aimmaintenance

I've been thinkin about buying a "slasher". How does that style of plane fly? Are they touchy? Is there any hands off stabilty. Do they float in to land? I guess what I'm curios about is the comparison of a full blown combat ship versus an ultra stick or something. I'm an OK pilot, but just that,, OK. I don't wanna spend the money and end up hating the plane because every flight is nerve wracking experience. I realize nobody can tell me wether or not I'll like the plane but I'm just trying to get a feel for how they fly. I know they turn on a dime, and manuever like nothing else, but can you slow them down and fly them like a trainer? (so to speak) I was all set to buy one until a friend of mine got his 48" span spad down to 4.lb 2.5oz. The reason I never liked spads was due to the fact that I never could build one less than 6.lbs. Now that I see how to build a LIGHT spad I'm trying to decide which way to go. Spad versus Slasher. How are the wings on the Slasher type planes. The foamies I've been building fly great but durability wise leave alot to be desired. Thats why I'm thinking about going back to the spad idea. Those things are TOUGH!
Are the slasher type planes just as tough? As you can tell, I've never even seen one in real life.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I think alot depends on what your objectives are. If you want to improve your odds for winning a match, there is no substitute for wing span. If you want to fly a slightly slower and more controlled version of combat, go with .15s for power and see how you like that action. I have seen club style combat with 3.5 to 6 pound, .25-.40 powered spads flopping around out there and 90% of the streamer picks are just blind luck, random chance. Half of the time the pilots don't even see the transfer right away. The action is too fast and it eats up too much ground for there to be very much following through the manuevers. It is more like watching demolition derby. Those planes are simple and cheap to build, but when it comes to combat, those planes give back about what you worked and paid for.

Rflyin

My Feedback: (6)

Cheack out www.teamseaholm.com. Thease are proven high performace designs that can be set up as gentle as a baby or as wild as you can handle. I'll be at your contest sunday and I'll have a similer type plane you can try.

Rick Wise

rcfury

My Feedback: (5)

I have the Ripper the .15 size version of the Slasher and its a fairly strong model. The wing of course is just a foam core which is strong, and depending on the covering you use it could be almost bulletproof. My plane the way i have it set up needs a kinda faster speed for landing etc. They do float fairly good since the wings are very big vs the weight of the model a.k.a wing loading.

AirScharnell

I agree the Avengers are a very GOOD platform too fly in competion.
I have a few of them the 9 series and some old 8 series that are still flying.

My son tried a slasher in the begining and it took some abuse. ie: midairs and dirt naps.

The slasher has it weak points like all combat planes do.
But for a beginner bird it will work.

As before stated, are you going too battle it out at meets or just fly it for something different.
And YES the slasher will float........

Frank

aimmaintenance

I take it that spads aren't a good choice for competition. Is it simply a wingspan issue, or is it weight also? I think I could strengthin my foam wing up easy enough with fiberglass etc, but I can't figure out how to build a strong fuse without it weighing a ton. That's why I was thinking about buying a slasher.
I don't know how far into this combat I'll go. Right now it's just a club thing but later on I may try get into some action with the pros. I wanna get a plane that would compete against the pros and see how I like it at a club level competition and then decide how far to go. Someday soon I would like to go and just watch a real competition to see the level of skill I'll need. My hunch is that I'm a long ways from the ability I need. Half my problem right now is time. I'm a self employed contractor and the spring and early summer is a hellish period for me. I never usually get much stick time in until august, sept, oct.

Montague

Well, SPADs are pretty much extinct in the "top level" combat competitions. They are fragile compared to a well designed foam plane, SPADs are often heavy, and the wingspans of the top planes are 64-72", anything shorter is making your life harder.

The Slasher can fly slow, every good combat plane can. A first rate combat plane has a wingloading in the 12oz/sqft range or lighter. That's lighter than a typical trainer, so they actually float better than just about anything out there. (turning radius is mostly a function of wingarea. Other factors matter, but wingloading is critical).

Btw, keep in mind that most combat planes aren't using the fragile white foam you see in sport planes and coolers and such. We are using higher density stuff, 25 or 40psi rated, or using EPP which bouces. It's nothing like the white foam.

I have only seen the Slasher a couple of times, but it seemed fly ok. I have a lot more experience flying against the Ripper in SSC class, where it's an ok plane, holds it's own, but is out-performed by some of the better designs.

jsn

My Feedback: (8)

me and a few guy's do some club style combat. myself and one other fly slashers, good all around sport/combat plane IMHO.

How does that style of plane fly?
it fly's great for combat and sport type flying... Knife edge sucks though

Are they touchy?
it's not touchy at all... feed in enough elevator it will snap out on ya but so will any other plane.

Is there any hands off stability?
once trimmed it will fly hands off no problem... kinda hard to get kill's hands off though

Do they float in to land?
more than I like! nice low and slow approach, kill power at around 75-100 yards out and the damn thing still floats past me sometimes.

Spad versus Slasher?
my 4lb spad Debut flew like a BRICK compared to my slasher, it's still collecting dust somewhere.

Are the slasher type planes just as tough?
YES... mine has seen 3 mid-air's so far, the Balsa combat plane I hit BLEW APART on impact... the small hole in my wing required a piece of tape to fix it once I dug out the balsa that had stuck in the foam the last mid-air was a good one... me and rick the only 2 up and some how we managed to put our slasher's nose to nose knocked my fuel tank loose, shattered the carb and of course the prop... landed just fine Rick blew his Aileron and throttle servo gear's and ended up nosing in from around 200FT WFO... the servos, fuel tank,dented wing tip,striped muffler bolt and prop of course were the only damage.


John

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

Check out my thread,,, in this RC combat forum , Team seaholm 1072 avengers etc etc,,, we purchased the TeamSeaholm.com avengers and hae had a blast and they are proven winners and the support is excellent, if you have any question just post on A.J.'s forum on the Team website and it will be answered with in 24 hours,,,,

rrh

http://spadworld.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9543

I fly this SPAD against those foamers and it is quite competitive, I even win a meet from time to time. If my flying skills were better, I would be winning more often.

Since I posted this build thread, I have made a number of improvements that I can pass on if you are interested.

rrh

Capn America

My Feedback: (3)

I like it! I did not fare to badly with the modified devastator but im looking for an upgrade.

Montague

Cool looking plane. What are the tip and root chords?

I noticed you don't have a mousse can installed. Do you guys normally not use cans?

How does it stand up to prop cuts? One of the things I like about foam is that I can (and have) taken prop cuts in the wing, including that go clear through the wing, and continued to fly the round. A little tape afterwards, and it's as good as new (as long as the prop doesn't hit the spar. Get the spar, and it's coming down). I've seen coro wings rip along the flutes when prop cut. Of course, if you have some tape or something acting as a rip-stop, that might fix that problem? I've seen foam wings explode from prop cuts because they were covered in a heat-shrink covering rather than tape or rip-stop.

rrh

Thanks, Kirk. That wing is almost an exact copy of one of Lee's Cobra's. Since then I have narrowed up the root chord to around 9" and may go a little less just so I have a little more room to change my CG to suit conditions and my reflexes that day It's about 5.5" on the tip. I put some big winglets on it in the field yesterday as it was waging pretty bad and REALLy bad when I had a streamer out there. Made a huge difference and I plan on doing a lot more with winglets.

For that pic we were doing some testing for a club plane with no cans or pipes. Currently I have an OSFX on it with a kombat kan and it hauls!!

I tape a FG rod inside the LE with bi-di. Props usually break when they hit the rod or the maple spar I use. They do cut right through if they don't hit the rod or the spar but haven't had any big rips that I could'nt either tape up or ignore.

rrh

Montague

Sounds good.

I've had props cut through fiberglass rods a few times. Rather annoying when it happens. (the prop breaks too, but it doesn't matter much at that point). What thickness are you using? I use 1/8" for spars in my foam wings.

You coming out to Nats?

rrh

I'm using 1/8" FG also but maybe the combo of the rod and the bi-di and the coro makes it just durable enough to bounce the props off so far, knock on wood

When I started using LE rods I was glueing them in but that didn't work as well. Now when I go wing to wing the LE just flexes back a bit then bounces back out to shape. The tape and rod combo spreads the impact along the LE and I rarely break the spar.

Not going to Nats, Paris was my big trip for this year again. I've got enough people bugging me to go I just might have to start working towards going next year.

rrh

aimmaintenance

What do the winglets do? I'm assuming your talking about vertical fins attached to the end of the wing tips.

rrh

You are correct. With the looong wing you need an appropriate amount of verticle surface for the lateral stability. I was not getting enough from the one centered on the fuse. The plane would wag (put your arms straight out like a wing and rotate your torso back & forth = wag in my vocabulary) from time to time and with a streamer on the wing tip it became uncontrolable. Adding the tip verts made that all go away as well as adding to the overall stability and flyability of the bird.

rrh

Montague

Winglets can have several effects that make them worth considering on some designs.

They increase vertical area. If the plane has a swept wing or a fairly far forward CG, this can increase stability. If the plane's CG is pretty far back, and/or the wing has a straight LE, then the wingtips aren't very far back, and this effect is lessened, but still non-0. This, of course, varies with the shape of the winglet. The more area closer to the wing TE and the less area towards the LE increases the stability effects. On most conventional planes, the stability effects are pretty small, but on flying wings, it tends to be a larger effect

They also affect the wing tip vortex. This can do a couple of things. One is that it can reduce or eliminate aileron flutter. I had winglets on my prior B plane for just this reason, that plane had a really bad aileron flutter problem with out the winglets, but with them, the flutter went away totally. Messing with the vortex can also delay the tip stall by creating smoother air at the wing tips. The result can be a tighter turn.

The downside to winglets is an increase in drag and weight and hassle. I'm not using them on my current B plane because I don't think the plane needs them, and the hassle makes it not worth while right now. I might play with some later on to see if there is an increase in turning, but I suspect on my current deisgn the drop in speed will be larger than the increase in turning ability.

Winglet shape and size is important as well, depending on what you're looking for. For better turning, I found having about 2" above the top of the wing and 1" below the bottom, at the wing TE, with about half that at the wing high point seemed to work well.

Winglets will sometimes snag a streamer that would have otherwise slid off the wing tip. This is espeically noticeable with forestry tape. A cut here or there is good, but having a streamer stuck right at the wingtip can be a real hassle.

And winglets will add a bit of strength to the wingtip, so the wing holds it's shape better in a glancing blow mid-air or dirtnap where the plane hits wing-tip first, such as a cartwheel. On the other hand, having winglet get torn off is a hassle, and sometimes increases damage to the wing, depending.

Capn America

My Feedback: (3)

I added them to the tips of my devastator and was surprised how much it helped reduce the snap roll under heavy elevator throw. Besides, it lookes cool...

aimmaintenance

Is there some kind of aerodynamic formula for the size of these winglets. For example 10% of wing area. Or do you just kinda add what looks cool.
One question I have is with a short coupled plane (short fuse length) what does that do to the aerodynamic formula for total area for tail feathers? Does it stay the same? I would guess that it should increase somewhat to provide yaw stability.
Another question I have is why do I keep reading that everyone uses either packing tape or nylon to cover their wings instead of fiberglass? Is fiberglass to brittle? To expensive?

Montague

Fiberglass is too brittle, too heavy, and too much trouble. You want the wing of a combat plane to be able to flex a bit to absorb impact. Fiberglass covered foam won't flex, instead the glass cloth will buckle and pull off the foam.

No forumula for winglets, really, just make sure they extend far enough up and down, and go all the way to the TE or slightly beyond. Personally, I'd suggest not thinking of them as part of your rudder area. They will add some, but not that much.

If you really wanted, you could calculate the tail volume added by the winglets. Just calculate it the same way you would for the vertical stab. Find where the average area is, measure the distance back from the 25% MAC point of the wing, and multiply.

But keep in mind that the actual aerodynamics are very complicated, so you're best off just doing cut-and-try and find something you like.

aimmaintenance

Well I hate to do a turn around an ya but I guess I'm going with an Avenger from Seaholm. No real big reason other than a guy at the club said he was ordering one for himself and was gonna get the 3 for $180 deal and I said he could put me down for one. Kinda excited to see it now. I've done some reading on it and it sounds kinda tricky to set up CG and all but once dialed in it's supposed to be a nice flyer.
I also found a new covering material (new to me at least). Perma wrap House wrap, I did a test with the stuff and was amazed. I took a piece of foam 3/4" X 5 1/2" X 12" it weighed .8 oz. I then covered with a 12" X 12" piece of this wrap spray glued on and it weighed 1.2 oz. That's .4 oz per sq. foot. The same size piece of bare foam broke in half at approx 3" of bend. The wrapped piece literally was bent clear around in a U till it touched itself and never broke. several times I might add. The covering never came loose and when I peeled the covering off it still took pink with it. The wrap is a bi directional plastic type stuff that even when I cut it I couldn't rip it in half. It's not as smooth as tape and you will have to paint it unless you want an all white plane but I think the new avenger may get covered with this stuff.

cwick1989

I dont know if anyone has told you this or not (Im in a hurry to get out thte door and fly b4 it get any later) BUt Ive got both a spad and a slasher now... I only fly the slasher when my dad comes out and brings his with him Its just not a very fun flier when its just you but a spad though I take atleast one of those to the field with me at all times

The Internet Killer

My Avengers have a bit of flavor.

Lemon and/or Lime ,


No efforts were made to aquire decals anywhere but at home!!!

Now all I need to do is build a launcher, get some practice and see if the
round tank has solved the fuel foaming problem (less contact area).

Montague

You shouldn't need a launcher for those Avengers. For the first flight, you might want to get someone else to throw it for you. After that, with a little practice, you can toss them yourself.