Shannon.Sanders

i have searched all over the internet for detailed insructions on building a Phencepost "arrow". i have purchased the half kit (wing kit) from my local rc club. They got it from hattrick rc. the Insructions are vague to say the least. i am new to building combat planes. i am not so much concerned about armor at this point in time as i am new to combat flying. does anyone know of a site that has detailed instructions for building a "baseline" Phencepost combat plane. What i am lokoing for are instructions with detailed pictures at least to get me in the air. and maybe a round or two of combat. im not necessarily looking for extreme armor on this thing right now. just something to get me started and durable enough to keep up with some of the others. i can get their opinion on armor and strengthening. IJUSTWANTTOFLY.

i have a spectrum dx7s tx/rx and plan on puting a OS .25 size engine on it. i pretty much have everything but the fuse material. i just dont know where to begin

THANKSGUYS


If anyone is near the Raliegh, North Carolina area and wouldnt mind helping me with this -hands on- let me know

DaneMcGee

The fence post design is fairly straight forward. Pics here: http://www.hattrickrc.com/phencepostpics.html

Fuse pic


If I remember right it is not all that different from the Battleaxe from Treneffrc.com The fencepost uses a plastic electric fence post from Tractor supply for the fuse. The Battleaxe uses twin alum rails.

If you can't get hold of Mike at Hattrick here visit the Treneffrc site and view the battleaxe build instructions.

Also vist the RCCA combat site for tons of info. http://rccombat.com/

Shannon.Sanders

i took a look at that website and it looks pretty close, thanks. As i said i am new to "building" these combat planes. I just want to make sure everything is right. i am a sort of perfectionists when it comes to building. i understand that this thing is going to get beat up badly however i want to make sure it is built right the first time that way i have no troubles building more. plus i want to get others involved in this. and if i dont know how to build it then they cant lean on me.

THANKS GUYS

DaneMcGee

Phenceposts and Battleaxes are hard to mess up. Build light, have a good powerplant with good fuel system, set your cg pretty close and go get um.

Holler back if you have troubles.

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

Shannon,

Examine the the wing profile carefully. It should be labeled left and right. THe wing is nearly symetrical but it is slightly flatter on the bottom. I build the wing with gorrilla glue. Start by placing newspaper or saran wrap on the build table. Gorilla glue is messy. glue wing to gether and hold with masking tape across the seam. Wing should be upright. Put gorilla glue down the spar slot. I wipe the spar with a damp rag to ensure the glue activates. Push the spar into the slot. I have a tool I ground from a butter knife for this. It is a shallow two tine fork to press the spar into wing. The fork is just wider than the spar diameter, the shape prevents the tool from slipping off the spar and peirceing the wing. Place masking tape over the spar slot. Check back often over the next 30 minutes to wipe up gorrilla glue as it foams. When dry, flip over and repeat. The wing should be upside down now. Top spar first, bottom spar last will give some dihederal to the wing due to wing thickness taper. Clean up the gorilla glue with razor blades and sand paper. the stuff is pretty tuff, cleaning up before it sets makes the step easier.

Next I use five minute epoxy to place the strapping along entire leading and trailing edge. I do the trailing edge first. I hold it in place by wrapping bi directional tape around it. You'll have to trim the strapping a little at the wing tips for a good fit.

I do the leading edge latter when the trailing has set. However I glue the EPP leading edge at the same time. I hold the EPP stuff in place with a couple strips of bi directional.

Ailerons are next. I place mine with the flat side up, so the bevel is on bottom and the aileron is flat across the top with the wing. Apply a light dusting of 3M Spary adhesive. This stuff will melt foam so keep about 12" from plane and use light coat. Wait a couple of minutes for it to dry, it will still be tacky. The solvent causes problems if trapped under the tape. This greatly helps to bond tape to foam. Flip the aileron completly up and on top of wing. run a strip of bi di tape down bottom of aileron and trailing edge of wing. Wing should pivot along top edge of trailing edge. In a similar manner spray the top of wing and aileron and place bi di tape. The ailerons might be a little stiff but they will quickly work lose.

Using same technique of light spray with Bi DI tape run a single strip of bi di tape over top and bottom spars. Some omit these strips for a lighter plane.

I harden with 1/8" light play or similar about 1"x 4" area both top and bottom at the rear center of wing. I place either 1/4" wooden down or peice from the spar for rubber band hold down. The hold down should be trough the wood. The wood keeps the rubber bands from crushing the wing. I recess my peice into wing by removing the appropriate depth of foam from wing. I glue with epoxy or gorilla.

On the front I am a little more generous with the wood using 1-1/2" x 5" area in a similar fashion, behind the EPP section.

Now start at rear of wing with the bottom. Using 3m spray adhesive and colored packing tape, coat the bottom of plane. I make a seam in the center , working both left and right half forward at same time. I single strip of colored packing tape down center makes for a neat job. Overlaping the seam starting from the rear helps to shed oil. Club sells this for about $3 a roll. You'll want two opposing colors. Coat top and bottom half in different colors to aid in orientation.

With that finished, I drill the holes for the rubber band hold downs thorugh the wood peices. This are on the wing center left to right and in the center of the wood peice. Insert and glue either 1/4" wood dowels or short peice from spar. make sue this dowel engages wood on both tip and bottom.

Cut a hole starting about 1/2" behind the spar continuing to back of wing for aileron servo. I glue this into place with hot glue.

I add a peice of plastic, 1/16" thick about 6" wide and covering area from front rubber band hold down. I do not know where I got the peice. It replaced the holy white plastic peices shown in above photo. One can apply some heat with a heat gun or blow drier to make it easier to shap into airfoil shape. Try to wrap it from hold down, over wood, over the top of EPP leading edge and then just into botom section. This peice help to prevent rubber band crush. Make it mush wider than wher band are as in a mid air or crash the wing moves and pivots. unless the plastic is at least 5 inches wide the rubber band slip and crush outside the plastic. I do not do this in the back. It does not have the EPP and does not need extra sturcture to prevent crush.

A monokote iron set about 1-1/2 to 2 will shrink the tape and increase the bond to foam. However be advised that the shrink temp and tape melt temp are not very far apart. Practice on some scrap first.

The fuse can be purchased at a Tractor Supply Company. It is electric fence post, hence the Phencepost name. Been a couple years since I bought one there. I remember one has to cut it to shape, but unsure of what to do. The sue peices can be cut from a kitchen cutting board. They are a slightly thinner and softer material than what hattrickrc supplies. You'll need a jig saw or similar.

Fin and horizontal stabilaer are cut from corrugated pastic sign material. Pick up a good looking color at nearly any busy street intersection. Election years are great for getting this material. I'd trace a pattern from the planes at the club field. Bamboo skewers stuck down the corrugation add the necessary stiffness. the elevator hing is formed by removeing the bottom sking from between adjacnet corrugation. Best to look at a plane at the field. Hattrickrc shows one making washer out fo thin would or plstic and using wood screws to attach to fuse. I bought short #2 sheet metal screws and fender washer to do this. www.microfasteners.com Where ever I place a screw and washerthere is a skewer on either side of it, the fender washer is just large enough to contact both skewers.

examine planes at the field for cutout on the servos. I use metal gear HS82MG hitec for this. I've busted some servo arms but never had one fail. Use them for elevator and throttle. The OS 25 FX is the favorite engine but it is worth $140. The new Magnum 25 XLS is so close to the FX. It is $70. AAA size batery in 4.8V is plenty of power. I use 350 mah or better. 350 will give two flights and according to my cycler, a third was possible.

I try to add pictures tommorow.

Talk it up with the other pilots at the field for help. This helps us with the guilt as we smack you down! See you at the field and watch your six!

Scott Happel
Fayetteville RC Club.

Shannon.Sanders

Thanks scott, oh and BTW i know you...i am Scott Bedsole's Son-In-Law. I have joined up with a rc culb in smithfield

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

Yes, I figured that was you but was not sure. Charging the camera batterys for some pictures.

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

some photos may help. red is bottom yellow is top

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

coroplast tail and fin. Shadows are the bamboo skerers. NOte the #2 sheet metal screws and fender washers to attach coroplast. The fender washers just span over the skewers

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

Throttle servo mount and engine mount. Note that the engine mount should be at top of fuselage. I use a peice of plywood to take up space at bottom of fuse. I secure the engine mount with 3 #4 screws into blind nuts at bottom of fuselage.

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

couple shots of rear fuselage. You should cur an opening in top of fuse to insert battery and RX. I covered most of hole with orange tape. place battery as far rear as possible. make sure to place something to prevent the battery from moving forward and crushing the RX. My battery is between the orange tape and the elevator servo. I usually just run a bolt through the fuse to cage the battery.

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

You acheive balance by moving wing back or forward. once balance is found secure the wing mounts with a screw. Velcro between w2ing and the peice of yellow fiberglass used as a saddle. It gives to prevent a break but holds wing from twisting during normal manuvering.

IF flying 72 mhz Berg makes great small RX and are cheap.

Shannon.Sanders

Scott,

So i have worked a little on it in the barn today and here is what i have done. Wing is almost complete. i have put some drywall bidirectional tape on the joints and spars extending the tape out past these joints about 4-5 inches on either side top and bottom. Also i covered the whole wing in Monofilliment tape. Then thinking of puting some "flavorful colored" duct tape overlaping front to back. Tell me if im on the right track here. IT SEEMS TO BE GETTING KIND IF HEAVY. i may decide to only put the mono tape in desired ares to help strengthen it.  ill still need to go to tactor supply to pick up the "phencepost". hopefully ill have it all built minus the tail section before this weekend. ill need to stencil that out from yours or Bills. I have still got to bench test and tune my motor.

By the way. What is a good total, fueled weight that i should shoot for. All i need to happen is me to have too much plane and not enough motor. ill post pictures and keep you updated

DaneMcGee

I use single di reinforcing tape on the leading edge and trailing edge and one strip of 2" bidi over the spar, and a 10" section over the root joint. Bidi can make a wing really heavy really fast. For covering, a low temp film or acrylic packing tape(overlapping starting back to front) is good, however alot of guys are going to the Avery A-6 sign vinyl with good results. I would think that duct tape is too heavy to use as a covering.....tough but heavy.

3lbs before fuel is a good rule of thumb. Almost all my Open B ships are about 3 lbs.....Ive got a couple of Russian wings that will go 2.5 but they are not as durable.

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

Just say no to duct tape, it is too haeavy. The colored packing tape I use is very thin, you can see through it easily. I am not familar with monofilament tape. I am also not familar with drywall tape use. These maybe source of your weight. Like DaneMcGee my birds are 3 lbs.

My tails are 5.5 to 6.5 inches long and 14.5 inches wide. all have a small amout of taper in leading edge and rounded corners. The trailing edge is very shallow taper or just plain straight. They have either 8 or nine corrugation to form the elevator. The 9 or tenth corrugation is the hinge. Make the hing by removeing the skine between two ribs, leave all and both of the ribs. Work the hing a few times to loosen. Skewers, left to right, in the tail strengthen it immensely. Put a skewer on both sides of the elevator hinge line.

See photo for tracing of fin. Crude and I had to use my son's handwriting practice page for paper. The fin is huge and needs to be. These birds must be made to fly right with large fin. THe spot on photo noting the back of fuselage is also the hinge line for the elevator. Bamboo skewers in the vertical help hold the fin upright.

The wing hold downs have some design. They set the incidence of the wing. I think it is important. The hold down on the front of wing is thicker. It is a full 3/8" above the fuselage rather than the 1/4" thickness of the trailing edge. I do not know where this puts the incidence but I would try to duplicate this. Some of us at the field do not use the G10 strip, the flat yellow fiberglass peice in DaneMcGee's picture. No worries if you can not duplicate the peice. Balance the plane by sliding the wing and the two holds downs (as a complete peice) for or aft. Balance point is 2.75" from leading edge about 6" out from each side of center. I make a small indent in the foam to mark the spot.

There should be a large turnout this Sunday at Fayetteville club. Come down for a maiden combat sortie. After we smack you down, question your manhood and otherwise humiliate you and your loved ones; we will offer you cold drinks, sage advice on combat and life along with hollow sympathy for your crushed bird and ego.

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

OH!

Balance is 2.75" behind the leading edge about 6" from either side of center. I push a small dimple into the foam to mark the spot. Make your first balance point nose heavy. These things are very jittery by design, if tail heavy you have be uncontrollable.

Shannon.Sanders

how long is your fuse?

draftman1

were do you get the avery vinyl Dane?

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

My fuselage is 22.5" long

DaneMcGee

Andy, I got it here:

[link=http://www.signwarehouse.com/c-VAVA7001550.html]SignWarehouse[/link]

Lots of colors to choose from.

Mikie 1

Hi Guys, I've been following along from the side-lines. I did try to go to the Hat Trick RC web-site and was told, by my search engine (AVG) - there is no such place as "http://www.hattrickrc.com" . Am I doing something wrong? Has the company closed - not in business any more?


Thanks!! Mikie 1

DaneMcGee

Mike owner of Hattrick RC just announced a few days ago that he was shutting down his site.

Check the forum here for possibly more pics: http://rccombat.com/

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

The Fayetteville RC Club is proud to put the Phencepost back on the web. Not alot on the pages but there is the contact information for Mike and his great designs. The pages will get developed over time. You can obtain copies of the manuals and contact Mike for kits.

The club flys Phenceposts in combat nearly every Sunday. It is great to be associated with Mike and his designs.

[link=http://www.fayettevillercclub.com/id72.html]hattrickrc phencepost[/link]