is well. Combat in our area is at an all time low and things like OS increasing the price of the .25 does not help. But it is not all about the money. I have given planes to many people who I thought would like combat if they tried it but it never seem to help. Most clubs don't like the combat guys because they don't want to give up a few flying days a year to host an event. Don't know what to do.

    Wayne
    www.combatplanesrc.com
    Wayne Voyles
    combatplanesrc.com

  20. #20

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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Hi Chris,
    I hope you are healing up well. Along with Gary, I think you are doing a great job promoting R/C Combat in your area. Keep at it. Local pilots will eventually get sucked in to the most Fun you can have with a model airplane !

    Gary,
    Thanks for your efforts to get the OSFX.25 back in production. I know we all were 'bamboozled' why the best .25 got 'replaced' by the inferior AX???
    When the FX first came out we were very happy with our ($80?) OSFPs/MagGP.25s. FPs got 'replaced' by the lame LA.25. In our $CDNs, the FX started at $160! Eventually the price got down to under $120 and became the recommended engine standard for anyone wanting to join our combat fun. Before the FX got discontinued, we could get an FX here for $100 plus taxes.
    An easy sell for a great engine, to anyone wanting to join us... It was great until???? Ouch ! ! !
    The 'New' OSFX.25 price will put it back up into the $150CDN range ! ! !

    I bought the first two MagXLS.25s to arrive in Canada. The first is unopened, and will be first prize at our 'Onslaught' Nov.21st.[8D]
    #2(Mine!) has 8oz. of bench running through it and is ready to match any new/old OSFXs....
    It has many nice 'refinements' over the FX. Very Nice!. Big Thanks to the 'California' Combat Pilots who worked with Magnum to get this engine for us...[sm=thumbup.gif]
    Oh yeah, $90CDN with taxes for a Great Combat engine?
    Priceless !...For keeping Combat alive around here !

    I love flying (Scale) Combat with my friends, and we have done club meeting talks, demos at close/far fields , etc...
    It is the IMAC Aerobatic type pilots who feel very threatened by US ! ! !
    They are very thin skinned....
    Which is why I must like bugging them so much ! (Combat Pilots, at least, have a sense of humor !)
    Some past 'zings' I have used:
    -The figure skating/hockey is a classic theme. Let them go on about the artistry, blah, blah, and agree how beautiful Katerina Witt and Liz Manley were, the competition, and how hard they worked. Then compare the amount of spectators, hockey players like Eddy Shack, Bobby Orr, etc. packed in to the same rinks !
    -Ask them about the increasing levels of aerobatic 'patterns' to master flying Aerobatics. When they get to the part about the Experts being able to fly 'Unknown Manouvers'... Scratch your head, pause a bit, then say, "That is just like Combat, Without the other planes."
    The list could, and will, get endless !
    My latest: "Aerobatics, not that there is anything wrong with it ."
    I'm working on: For the average cost of an IMAC SA plane, how many WW2 Scale Combat planes could I make?

    Actually, several of our best combat 'die-hards' are or were awesome aerobatic competition pilots! (They just like to have fun !)

    Anyways, to stay on this topic,
    I am a very long time O.S. Fan. Every engine has been great. The Quality Control is awesome.
    But Why?
    Does O.S. need to change things every 5yrs?

    If the O.S.FP.25 had stayed in production, RCCA 2610 would be killer awesome today.
    Just my Opinion.

    I wish O.S. the best of luck with the re-issue of the O.S.FX.25.

    Take care,
    Have fun,
    Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
    Maac 6437
    Unabashed Combat Team


  21. #21

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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Hi All,

    The 'Onslaught over Ontario' looks like it will be (wet)weather postponed till the 28th.[:@]
    But... there is one more week building time !

    To stay on topic...
    Did I mention I love my OSFX's ? I actually name mine:
    -the 'Napier-Sabre' for my Typhoon.
    -the 'Mighty Griffon' for my MkXXI Bubble top Spitfire.
    I cannot seem to 'kill' these planes, and either can my combat foes !
    My OSFX's have always been dependable, great performers, despite the abuse.
    I have two NIB 'FXs' yet to be 'named'.

    I did get these engines at 'reasonable' prices here in Canada.
    The 'new' prices are steeper, but heck, they are OSFXs ! ! !

    I know there will be a few MagXLS.25s being 'broken' in at the Onslaught.
    (They will be subjected to the same abuse!)

    This Post should celebrate the re-issue of the OSFX.25.

    And any MagXLS.25 'claims to fame' should be on another post.

    Back to building...

    Take care,
    Have fun,
    Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
    Maac 6437
    Unabashed Combat Team

  22. #22

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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    I wish I could somehow get my money back for the AX 25. At the time of purchase I was told the FX was no longer available. I shrugged thinking... "cool. I get to have the latest and greatest from O.S. Out the door at 140 bucks I went. Fast forward to the first race day last year. Of 20 pilots, only me and one other guy had the new AX. Those old FX motors ran circles around us. Literally. Weight, RPM. NO COMPARISON. What a joke. Wasted my money. I will new have to buy a new FX to even be half competitive. I don't have the actual RPM numbers handy but they are pathetic. The FX engines are getting 14000 + RPM with the spec 9x6 apc prop.

  23. #23
    GSJames's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    deleted by poster
    Gary James
    AMA CD 68845, NMPRA 15I, RCCA #908

  24. #24
    thailazer's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Good news on the 25FX! I have an 25AX and it is indeed a rather feeble engine, but I also have a 35AX and that is as powerful as any 40 I have ever owned.

    Here's a question for you engine experts: How close to the old FSR design is the FX?
    Tiger Flyer #49

  25. #25
    Crazy4Flight's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. 25FX Back in Production!

    Some of you shop in the wrong places!
    I just paid $60.00 + shipping on a .25FX here in RCU.
    And $70.00 for Great Planes Combat P-51.

    I do have two used .25FX waiting for new planes, sorry not for sale.

    Agreed the .25 FP cheap and light making your plane more agile and limit loss in the worst of wrecks.


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