gokemidoro

Hello, all.

Yes, there's a Traxxas rally thread at the mini/micro forum, but this is not a thread about how good it is, but conversely, how BAD the rally actually is, if someone is expecting any kind of serious or even decent performance from it.
My experience? I've drifted for a couple of years, and by no means am a driftking, but I practice more than the average commenter here at RCU, being retired, and can do it all day, if I want. I build my own chassis from kits, and and adjust them myself, as well.

On to the rally:

It is no drifter, nor a Gymkhana. In fact, it won't do much it is advertised to do. I'm sure many have seen the KB Gymkhana vids on Youtube, the "L'Autodrome" vid, in particular. This one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TshFWSsrn8

The Traxxas rally won't do HALF of what's on that vid. Not even close.

I get tired of magazine articles that give the rally glowing reviews, without a single negative mark, when the product will not meet even the lowest of expectation of it's advertising. What's worse, is that the rally would make a fair on-road basher, but comes shodwith the wrong tires for grip ORdrift. I drove the rally, and based on my initial impression, made my own Gymkhana:

http://s974.photobucket.com/albums/a...ally-Gymkhana/

My own representation cost as much as the rally to build, is 1/10th scale, compared to the mutant scale of the rally, and will do 99% of what's on the KB vid.

I want to hear from anyone who does, or does not agree with my assessments, but be aware, I am NOT a Traxxas fan (though I once was), so you will get a biased opinion of the rally (heheh! gotta stir the pot).

woody_294

You seen this?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvHpn9wuQLI[/youtube]

gokemidoro

Pretty much my assessment, as well. He was being kind.
I have no axe to grind with Traxxas, but I think it's bad business to advertise something this bad, as something it can never be, with doctored vids and slick marketing.

Want to start an uproar? Post that vid at the "Traxxas rally VXL" thread!

woody_294

Lol, no I think I'll leave it here in the drifting section where I hopefully won't get hatemail! Yeah properly sucks that they've gone and come up with this, which is I think comes across as thrown together. They could've done it as a 1/10 tourer and actually made it a decent drift car :/ Or even done something like the DF03 Ra as I've seen those used as drifters to good effect, and they're obv rally capable too.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AyoddDCT_s[/youtube]

Skip to 1:12!

gokemidoro

!!LOL!!

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no!! !!LOL!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too bad about not posting on the rally VXL thread, you'd have them spinning like tops!

I have a buddy in California who was using a DF03RA as a drift/rally/gymkhana, and it worked out really well for him. He had three sets of wheels/tires for each discipline, and he didn't have to change anything else. My own Gymkhana works well on-road, but because it is belt drive, can't be taken into the dirt, but I was making a point about Traxxas' rally, and with the same amount of money, made a better rally than Traxxas' KB version.

At least we know the rally can be made eco-friendly!

BlueShade Zero

What are people using for their Gymkhana tires? I imagine that its a half between grip wheels, and HPI super drifts (which i use on my drifter). I've always wanted to setup a spec that would get speed, with the fines to kick it sideways at 30 mph with out loosing its control. Thus far, the only things i've EVER gotten to output something similar to this is with old, worn down race tires, unfortunately i usually end up with results as Mr.Block did at the end of that video (all hub no tire).

gokemidoro

I can't speak for the rally users, but I use either HPI A-drifts (super-expensive, and a set can be seen in the pics of my Gymkhana-body on, not the chassis pics) or thunder tigers (which are a bit cheaper) rubber drift tires on my 1/10th scale Gymkhana. They get the Gymkhana up to speed, and still drift well. Standard drift tires will not work to keep the speeds Gymkhana requires. Yes, I end up with the same-rimwith shredded rubber leftovers.
The Traxxas rally is seriously unbalanced for any kind of on-road driving, and that may be why it won't drift, Gymkhana and maybe even grip driving, as well. It's Traxxas' EPICFAIL.

BlueShade Zero

So i looked up those "A Type" drift tires... Ends up that theyre the super drifts that i always used. Who knew =p

Should check out those Thunder Tigers though. Atleast give them a shot..

As for the rallys poor ability to drift, its largely in contribution to...

A) The strange ass shock setup. Theres no way to do proper tunings on them with out extensive modification of the shock mountings or rockers themselves... Big fail on traxxas's part.

B) SUPER high center of gravity... Go ahead, put some grip tires on it and observe its awesome, auxiliary cartwheeling performance. Seriously, i've never had an RC wheel for 30+ feet, and then drive back like it was no problem.

C) Crappy freaking tires. Dont know what they were doing with these, but they really just dont work. I've tried every tuning i could, but i just cant get them right. The ONLY time i've gotten them to exert performance was on a wooden deck, which you shouldnt have to reduce your surfaces traction to get it to perform like it should.
Beyond that, they stick too much to drift, but slip too much to stick... I describe it as "they grip, until they just dont...".

D) REALLY stupid differential setup. Seriously, when i took them apart to do them up, whatever was in there literally ran out of the diff... Diffs are WAY too soft as they are. I toughened up the rear with 50 weight, and 30 in front and it was better. Ideally for a drifter, you'd spool the rear, and put something heavier up front. For me, i prefer the front 1 way. 100% forward power, and RWD breaking.

After hours of working with the thing, these are my conclusions. Really quite a mess of a drift spec RC. They just HAD to go and use the slash chassis, which they already knew wasnt working well.

EDIT:

Its worth mentioning that after the modifications i've done (including a ghetto rigged front/rear sway bar, they really should have made this an option for the model, would have unscrewed a LOT) i've gotten it to do very well off road. This is going to be my little traveling companion for on/off road bashing.

Its quite strong, even if it cant handle slapping into a quarter inch of pushed up sidewalk. I've done some stupid things with this already and its done quite well. Takes some work, but it CANdrive off road.

gokemidoro

Yah, I've had E-Revos in the past (In the dark ages, when I was still into off-road), and became a pro at adjusting the F1 style suspension, and even modding the chassis, so I know what you are saying about the chassis.

Given it's poor gymkhana abilities, I attribute these to it's motor-above-centerline location, the fact that a one-battery set up unbalances it even further, the almost "oversquare" relation between it's wheel track and wheelbase, and you could try 100,000 wt diff oil in the rear. Heck, you could go even thicker, without giving up dif action in the rear end, and still have both rear tires spinning.
I thought of putting the ESC and receiverINSIDE the right battery bay, a LiPo in the left, and leave nothing but the motor on top, but that still leaves the bulk of weight over the wheels.

Yah, the design was meant for off-road, and that is where it should have stayed. I get a kick out of the guys at the rally thread at the mini/micro forum, and their cockamamie ideas!

crzsteveo

gymkhana is pretty hard to do with a RC car...full size is a different story.

BlueShade Zero

True, very true. Gymkhana is pretty difficult to do since alot of your reactions has to practically be muscle memory. The small scale means all your room for error is exponentially less, being that the speed of RC's is easily 10x what a normal car would be doing. However, for the purpose of this topic, the Rally is exceptionally bad at it.

I have 2 other RC's that are multifold better at it then the rally. The car is querky at best, and its inherant issues are just too much for its outdated chassis design.

The chassis was meant to be for a Revo, and thats it. The slash was bad, i hoped they worked around some issues with the rally, they didnt. Just another sham for them to sell the chassis one last time, and most people wont be looking at it again after this farce...

Casper06

I will say from my personal experience as I own the Ken Block Crapxas car it will not drift properly and I've tried to tweak it out as much as I could. I chalk it up to a loss and I even went against my own gutt feelings about Traxxas products when I purchased it. My next plan is just beef up the weak points with RPM stuff and use it for the only thing a Traxxas is good at and that is launching it of a ramp and seeing how much air it can get. That's my 2 cents.

gokemidoro

crzsteveo,

I've made a Gymkhana from an Ofna Drift chassis, and it works great! My thread on it is on the second page of the drift forum somewhere........
EDIT: STOOPUDme....It's in my first entry, here!

Casper06,

It will still make a good "grip" car. With some sticky tires, and tightening up the suspension, it will do pretty well. It'll give the HPICup Racers and Tamiya MO5's a run for their money. Don't bash it up jumping it quite yet.....It may still be good for on-road!!

The E-Revo chassis is still the premier off-road monster truck chassis, and Traxxas should have really thoughtit out more, before releasing it as the rally. Their "on-road" line has been suspect for years, because they haven't spent ANYtime developing anything on-road. They don't even make noticeable changes in their off-road line for years. Evidence their earlier E-Maxx and T-Maxx lines. Both of those went five years or more without significant (and sorely needed) changes.

I used to love Traxxas, but now they are only in it for profit, and what makes it worse is the obviousness of it, and the magazines are willing accomplices to it.

Building a well- thought out kit is still the best way to get exactly what you want, and while you may spend a bit more, you will at least have the best representation of what it is you wanted. My Ofna Gymkhana is evidence of that.

Casper06

Any video of the Ofna in action? The chassis layout looks well balanced.

gokemidoro

Nah, not yet. Gotta get a videocam first. They're getting really inexpensive, so I may get one soon. I'd like to make a vid doing everything in the KB "L'Autodrome" vid, just to show that the Ofna works as I've said, and the Traxxas won't, but I don't know anyone here who actually bought one yet. At one LHS, they STILLhave the same rally on the shelf that they first got (I asked), and the other, they haven't ordered any. It's too bad, because it would be great to show them side-by-side, in a comparo.

I can tell you this.....I drove the rally, and it won't do what the Ofna will. Not even close.

BlueShade Zero

Right now i run Gymkhana with my Sprint2 Sport Drift, and my DF03 RA. I'm investing in a purpose built, Yokomo DRB right now though, i hope the yokomo will be sick as hell.

If your doing it right, Gymkhana is worse for your car then grip racing. Its a FAR FAR more aggressive driving style, and you have tons of hard breaking and acceleration. I've shattered my steel out drives twice now on my sprint 2. So far, no damage to the DF03 RA, but its quite new.

Right now, the Sprint 2 is strictly for street, and runs a set of HPI Super Drifts. It works real nice and i can get some good technical stuff with it.

The DF03 RA will run where ever i drive it into, be it street, grass, dirt or even jumps, and it runs either HPI Pirelli's or an old set of racing wheels.

On that topic, btw, if no one's tried it, take a set of old racing wheels that have been worn well down (even missing some tread) and try those. The grip like racing wheels on the straights, but the wear and tear makes them slippery through the curves. It makes them great gymkhana wheels.

I would however like to see some good gymkhana action thats not just a silly KB re-enactment. I've yet to youtube a decent video of some one who either doesnt suck or is doing it right. Would be nice to actually see some other racers.

gokemidoro

I know all about the wear and tear - It's why I have drag brake dialed in the ESC. Seems to work better than constant forward-aft on the trigger. Easier on the drivetrain (especially the outdrives).
The Ofna is a pretty tough chassis, kind of a blend of monster truck (pillow ball front suspension) and on-road. I've bashed it pretty hard, and have yet to see anything break.

I don't think you're likely to see anything at Youtube on Gymkhana soon. It's still being worked out. Just as it is with you and I. Everybody is still starry-eyed about the Traxxas rally, and that being the case, until more do as you and I are doing, it'll be just the same crap being put up now.

I'm considering trying out the JL10e TC from Ofna for Gymkhana, too. It's a shaftie, so I'll be able to do dirt with it. The DF03RA has a few bugs in it still, and needs option parts to work well. The Ofna drift doesn't, and I have had the JL10e TC before, so I know it won't need extra work to Gymkhana, too. It'll be my spring and summer project.

BlueShade Zero

Yeah i know what you mean about the DF03-RA... Its not bad at all though, infact id say its a badass chassis. The steering has some slop issues which, yeah, needs option parts to stiffen up, and the slipper clutch if you run brushless... Thats it though. Beyond that its a pretty ballin rally car. Best purpose built one still in production.

The only issue i have with mine is the ****ty Novak that i have in it. Stupid thing keeps on dropping voltage on me and either resetting the ESC, or going into LiPo cut off... I think the problem is the capacitor, since it will only go out if i'm being really hard on and off the throttle.

DF03RA is cheap and had a VERY VERY good center of balance. Since its based on a buggy, its got excellent off road capacity, and handles jumps nicely. If you get the Dark Impact shell for it (the model its based on) it will fit perfectly over your chassis, providing a grit shield. The fact that its so well sealed off is what got me to buy it.

I'm still working on it though. The front diff busted on it, and i'm trying to gather the list of parts i need to re-assemble it. I've got it jury rigged right now so it works, but its a tad tight and i cant loosen it with out breaking it again. The rear diff is also a tad right, its a bit too squirrely to reliably pull straight after a turn. However, it fits the nitche that i bought it for anyways - RC Rally.

gokemidoro

Yah, I still like the DF03RA, and as you say, it's still the best purpose-built rally chassis, period. My friend in California loved his, and he'll probably get another one for spring break (he sold his present one - college is expensive).
Have you tried the one-way for the DF03?

Yup, forget Novak. I'll tell you, I don't know why they still have adherents. They use the cheapest components of all the manufacturers, and sell at some of the highest prices. Their capacitors are party poppers. I had four of their systems when I first went LiPo, and all four went kaput within four months. One was even returned for repair for warranty, and Novak accused me of abusing the system, and wouldn't honor the warranty (just so it's known, I've run Castle systems under the exact same conditions and setup, without a single problem). All four are sitting in a landfill somewhere. And their programming setup is bulls**t too. Counting flashing lights???

Nah, dude, I'll take Castle ANYday of the week. Some complain about "cogging", since they're unsensored systems, but I find it a VERYsmall annoyance, as most of it can be programmed out via the Castle Link, if done correctly.
If you're contemplating a new system, try the Castle Sidewinder Sv2. Dial in drag brake - it'll save some driveline components, and you'll find you're not using brake at all, just letting the trigger to neutral will brake. The car will respond faster.

BlueShade Zero

Yeah i use a castle in my sprint2 sport, but quite honestly i find it... Inconsistent... Its like it cogs randomly even when the motor is up to speed, even though i havnt notice a cogging issue where you would normally expect them...

I'll look into the sidewinder though, once i try getting another capacitor for this thing. I'm thinking of linking them in parallel, but if that doesnt work, i'm tossing it. Cant stand to be in the middle of a run, then suddenly have the car just stop dead.

As for the front one way, i think that might what i'll do. I find it just retarded that they dont offer a diff rebuild kit though. I'm just worried about it drastically effecting my handling, since i will actually run rally with it (as its primary function)

gokemidoro

If your system is cogging at speed, something else is wrong with it. Maybe settings between it and the transmitter, but I've never experienced problems that others say they have. I have seven Castle systems, and all work as they should. Two have even been abused mercilessly, and are still running strong. It sounds like something is amiss with the motor. You might call Castle Tech about it.
If you haven't set soldering iron to it, send it back for a check and/or repair. Unlike Novak, Castle stands behind their products.

Nah, dude, the front one-way will definitely enhance the way it drives, even more so in the dirt. My friend said the one-way madehis DF03RAcorner better, and corner exits were faster, just as they would on-road. When he shod it with drift wheels, it worked out well there, too. Only thing is, you may have to change your driving habits (which is why I recommend programming in drag brake) because you won't have brakes or reverse at the front wheels with a one-way. The car will only be reliant on the rear wheels for brakes, so adjustments to speed at certain points is in order, but it's not hard....for most, they actually become faster. My own experience is, I am not slowing down and speeding up around a track, I'm actually maintaininga constant speed all the way around, but my corner speeds are definitely faster.

BlueShade Zero

Alright cool, sounds like a front one way is something i'll be looking into. I've only used them on my drifter to kick out the rear, since doing so otherwise is extremely difficult at the speeds i run. I'll see if i can find an american distributor since japan is closed up for the next month...

gokemidoro

Try Tamiya America. I think they're somewhere close to you, if I'm not mistaken, but they will most likely have it. It will be a bit pricey, but under the present circumstances in Japan, it may be the only recourse.

Casper06

I slapped some HPI X pattern tires on her and now all it will do is go fast in a straight line and flip during cornering unless i baby it and slow way down. It is official this car is worthless...

BlueShade Zero

Sway bars... Some group FINALLY made a set for the 1/16ths, something traxxas shoulda done ages ago but were too retarded to figure it out. Trust me, put a rear one in and it will help with the flipping, front and rear even more. Also, harden up the shocks, since theyre really loose and floppy as they are. I got mine to exert some... well i reduced flipping anyways... with effort...