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  1. #1
    juanjulian's Avatar
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    HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    Have tried with no results convincing fellow members at my club to organize a SSC combat event.

    Convince a few and bought 6 batle axe of which 2 were build and claimed by their ownerts that the flight was terrible demoralizing the few inertia there was for combat event.

    Discovered later that the elevator servo with mounting tape and plastics zips is not enough to hold the servo in place.

    I bought 2 tufflight panther and build both having some batle experience with only 2 persons.(boring)

    At my club they organize pattern and Imac events but combats seems like a Tabu. I think is a interesting and exiting new event that can atract more people since the planes are more afordable.

    Plese give ideas?

    Have to combat planes eating dust.

    Cheers,


    Juan

  2. #2
    Clean's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    But it ain't for everybody Juan. Even with good survivability there ends up being rebuild time and broken equipment. That's hard for some folks. Meanwhile, you could look into the small foamy combat. There usually is less damage of expensive parts although you could loose 50 cents of foam. And if you have a good size facility you can take it indoors in winter. With enough interest there you might spur the next level up. But don't be surprised even with handing out ready to fight birds that they get used once or twice and then let go.
    Intentional landings WITH a PBF are not
    the intentional design OF the PBF

  3. #3
    draftman1's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    "getting People into Combat" hmmm thats the question of the decade. well theres alot of reasons, Clean touch on some major ones. combat isnt for everyone, thats for sure but until you try it, how would they know. The most important thing is to have ready availiable, cheap, easy to fix and good flying planes. most people do not have the stomach to watch there $100.00 airframe end up in a pile of tooth picks. there are some great "combat" planes out there to purchase but the best thing to get going is SPADS. simple plastic airplane design. they are durable, fast to build and cheap, usually less than $20 for an airframe. they can be found at www.spadtothebone.com

    things to help promote it, here in CA, we have done all of these, some great results, some not so great, some work better in other areas.
    getting a friend to fly combat with you in front of others, a demo is always fun
    having build party, get the guys building a common plane, show them how easy and cheap it is to build
    have a couple of planes, reciever ready so the guys can try it, assure them that your not gona get mad if they wreck it
    take a trip with some club members to see a combat contest

    check out your club members, hunt down the speed junkies, pylon racers, the daring, there usualy your best pilots. most scale, 3d and other purist will not do combat, period!
    the guys must be willing to have a mid air, laugh about it and "hi five" the guy they had a mid air with.
    the competition also grabs the guys, sure pylon racing is fun but your just going around in circles, the pursuit and addrenalin rush is what we look for.
    it will take alot of hard work to get it going but you will find some guys that this is there thing. Combat has also gotten a bad rap. most people think that all we want to do is destroy planes, thats so untrue, we dont try for it at all, it just happens sometimes. Also alot of guys dont think that there good enough or are afraid to fly with a bunch of others in the same area. and then some guys just want to hover, fly in circles, pattern fly or any of the other things you do in RC and they are totaly happy, you wont win them over either.

    Clean has the best suggestion, get some foam planes and start from there. have fun and dont give up!
    RCCA #913
    building spads since 12-2007

  4. #4
    Rafael23cc's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?


    ORIGINAL: juanjulian
    Convince a few and bought 6 batle axe of which 2 were build and claimed by their ownerts that the flight was terrible demoralizing the few inertia there was for combat event.

    Discovered later that the elevator servo with mounting tape and plastics zips is not enough to hold the servo in place.
    First impressions are hard to erase. We had a group of guys at my field that wanted to try combat. We started dabbing with foam airplanes, and then with SPADs. Finally we attended a Combat event, and a few months later we hosted our own combat event. There were only a few people hooked, but that kept the sky filled for most of the day on normal weekends too. Then combat died at our field when 3 out of 4 people doing it moved away. I miss those days. I concentrate on my heli skills now.

    Adrenaline junkies are your best bet for combat fliers. Pattern followers may not be suitable for the sport.

    Mr.Clean: Hello from Junction City, KS.

    Rafael
    Keep your eyes on the sky but your feet on the ground!
    Team Heliproz.com / AMA # 8109

  5. #5
    Clean's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    Ahhh Junk town. The last combat event I truly enjoyed. Got home and to work the next Monday and got laid off ending my combat Carrier. And I had such a good time that day too.

    Sadness, true sadness.

    I've got a kid in my local club that wants to play whenever I get to the field, problem is I can never get there.
    Intentional landings WITH a PBF are not
    the intentional design OF the PBF

  6. #6
    Rafael23cc's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?


    ORIGINAL: Clean

    Ahhh Junk town. The last combat event I truly enjoyed. Got home and to work the next Monday and got laid off ending my combat Carrier. And I had such a good time that day too.

    Sadness, true sadness.

    I've got a kid in my local club that wants to play whenever I get to the field, problem is I can never get there.

    I did not know that. I took a gamble when I typed the previous message and It turned out I was correct. Sad to hear about your job, but that was a long time ago.

    See you around, don't want to hijack this thread.

    Rafael
    Keep your eyes on the sky but your feet on the ground!
    Team Heliproz.com / AMA # 8109

  7. #7
    OzMo's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    Silly answers
    Punch 'em in the nose...that generally starts a fight.
    Fly your combat plane into their tail feathers then tell 'em you thought they had a streamer.
    Fly the pattern with your combat plane, with streamer on, cleaner than they fly...that will start a fight too!

    Just kidding of course. Best bet is keep it cheap and super simple. Going to cheap electric foamies is really a good idea.
    Yes dear, I did glue my hand to the airplane to keep from dropping it.

  8. #8
    Flyin Beagle's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    I just moved to Lexington KY this spring and have always been interested in combat. No one in my old club flew combat so I had never seen it in person. My new club has a group of 8 or 10 guys who fly thier own style of combat using parkzone strykers. Tthey dont use streamers, they just try to knock each other out of the air. After my first day seeing this I was hooked and immediately went and bought my own plane to join in the fun. The planes are not cheap up front, about $120, but they are extremely duarable and replacement parts are very cheap only costing about $20 for an entire fuselage. Very rarely is one of the planes damaged to the point that the fuse needs to be replaced most of the time it just takes a little glue. Now I am just waiting to get my batteries in from hobbyking and I will be joining in the fun.

    The point of all of this being that witnessing first hand a combat session got me hooked.
    \"My biggest fear in this hobby is that my wife will one day sell my toys for what I told her I paid for them.\"

  9. #9

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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    We started with spads and 40 sized trainer leftovers. Everyone at our club had an old 40 from a trainer lying around and built a spad to strap it on and play. We raced them, pylonish, tied on streamers etc and just had a lot of fun with them. When we moved to an event format, we had over 20 pilots signed up for the first event. Sadly after that we tried to move it to a b class with 25's and lost all but 5. It was a lot of fun as a hooligan event but seemed to loose some participation as the rules were added. Most around here did not have 15 or 25's lying around and did not make the switch to sanctioned classes. The best thing to do is go out and have fun with it, others may start to show interest if it looks fun. Have an extra lying around and talk someone into flying it so you can chase it, they will probably turn on you and start to pursue and then you have a shot at them.

    Good luck

  10. #10

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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    back in the '80s there was an airframe from us aircore( can't remember the name) it was a .40 size and it was made of corrugated plastic that you used contact cement to hold everthing together. we called it the rubber airplane and in combat it was awesome, we had midairs and the worse that happened was a prop cut or a crash. in which case if you were on grassitwas no big thing. one tough bird.

  11. #11
    combatpigg's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    There is obviously going to be more work involved with combat than with keeping a sport plane flyable.
    For the typical man of today who spends half his free time lying on a couch watching TV or surfing the internet, just keeping a sport plane going is almost too much effort.
    So, the guys who are really "cut out" to be combat flyers are going to be "few and far between".
    The guys who claim they don't have enough free time are full of you know what.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  12. #12

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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    back in the '80s we did the combat thing and the rules at the time were for 60 foot streamers, ours were 3 feet long. we used plastic props because they held up better on an impact. we put servos on each alieron and each elevator for maximum effect. those corrugated plastic planes we flewwere very light, no woodexcept for engine/radio rails.but not manypeople then and now like combat, they would rather just go up and down the flightline and maybe some loops. combat is work. i quit flying for r/c racingas there is lots ofof guys doing that.i only fly heli's now as at my age that's enough of a challenge.

  13. #13
    it26b's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    Juanjulian, I introduced combat to our club last year and this year we have 16 signed up but only 6 on average show up for our weekly sessions. I designed a very cheap combat plane set-up and keep the rules simple. Throphies for 1st 2nd,and 3rd as well as weekly high score winner plaque keeps the real competitors interested. Having our club sponsorship helps as well. Our set-up is SU-26 and EXTRA profile foamies ($10.50 bought in bulk) and electrics from HobbyKing at $35. The electrics are reuseable if plane is damaged beyond repair. Planes are quick to build,usually 4-5 hours. The planes fly at around 45-50 mph and very manuavorable. The thrust to weight ratio is near 2:1. With only 4 catagories for points,scoring is easy and fast. No judges and each competitor keeps his/her own score with verification. We fly 12 sessions per year with 5 heats per session. That's 5 hours of combat flying and a plane is totaled on average every 50 minutes. Not that bad and usually they are repairable at the field in 5-10 minutes. We use 15 foot streamers on 5 foot cotton leaders. All these things add up to a sucessful combat event that endours. But even then not all will stay at it and attendance can be sketchy except for the real hardcore competitors. Hope this helps.

    NOTE: We are on YouTube,search "McMAC RC Combat"

    it26b
    McMAC CD/VP

  14. #14
    mclina's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    Our club uses SPAD Derelicts. Every couple of years one of our guys will secure a load of 2mil coro and downspout, and they will have a building party. They put together a couple dozen planes, and offer to sell them for the cost of materials.

    We used to have pretty regular combat rounds on Sunday afternoons, but nowadays it's really just at the club Fun Flys and picnics that we all get in a round or two.
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  15. #15
    Clean's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    Had a pretty good day yesterday, been getting one of the guys at my club into combat. Gave him a HOR last year, he stuck a 32 on it and I've been trying to keep up with him with my 25 combat ships. But it works out pretty well. Last couple weekends we've been doing combat at the field. It hasn't caught on to other folks because there's never anyone out there when we do it BUT we have a club meeting this next weekend and I hope someone else gets interested. Our field is also right up against the highway so often, like yesterday, there will be someone driving by that stops and watches a round. Last night we heard a car turn onto the gravel and held off to let them pass then figured out they were watching so we got back into it. After we landed they were clapping and yelling, pretty cool and I have to say this guy is pretty hooked. The cool part is, right now we have to walk the 50-60 yards to the north side of the field because the rest of our field is surrounded by Corn and we don't want to go down in that stuff. So we walked to the end of the field with the models on cruise. When we got there he wanted to fly combat at the leisurely speed we were flying, I agreed and it was on. Relaxing and fun and the slow speed made the reversal I flew that garnished me his whole streamer, right in front of us, was easy to see. After a bit of dragging two streamers we agreed to add a little more power to keep us out of the beans. Shortly he took my streamer off and then the guy nailed his throttle. Oh sure, NOW he doesn't want to fly low speed combat when he's dragging the only whole streamer around. To make matters worse he NOW has figured out how to use his throttle, I don't know if he's figured out that there is a delay between when he kills throttle and when I can hear it change, but he'll probably figure that out as well. I mean I cut him again but it was work. It was a string cut and the string bound up behind my engine and killed it so we were out of the round. Cool part though, I had 2 cuts he had one in that round which gave me victory for the day. And a couple cool pictures.







    Now we just need to get a couple more to play with us. He actually is thinking of going to a 15 so we have a more casual rate like when we throttle down. Oh and the last picture, when he saw me pull out my camera to take the picture he was all politely trying to pull it off before I snapped the pic. 'here, let me clean that off for your photo'. Yeah right, buddy!
    Intentional landings WITH a PBF are not
    the intentional design OF the PBF

  16. #16
    DeferredDefect's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    Get younger people interested. It won't take much.
    With the prospect of total destruction, carnage, midairs. etc, almost any teen would try it.
    "Any landing you can walk away from probably wasn't that exciting to watch"
    Sig Kadet Brotherhood #8

  17. #17

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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    Sure, kids love carnage. But you end up doing all the work!

    They need to get involved in the tweaking. If they don't invest of themselves, the payoff is negative for everyone.
    Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig. Everyone gets dirty and the pig likes it.

  18. #18
    DeferredDefect's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?



    I'm 16, and know many people my age who spend hours on R/C cars, electric aircraft, etc. The basis is there, as is the interest. I don't think that this is the problem. I think most people have never joined a club, and thus have never been exposed to other aspects of the hobby. 
    Get them into the club with a basic trainer, let them learn the basics of engine operation and care, as well as building skills needed to build future aircraft, such as a combat plane.

    There is not enough overall interest in combat for growth. I know of only one person in my club who fly's combat, and, because of this, newcomers are largely unaware.

    "Any landing you can walk away from probably wasn't that exciting to watch"
    Sig Kadet Brotherhood #8

  19. #19

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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    Our group in SE Michigan has been really getting into the combat thing this year. We are flying electric foamies of my design. Built around the popular Blue Wonder motor, and inexpensive batteries, servos, and ESC. The AUW is 7-8 oz. We go for 7 minute rounds. I hate to try to post all the information here, So I will link to RCGroups where I do most of my hanging out.

    The point is this, if the emotional investment is low, then more people are willing to give it a go. Lot's of combat converts in this part of the country due to these planes.

    Ken http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1012551

  20. #20
    Nitro2Burn's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    The easiest part about getting people in I find is the attraction to low cost modelling, with low cost comes low care, with low car comes the willingness to give things you wouldn't normally a go. I make combat planes from 5mm coreflute here and midairs are very regular, to the point we even include them in a scoring flight. Since combat is still relatively new here and there are no real rules set we are enjoying making them up as we go, but our points ride on streamer cut 5 points, kill 3 points, mid air that keeps flying 1 point. because they are 5mm coreflute they tend to survive midairs quite well, usually only needing a new prop.

    Combat seems to attract the wide open throttle modeller more than others, if you can see a hoon in your club, be assured they will give combat a go, just look for the guys who love doing low, full noise passes. Inviting them to combat is like waving a steak infront of a dog.
    If you have the world on a plate, does that make the moon ice cream?

  21. #21
    juanjulian's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    Thanks for all your replies.

    Will take the dust of my plane today and go and try to fish new people at a diferent club of my country.


    Cheers,

    Juan

  22. #22

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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    I DON'T SEE WHAT THE BIG DEAL IS,SO YOU GET YOUR PLANE EATEN ALIVE WHILE FLYING COMBAT,IF YOU ARE WORRY ABOUT A $100 PLANE YOU SHOULD KEEP EM HOME ON THE SHELF,LETS BE HONEST,EXCEPT FOR A BEGINER ,THE MOST FUN IN FLYING R/C IS LANDING.NOT FLYING AROUND IN CIRCLES OR A FEW LOOPS OR BARREL ROLLS ,NOTHING IS MORE BEAUTIFUL AND SATISFYING THAN A PERFECT 3 POINT LANDING ,THE PROBLEM IS PUTING SOME FUN BACK IN FLYING,I HAVE NO QUALMS ABOUT GETING MY TAIL FEATHERS CUT OFF,HOW EXCITING THAT IS ,YES ,I AM TRYING TO ORGANIZE A COMBAT FOR OUR NEXT ELECTRIC FLY IN AUGUST ,WISH ME LUCK

  23. #23

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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    WHEN I WAS A KID,SO LONG AGO I DON;T KNOW WHEN THAT WAS,ME AND MY FRIEND WERE FLYING PROFILES LIKE THE RINGMASTER AND THE MUSTANG,WITH FOX 35 AND MCOY READ HEADS
    WE ENTERED OUR FIRST AMA SPONSORED EVENT HELD IN HICKVILLE LONG ISLAND NEW YORK,IT WAS HELD IN THE SHOPING CENTER PARKING LOT ,THE WHOLE LOT WAS CLOSED OFF,WE ENTERED THE COMBAT EVENT AND I BELIEVE AT THAT TIME THE STREAMERS HAD TO BE 12 OR 15 FT LONG ,2 FLYERS AT A TIME ,WE HAD A BALL,WHO CARED IF YOU LOST A PLANE ,YOU COULD BUILD A RINGMASTER IN ONE EVEING,IT WAS THE MOST FUN WE EVER HAD ,WE WERE 12 YEARS OLD ,AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED,THE ONLT THING BETTER WOULD BE TO MOUNT A REAL GUN AND SHOOT EACH OTHER OUT OF THE SKY,OF COURSE THAT WOULD BE TO DANGEROUS ,THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE IS LETS PUT SOME FUN IN FLYING AGAIN

  24. #24
    jimmyjames213's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?


    ORIGINAL: Clean

    Had a pretty good day yesterday, been getting one of the guys at my club into combat. Gave him a HOR last year, he stuck a 32 on it and I've been trying to keep up with him with my 25 combat ships. But it works out pretty well. Last couple weekends we've been doing combat at the field. It hasn't caught on to other folks because there's never anyone out there when we do it BUT we have a club meeting this next weekend and I hope someone else gets interested. Our field is also right up against the highway so often, like yesterday, there will be someone driving by that stops and watches a round. Last night we heard a car turn onto the gravel and held off to let them pass then figured out they were watching so we got back into it. After we landed they were clapping and yelling, pretty cool and I have to say this guy is pretty hooked. The cool part is, right now we have to walk the 50-60 yards to the north side of the field because the rest of our field is surrounded by Corn and we don't want to go down in that stuff. So we walked to the end of the field with the models on cruise. When we got there he wanted to fly combat at the leisurely speed we were flying, I agreed and it was on. Relaxing and fun and the slow speed made the reversal I flew that garnished me his whole streamer, right in front of us, was easy to see. After a bit of dragging two streamers we agreed to add a little more power to keep us out of the beans. Shortly he took my streamer off and then the guy nailed his throttle. Oh sure, NOW he doesn't want to fly low speed combat when he's dragging the only whole streamer around. To make matters worse he NOW has figured out how to use his throttle, I don't know if he's figured out that there is a delay between when he kills throttle and when I can hear it change, but he'll probably figure that out as well. I mean I cut him again but it was work. It was a string cut and the string bound up behind my engine and killed it so we were out of the round. Cool part though, I had 2 cuts he had one in that round which gave me victory for the day. And a couple cool pictures.







    Now we just need to get a couple more to play with us. He actually is thinking of going to a 15 so we have a more casual rate like when we throttle down. Oh and the last picture, when he saw me pull out my camera to take the picture he was all politely trying to pull it off before I snapped the pic. 'here, let me clean that off for your photo'. Yeah right, buddy!
    geez clean, making fun of the new guy i see, btw ill be back in town on monday so im free for more combat, ive also got some good ideas from the combat guys down here in wichita so let me know when you want to go to .15 size, ill join in. btw the secret wepon.....pink insulation foam and a cnc foam cutter.....
    Anything worth doing.............is worth overdoing

  25. #25
    GSJames's Avatar
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    RE: HOW TO GET PEOPLE INTO COMBAT?

    Hey Clean and JimmyJames, don't forget about the SSC and Open B contest in Wichita (Afton) on August 6th and 7th. A bunch of Texans are planning to come up and kick some Kansas and Missouri butt, so you had better be there to defend the honor of the Sunflower and ShowMe states!!! We might even get one or two Okies to show up. Bill Blake will be the CD and the info is on the RCCA website: rccombat.com
    Gary James
    AMA CD 68845, NMPRA 15I, RCCA #908


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