Gremlin maiden flight problem
10-04-2004, 09:38 AM
#26
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RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
But the motor seems woefully underpowered, even with a 9x4 prop. So I'm planning now on putting a newer motor
in it. My choices seem to be: Thunder Tiger, Magnum, or Norvel.
As far as these go (all in my price range), I am soliciting your input as to:
1) which is most powerful out of the box,
2) which can be modified with easily available pipes to perform better,
3) which has the best longevity
in it. My choices seem to be: Thunder Tiger, Magnum, or Norvel.
As far as these go (all in my price range), I am soliciting your input as to:
1) which is most powerful out of the box,
2) which can be modified with easily available pipes to perform better,
3) which has the best longevity
2) The Norvel and Mag will both benifit from a pipe, the TT probibly will also. After pipe installation, the Norvel is still the most powerful
3) They are all good on logevity, it's hard to wear out an engine.
However, getting the engine to run right in the first place is a bit harder. Norvel's take some very special care and feeding. If you have the plain bearing "Big Mig" norvel, you want to be careful and follow their instructions for break-in. Norvels break in differently from other engine makes, since they are't the conventional ABC construction. You'll also want the speical head wrench for the Norvel head button. Guys who take the time to get a Norvel to run right generally love them, but most of us don't want the headaches that come from not learning enough about those engines.
Magnum engines have carb problems. The carbs leak air around the high and low speed needles. They also tend to send carb parts (or the entire carb). You have to do a bunch of mostly-simple carb fixes to get them to be reliable. I have a webpage of Magnum carb tricks at www.MidAtlanticCombat.com if you want to go that way. Also, the Mag .25 is mostly a paperweight, the .28 is the one you want, it's much more powerful than the .25.
I personally haven't seen much of the TT, but the ones I have seen have been under powered compared to the Mag .28's, Norvels, OS FX's, Webras, etc. Of the three, however, they are reported to be the most reliable and easiest to get running and keep running.
10-15-2004, 02:52 PM
#27
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RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
he heh hee
the madien flight of my gremlin[8D] started out ok ,
threw it upward at 30 deg at full throttle , it slowly climbed then, turned to the right flew nice and very solidly across my field of view
then it disapeared behind some trees [X(], it was too low darn it.[:-]
I tried to turn to the right and bring it back but all I head was a screaming engine whine and then a KRRRRRaaaaack plop mushhh
well it was spring and the field was ozzing wet.. mud packed right into the inside top of the 2 " spinner yuck!! mud every where , but it probably saved the plane--
after the acheological dig in wet spoil to find the bog germlin, I determined the following as contributors to the crash.
airplane combat gremlin engine k&b .20 prop 9X4 full size wing....... 2 inch elevons
the 2 inch elevons were too much
, they helped in the initial climb out but when I throtelled back the wing stalled in a nose up attitude... stalling
adding right alieron put it in more of a spin followed by the whinnning engine scream into the kerplop
I could'nt see it behind those darn ed plane eating trees
. and I should throlled back to zero ..... oh well only the wing was totaled that time [
]
the madien flight of my gremlin[8D] started out ok ,
threw it upward at 30 deg at full throttle , it slowly climbed then, turned to the right flew nice and very solidly across my field of view
then it disapeared behind some trees [X(], it was too low darn it.[:-]
I tried to turn to the right and bring it back but all I head was a screaming engine whine and then a KRRRRRaaaaack plop mushhh
well it was spring and the field was ozzing wet.. mud packed right into the inside top of the 2 " spinner yuck!! mud every where , but it probably saved the plane--
after the acheological dig in wet spoil to find the bog germlin, I determined the following as contributors to the crash.
airplane combat gremlin engine k&b .20 prop 9X4 full size wing....... 2 inch elevons
the 2 inch elevons were too much
, they helped in the initial climb out but when I throtelled back the wing stalled in a nose up attitude... stalling adding right alieron put it in more of a spin followed by the whinnning engine scream into the kerplop
I could'nt see it behind those darn ed plane eating trees
. and I should throlled back to zero ..... oh well only the wing was totaled that time []
11-07-2004, 10:30 PM
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RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
I have a sickle similar to the grem with a 40 la 3lbs [link=http://home.comcast.net/~dlbtkuntzi/sickl.wmv]SICKLE VID[/link]
11-09-2004, 10:32 AM
#29
RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
My best flying Gremlin had a Thunder Tiger 36 on it. Takeoff is just a push forward. Actually had one where after I launched with my right hand, put my hand on the box and hit the elevator stick a little hard by accident. The plane pitched over back towards me as I quickly shoved down elevator in and tried to correct it. The plane stopped with the nose just a little past verticle away from me and shot straight on up. That's about the right amount of power.
I'd probably try the Norvel 25 on one now, or the Magnum. A lighter engine would improve the turning ability of the ship.
A common problem of the combat newbie is to assume just sticking any old engine, one that he wouldn't mind losing, on the ship will be good enough. What you end up with is a ship that if you CAN get it launched, doesn't fly fast enough to be worth it. I've seen a bunch of out of the box electric setups like this, especially the ducted fan ships that just barely fly and land with their batteries depleted in a fraction of what it should. Normally all you'll end up with is a trashed ship, AND that miserable excuse of an engine that you'll stick back in the box and wait for the next time you want to curse yourself with a new idea. A Fox 29 is a good motor for a CL ship that was designed around it, not that their aren't better motors out there to take it's place. A Ringmaster with a Fox 29 on the nose swinging a 9x6 prop at 10,000 rpm is pretty impressive and will fly the plane quite respectively. It's low power by todays standards, but what the ship was intended for. An os 25 LA is usually the modern drop in replacement with a substantial power gain. But for the Gremlin they were designing around one of the later Fox 25 motors or later equivalents. It'll spin that 9x6 quite a bit faster, though nowhere near what the Norvel will do.
The Gremlin design lends itself to quick engine swaps, just make a new mounting plate and mount up any one of the engines suggested above. Then go out and ENJOY the flight. You won't have to worry about launching. You won't have to mind your attitude so much. It's pretty much just mindless flying for enjoyment. The Gremlin should fly as easily as your trainer with more manueverability and speed. Remember to throttle back if it gets ahead of you. Another common mistake of the combat newbie is to set your plane up to where the roll rate is too high and the pitch control too sensitive. If you have to spend 90% of your time keeping track of YOUR airplane, you won't be able to chase down anyone else. The more advanced you become, the more responsive your ship HOWEVER if you ain't up to it, you'll be much more succesfull with a stable ship that you can fly at the periphery and look for your next target.
Now I know that you said you weren't going to try combat right out, but we all know where you are coming from, BULLOCKS!!! You wouldn't have built the ship if you hadn't thought of how purty it would look with streamer hanging not only from directly behind, but out there on the wingtip as well. WE ALL SAID THE SAME THING!!!! MEEKNESS AIN'T WORTH DIDDLY!!! So power your ship appropriatly, get used to flying it full speed as low as you can, safely. Get used to pulling up, rotating inverted, then looping back (Better known as a Cuban 8) as low to the ground as you can. I have planted ships before doing this but it helps during the event. I watched Mickey chasing Grim and his Sickle one day, I was to dang slow and was trying to meet them at the intersections, and was surprised at the number of times Grim mowed the freshly hayed field. Mickey stayed a little higher, he had a larger wingspan and a sudden roll for would leave you cartwheeling which I managed to do.
Go now and sin no more.
Clean
I'd probably try the Norvel 25 on one now, or the Magnum. A lighter engine would improve the turning ability of the ship.
A common problem of the combat newbie is to assume just sticking any old engine, one that he wouldn't mind losing, on the ship will be good enough. What you end up with is a ship that if you CAN get it launched, doesn't fly fast enough to be worth it. I've seen a bunch of out of the box electric setups like this, especially the ducted fan ships that just barely fly and land with their batteries depleted in a fraction of what it should. Normally all you'll end up with is a trashed ship, AND that miserable excuse of an engine that you'll stick back in the box and wait for the next time you want to curse yourself with a new idea. A Fox 29 is a good motor for a CL ship that was designed around it, not that their aren't better motors out there to take it's place. A Ringmaster with a Fox 29 on the nose swinging a 9x6 prop at 10,000 rpm is pretty impressive and will fly the plane quite respectively. It's low power by todays standards, but what the ship was intended for. An os 25 LA is usually the modern drop in replacement with a substantial power gain. But for the Gremlin they were designing around one of the later Fox 25 motors or later equivalents. It'll spin that 9x6 quite a bit faster, though nowhere near what the Norvel will do.
The Gremlin design lends itself to quick engine swaps, just make a new mounting plate and mount up any one of the engines suggested above. Then go out and ENJOY the flight. You won't have to worry about launching. You won't have to mind your attitude so much. It's pretty much just mindless flying for enjoyment. The Gremlin should fly as easily as your trainer with more manueverability and speed. Remember to throttle back if it gets ahead of you. Another common mistake of the combat newbie is to set your plane up to where the roll rate is too high and the pitch control too sensitive. If you have to spend 90% of your time keeping track of YOUR airplane, you won't be able to chase down anyone else. The more advanced you become, the more responsive your ship HOWEVER if you ain't up to it, you'll be much more succesfull with a stable ship that you can fly at the periphery and look for your next target.
Now I know that you said you weren't going to try combat right out, but we all know where you are coming from, BULLOCKS!!! You wouldn't have built the ship if you hadn't thought of how purty it would look with streamer hanging not only from directly behind, but out there on the wingtip as well. WE ALL SAID THE SAME THING!!!! MEEKNESS AIN'T WORTH DIDDLY!!! So power your ship appropriatly, get used to flying it full speed as low as you can, safely. Get used to pulling up, rotating inverted, then looping back (Better known as a Cuban 8) as low to the ground as you can. I have planted ships before doing this but it helps during the event. I watched Mickey chasing Grim and his Sickle one day, I was to dang slow and was trying to meet them at the intersections, and was surprised at the number of times Grim mowed the freshly hayed field. Mickey stayed a little higher, he had a larger wingspan and a sudden roll for would leave you cartwheeling which I managed to do.
Go now and sin no more.
Clean
11-10-2004, 10:37 PM
#30
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RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
If I was going to combat that puppy, I'd put a Norvel with a mousse can on it. Cheap and powerful. But for sport and all out speed, I still like the OS.32 with a performance muffler. Man, that thing will scoot.
Cajun[8D]
Cajun[8D]
11-11-2004, 02:34 PM
#31
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RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
Well, I've found a .32 SX with Macs muffler on EBay and I'm going to build an engine mount and rebalance
it in the next couple of days (the weather is surprisingly good right now).
I think I should probably upsize the gas tank though (from 4 to 6 oz) given the fuel consumption
of the .32 SX (which has to be more than the Fox 29). Do you think I can get five minutes
from a 6 oz tank (or more?).
it in the next couple of days (the weather is surprisingly good right now).
I think I should probably upsize the gas tank though (from 4 to 6 oz) given the fuel consumption
of the .32 SX (which has to be more than the Fox 29). Do you think I can get five minutes
from a 6 oz tank (or more?).
11-12-2004, 09:18 AM
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RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
I ran an OS .32F on a mousse can during a C-class combat event, using a 6oz tank and had no problems making time, so you should be fine. I wasn't turning it up to an extreme RPM, but the plane still moved out nicely.
11-12-2004, 05:07 PM
#34
RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
I'm suprised that no one mentioned metal gear servo's. My gremlin with a Mag .46, and a wing span of 36" will fly out of my hand at a 30 deg tilt.
I lawn darted it twice due to elevator flutter and stripped gears on the servo's. Went to metal gear servos and now I dont think twice about a full throttle dive with full right or left elevator. Make sure there is on slop in the horns and pushrods.
Even with the short wing span it still has a good glide pattern.
Larry
I lawn darted it twice due to elevator flutter and stripped gears on the servo's. Went to metal gear servos and now I dont think twice about a full throttle dive with full right or left elevator. Make sure there is on slop in the horns and pushrods.
Even with the short wing span it still has a good glide pattern.
Larry
03-21-2005, 02:23 PM
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RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
03-30-2005, 07:49 PM
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RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
i have flown the Sickle for three years and love the beast. I think the OS25Fx is an excellent choice, starting easy and powerfull enough for the plane, but stay with the 9x4 or 9x5 at most. The OS.32Sx should be an absolute great choice too, power and not too heavy. My Sickle flies easily from the hand, no special launch required. Take extra Prozac and clean shorts if you go with the .36 and above. what a rush that will be.
05-25-2005, 08:49 AM
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RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
I found this photo and scanned it. It is the first official Gremlin combat contest held at the Central Mass field near Worcester MA. circa 1991.
The fliers were also members of the HTA which we had to say stood for HIGH TECH AIRFORCE. We all worked for DEC at the time and had our own "Worldwide Notes-file network forum". We also ran a DECRCM club.
The "A" had another meaning which we could not PC say in print - in those days :-)
L-R; Charlie Watt, Bill, Steve Smith, Dan Weier, Dan Miner, Dan Snow, Lamar, Evil-Eric, Jim Cavanagh, Jim Reith and George Higgins.
The wing spans vary a bit due to combat damage. We also allowed 44-48" as the stock combat spec.
Regards,
Eric.
The fliers were also members of the HTA which we had to say stood for HIGH TECH AIRFORCE. We all worked for DEC at the time and had our own "Worldwide Notes-file network forum". We also ran a DECRCM club.
The "A" had another meaning which we could not PC say in print - in those days :-)
L-R; Charlie Watt, Bill, Steve Smith, Dan Weier, Dan Miner, Dan Snow, Lamar, Evil-Eric, Jim Cavanagh, Jim Reith and George Higgins.
The wing spans vary a bit due to combat damage. We also allowed 44-48" as the stock combat spec.
Regards,
Eric.
08-10-2005, 07:08 PM
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RE: Gremlin maiden flight problem
That picture brings back fond memories. 
Dan Miner 5th from left was a neighbor when I was a kid (many moons ago) and got me interested in RC. He also got me my first gremlin which I am in the process of getting flying again. Needs a new engine the first one was an old McCoy .35 that I got in a box of goodies from an old modeler. Flew great with a .35 so that is what will go back on it.
Dan told me stories of people flying them with .60's and twin push pull .25's also of a person that had twin fuselages separated by another section of wing and powdered by twin .25's.
Dan Miner 5th from left was a neighbor when I was a kid (many moons ago) and got me interested in RC. He also got me my first gremlin which I am in the process of getting flying again. Needs a new engine the first one was an old McCoy .35 that I got in a box of goodies from an old modeler. Flew great with a .35 so that is what will go back on it. Dan told me stories of people flying them with .60's and twin push pull .25's also of a person that had twin fuselages separated by another section of wing and powdered by twin .25's.
