ToraKitsu

Nah, I wouldn't say "massive," but a difference, nonetheless. The area it will be noticed is in transitions (going from left to right, or right to left). There is also no "hand brake" effect, which is pretty important with CS drift chassis.

I'd like to see pics!

R32GolfTA06

I'll stick to my cs'ing, where did you get your wee exhaust and is it attached to body or chassis?

ToraKitsu

That's an HPI item, as are the mirrors and rear wing. They are all attached to the body.

I also used mirrored chrome mylar tape for the mirrors and edges of the wing. You can get that from an LHS that stocks planes. It's kind of pricey, though......

R32GolfTA06

It's a shame someone didn't have a spare one because I don't want the full kit with mirrors, just an exhaust

ToraKitsu

I can't post a link (guess I don't know enough about laptops yet), but the kit part number is "LXTGZ4" at Tower hobbies. They are out-of-stock at the moment, but I'm sure it's available elsewhere.

And TQRC Racing also sells a body set kit like the HPI one, from Tamiya, but all of them completely outfit a body. You may find just an exhaust tip, so try taking a look at TQRC. I shop with them about once a month, and they are reliable and a bit less expensive than most larger online outlets.

R32GolfTA06

thanks :-)

R32GolfTA06

I have just purchased the front on way cs drifting diff, following all this great advise... Ill hopefully not have to wait weeks for it.. the waiting for purchases almost kills me lol

i was think about getting these for my cs drifter as I assume the more teeth the smoother the transmission? Or are less teeth and more torque better?

ToraKitsu

A couple of things - First, you might have it wrong way 'round, with gearing. There is very little room in the motor bay of the TA06 for excessive gearing changes, and the stock spur is the same one used in their FF03 FWD. It is rather small, and the pinion being of a size that will fit. What size motor are you running, at the moment?

Ideally, you should have a 17.5T if it's brushless (BL) or something like a 27T brushed. Those are smooth, and drift doesn't require tons of RPM, so they are also very easy to modulate, which makes them perfectly suited to drifting. I run the stock spur with a 34T pinion, with a 17.5T BL motor. You would only change gearing, if the present gearing was making the throttle response too quick or too slow.

R32GolfTA06

Currently I have the stock 68t spur with a 22t pinion, but I've bought a 102t spur and a 28t and 29t pinion to try out to see if it makes much difference... But was tempted to try the the white spur in the link I provided previously too.....I have a 13.5 sensored brushless fusion exceed sport combo which I don't intend to change as it was pretty expensive for me being novice boy :-)

ToraKitsu

Yah, well, in that case, lowering you final drive ratio (FDR) will work to your benefit. It's a disturbing trend I see in the US, with overpowered systems being purchased and used in the wrong applications. I don't mean you so much, as 13.5T is not bad, and is easily compensated for, but those who would buy what is comparable to a 6.5T, then when they have problems with drifting, will then modify the chassis, rather than replace the motor, which is where their problems originate, in the first place.

In your case, it would make a difference, if it will fit. As stated before, there is very little room for motor adjustment in the TA06 motor bay, so with the new spur, which is a dead-on choice, btw, just find a pinion that will fit. Again, you are looking for the best combination to enhance smoothness of power delivery, than anything else. Go ahead and try it, and let us know how it work out!

R32GolfTA06

Yes I didnt want to go lower than 13.5t as I knew it would be far too fast, but I thought 17t or there about would be too slow, but then I'm not experienced to comment so I thought something mid range would be ok...

What would the difference be between the 68t spur paired with the 22t pinion and my new options on there way being the tamiya 102t spur with the 29t pinion.... Was I right in thinking the more teeth the smoother the power transfer, or will it speed the car up, being not necessarily want I want?

is the standard set up the better option and what is the difference between the black tamiya 102t I've bought, over the 122t in the link I showed you above?

thanks

ToraKitsu

A few things....

A larger spur in combination with smaller pinion than what comes stock in the kit will lower the output, and will be slower, but conversely, speed is not a concern with drifting, as smoothness is the most important factor.

There are differences when talking about 48P and 64P gears. 64P will be MUCH smoother, with less gear noise, but prone to damage from grit. pebbles, rocks, etc., much easier than 48P. I, myself, prefer 64P, because I drift in clean swept areas, so grit, pebbles, etc., aren't a concern.

The big thing here is, to match the gearing with the power system, which makes power system choice important. I have recommended the 17.5T BL for drift everywhere, yet am inundated with those who believe they know better, and get overpowered systems. I tend not to talk to those people, when they begin asking for solutions, when they find their choice a bad one, but will not correct it. Yours, as stated earlier, is not ideal, but not so overpowered, that it can't be compensated. Your spur choice is a good one, so you're well on your way to making your TA06 perform the way it should.
Just remember.....once the proper motor choice is made, gearing is used primarily to make small adjustments to power delivery, to suit the driver's preferences. In your case, the power system is only slightly overpowered, so your compensation won't be much, but your adjustment parameters are smaller, because the extra power of the 13.5T take up the upper half of that adjustment range, follow?
It's why the spur choice you are contemplating is a good one, coupled with a smaller pinion. You might even go smaller on the pinion, but experiment, and see which combination works for you.

R32GolfTA06

What does pitch mean?
can you explain why my choice is a good one with my motor?
(Believe it or not I was advised by guys in a professional rc car company that 13.5 was ideal for drifting, hence going for it in the first place)
explain: take up the upper half of adjustment range
and my standard pinion is 22t and I'm buying a 28t and 29t pinion, you call the higher number smaller?

sorry for not following you completely as I am trying to get my novice head around all of this, you got over the hurdle re front one way last night so this is number two hurdle lol....

ToraKitsu

Pitch is the angle of each tooth (also related to the size of the teeth themselves) on a given gear like a pinion or spur gear. As pitch sizes go, 32 is the coarsest, meaning the teeth are large, and engagement more positive. These are usually used for 1/8th scale and off-road. 48 pitch is the overall standard for nearly all RC manufacturers. Nearly every RTR you're likely to buy will come with 48 pitch gears. 64 pitch is the finest, with the smallest teeth, and is normally used for on-road, and are usually found on indoor racing chassis.

Your spur choice is ideal because it lowers the overall power output. That 13.5T motor is overpowered for drift, regardless of what you've been told. It's not majorly overpowered, which is why I say you can compensate for it, by lowering your FDR. This would not even be an issue, if we were talking about 50/50 drift, but we're not. CS has limitations, and the smoothest power output is the most important. Unlike 50/50 drift, CS steering inputs are, by comparison, smaller and more frequent. With an overpowered power system, you are not just trying to steer smoothly, but the power output is fighting you, every step of the way. What you are trying to do, is match power output to steering, so both work in unison, rather than have two systems that are at odds with each other. Take what I said about overdrive "pushing" against the front wheels....That's a part of what I'm describing. You are already working with that against you. That's where smooth power delivery is important, and slower systems provide that smoothness. The 17.5T BL system has been found to be the ideal for drift, and is also the standard for most stock racing classes, too.

My suspicion is that you were pushed to buy that 13.5T system, because 13.5T is going the way of the dinosaur. Racing classes that use 13.5T are slowly disappearing, and most shops want to get rid of their stock of that rating any way they can. In a sense, you can take what you were told, about that 13.5T system, is just a part of that.

O.K., when I say "take up the upper half of adjustment range," do this:

Draw a line down a piece of paper. The left half will be labeled "13.5T." The right half will be labeled "17.5T" Now draw a line down the middle of the right half. There should be two lines on the paper now. Now fold the paper in half, so all that shows is the right half. Now....the paper to the left of the line is the upper half of your adjustment range (as regards spur/pinion choice). That's what that 13.5T system takes up, in adjustment capability. There is an upper and lower adjustment range with every motor size. What you have done, with the 13.5T system, is take up the upper half (designated by the left half of that 17.5T labeled side) of the 17.5T adjustment range.
You are now left with fewer choices, to adjust your power output, follow? Each motor has an adjustment range. When motor choice is not ideal, whichever end of the power spectrum the choice is (in your case, it was 13.5T, or the upper half of 17.5T, the lower half would be a 21.5T motor) takes away from your available choices. In other words, the right half of the paper now doesn't apply to you, any longer. This is the adjustment range that is lost, with the 13.5T motor.

If you are running a 22T pinion as stock, just get the spur. Try that first.

R32GolfTA06

Thanks for all of that and I think i understand most of it..

I did get the Spur, being the 102t Black Tamiya spur and then realised it doesnt fit with the 22t pinion as the pinon's teeth are too chuncky and wide for the finer teeth of the spur.. hense going for the new 29t pinion.

Damn Modelsport for selling me a 13.5t motor!! it is confusing to begin though as alot of american web forums indicate alot of drifters runing anything from 5.5 to 10.5motors (which in agreement with you doesnt make sense) but yet some others are suggesting the 17t to 21t motors.. ahh well i will have to live with what i have now as I dont have a limitless budget... I guess i could buy an eurgle drift assist to make my drifting more fun untill I get a 17.5t brushless system. (who says cheating isnt fun too hehe)

How does the spur with more finer teeth lower power output?

Cheers ( have you ever thought about starting your own blog/magazine because you clearly know your stuff)

ToraKitsu

It's common for LHS to sell what they have. Mine is that way, too. They know me as someone who is particular (seeing as I'm the only one who goes there that orders on-road stuff) about what I buy, so don't even try to sell me things they know I don't need. The owner sometimes gets something he thinks I'll be interested in, and he's become pretty good at knowing what I want.

As I say, you can easily work with the 13.5T motor, just gear down. To do that, just get the largest spur and small pinion that will fit on your TA06. Whether 48 or 64 pitch, the way you tell about gear reduction is, the spur will be large, and the pinion small. You know what comes stock, so just go from there. Easy-peasy! I gave up "speed at all costs" a while ago. Nothing is more sobering than seeing a $1,000 RC car slam into a curb, and turn itself into bits of plastic and bent metal, at 65 MPH to 0 in a millisecond. I can laugh about it now!
So.....I just use power systems that are a bit slower, and to be completely honest, more fun! It's a challenge, to get the right power system for whatever discipline, and for drift, it is the slower systems that do the best. I also do some track racing when can, with front wheel drive minis, or 1/12th scale. I'm working on a couple, now. They ARE fun! Not very fast, but they don't have to be - they look like cockroaches scurrying for cover, when ontrack! Once I saw an "M" class race on Youtube, I was hooked! I have been doing that, now, for three years, and will never give up my "M" class cars.

64 pitch is only good for less noise. I like it, because of that. My chassis are fairly quiet to begin with, so 64 pitch gears just enhance that. It's a good thing to take advantage of, so if something does go wrong, you can easily tell, just by the sound. It's the diameter of the gears that delineate what your FDR is. The tooth count is the way to tell what it is, by number.

Blog? Me? Nah.....I'm just an old guy who loves working on RC cars! I don't mind helping out how I can, and am particular about who I can help, because so many act like they know better than everyone else, or are into their own work, which, in the scheme of things isn't so bad, but I'm just not into "tooting my own horn," if you know what I mean.

R32GolfTA06

Thanks mate,and it all makes perfect sense.. and that sounds painful about destroying a car that you lost blood sweat and tears over to just smash up.. but certainly a learning experience that wont be forgotten.

I have had several little M05 minis when I was much younger in my mid to late teens.. but now that im 30 I wanted to build a proper little project and take my time doing it.. hense working on it for the last 1.5-2 years and its starting to really come together.. I bought that white 122t 64p spur this mornging to give myself something else to experiment with.

it might be a few weeks before i get some pics up as I want to have the car completely finished and looking as I want before presenting to the the world lol

R32GolfTA06

Hi Joe, ive just realised ive taken over your thread, but hopefully my conversation with Torakitsu has helped you too..

ToraKitsu

Actually, you should try an ABC Hobby mini! Their Grid (Or "Gambado," if you're outside the US) FWD is faster than the M05. It will blow the doors off an M05 all day. Mind you, when I say it's faster, not much faster, but faster, all the same. It handles better, too.
They're banned almost everywhere, but one track I know of, in California. I now know why!

Ahhhhh.....so.....a perfectionist, eh?

R32GolfTA06

I'll have a look and see what the abc hobby mini us like. I am a bit of a perfectionist :-) it was like Christmas came early when I got home from work... There where so many bits for my car waiting for me :-)

ToraKitsu

I love when orders arrive! I just made one this AM! It will arrive in about three days - just in time for when I go get my next kit - M05!

If you want to see my minis, I have a thread in the on-road section here, at RCU: "revisiting the "M" class." I have pics of my Grids there. I think you'd like them, and love them even more, when you drive one! They definitely drive better than an M05, bone stock, with plastic chassis and stock friction shocks! No kidding on that!
Both my M05 S-Spec and the carbon Grid are heavily modified, and the Grid still stomps my S-Spec! I like M05's, because they're the only ones I can race. The Grid in the pics is my street Grid, or basher.

If you are like me (an inveterate tinkerer), I think you would love working on a Grid (or Gambado, where you are).

R32GolfTA06

looking back, I didn't enjoy my mo5, I found the handling terrible and not as easy to control as the tlo1, ta06 and alike.. The rear end was very light and kept spinning out for no reason.. Didn't see very balanced, and that goes for the front wheel drives with similar since to the ta06 too, the rear wheel/ 4 wheel drive chassis are greet though


ill go have a look at the other thread now...

R32GolfTA06

For my ta06 is it important to have the stiffest suspension possible or is a medium better? And in terms of the anti roll bars, I was going to go for medium too?! Is that sufficient?

ToraKitsu

Soft front, medium -stiff rear. That is the "default" for drift.

And no, you don't need anti-roll bars. At all. Since a little flex in the chassis is optimum, anti-roll bars just complicate tuning.

wahoo

My Feedback: (59)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xFkv...EwcJw&index=32