DieHarder

Rob: Yes, that washer is a diff shim. Here is a pic snip from the manual so everyone knows what we're talking about.



#67 is the diff shim/washer. #119 is the washer behind the spider gears. My 'assembled' differential that wasn't actually assembled did not have those #67 shims/washers. I lucked out by using dad's workplace to find a diff shim that was 0.012" thick that fit in the indent made for it. My diff is custom shimmed and running great. No gear mesh issues or uneven wear at all. Just wanted to get that straight for the records.

cumquat: All steel FTW! I have access to steel machinery equipment but not anything special like laser cutters or lathes, but I do have most of the basic stuff such as a drill press, vise and hacksaw, grinding wheel and wire wheel, shop press, all drill bit sizes, and lots of scrap steel/aluminum. If you want help with a design or need some help making prototypes, post up what you need and I can try it out on my evader or send you pics/drawings. In other words... I'm ready to help!

cumquat

i'm thinking 1/8" or 12 gauge sheet if i go with a plate chassis. i'm actually leaning towards 1/8" x 3/4" strip for the initial build. trying to keep things cheap and use locally sourced materials as much as possible.

gearbox is easy enough. i have this 3/8" plate that i'm thinking about using. have to figure out what design would be best though. one uses 2 chunks of the 3/8" plate with recesses drilled just deep enough in each for the gears to sit in, like the stock gearbox. the other uses a single piece with holes drilled clean through then 2 thin plates (either 1/16" or 1/8") with small holes drilled for the bearings. that design would use flanged bearings with the flange on the inside. the half and half gearbox will be heavier, but will also be stronger. the dual cover design should be easier to work on (in theory, you wont have to remove the gearbox at all if you dont want to) but has the downfall of both sides being held on with the same screws (if they rattle loose, bad things can happen).

one material i am fully willing to order is this http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant...30&top_cat=197 which is what i plan to make the suspension arms out of. in the proof of concept build i'll probably just solder them together but in the later builds i'll most definitely be welding, if i dont have an oxy/acetylene torch at that point. that's the 3rd big tool on my "to get" list, right behind a large air compressor and a cut-off saw. to make the arms, all i plan to do is bend that rod with my vise and either some sort of pliers or my own 2 hands. simple and effective.

shock towers will be made with either the same strip/sheet as the chassis, the same rod as the arms or some 1/4" plate. i'll probably stick with a design similar to stock, but i have some ideas for more durable and/or adjustable designs.


dieharder, instead of helping me with my designs, why dont you try your own build? it'd be interesting to see what you can come up with. either way, i will post if i run into trouble (other than financing, of course).

rusty, i dont have access to a full machine shop. the biggest pieces of machinery i have are my drill press and my cheap welder. you can buy my whole shop setup for less than $2000 brand new and have WAY better stuff in many cases. seriously, i'm anticipating to use my dremel for ANY and ALL machining. that's going to be fun... in the road trip from Florida to Alaska in the Flintstones' car with 3 people form "my 600 pound life" in the back seat and Paris Hilton sitting next to you saying "that's hot" as you pass EVERY SINGLE MILE MARKER sort of way.


my biggest issue at thew moment however is this; when i checked my wallet at noon today (well, yesterday now) i had 4 $20's (that's $80). now, my wallet has 1 $20, 1 $10, 1 $5 and 5 $1's (that's $40). this happens to me a lot and it's going to get worse, because in 3 days (the 10th) i celibate my birthday... my twenty-first birthday. so i'll be buying steel with what's left of that $40 and what ever is left from my birthday money (if i even get any). no, i will not be starting the steel evader drunk. hung over, possibly, but not drunk.

RustyUs

Have you seen this before? It's a start.

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

You guys DO realize how much a steel Evader is going to weigh, don't you? I think we've been down this road before. Even with aluminum, it's going to weigh a lot. And not perform very well. But hey, fit a big enough motor in it and it'll go....

cumquat

i'm anticipating 11 pounds or so RTR. brushless is so powerful that we are spoiled by the performance. i'm expecting it to behave much like a brushed evader.

rusty, no i havent seen that before. that chassis, even if made of 3/16" plate, wouldnt be strong enough. if i go plate/sheet, it'll either be shaped very similar to the stock chassis or it'll have a full length top plate,

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

Eleven pounds. Eleven pounds.

The twist on the axles is going to wear them out fast, if not turn 'em into Twizzlers(tm). The drive train wasn't designed to take that kind of load.

But it'll be interesting to see what fails first.

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

'K, ya know what? That was not very kind of me. I apologize.

What I should have said was that you will certainly need a stronger servo, possibly a HV one, wouldn't you say?

It's the strain on the dogbones I'm worried about. If you can find some hardened steel ones, preferably with a heftier shaft, you might avoid driveshaft problems.
But the pins on the ends, "the ears", may not fit in the drive cups, so you'll have to be aware of that.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes, mate.

cumquat

oh, i fully expect to use a heavy duty servo. i'll be using my 3305 until i can afford one of them $100+ units. i'm not all that worried about the drive shafts. if i do manage to twist a drive shaft, i'll work on a fix then. i'm more worried about the bearings.

DieHarder

Sorry, I can't attempt something that costly/time consuming at the moment. I'm in the process of building my RC trailer from scratch, trying to fix all me RCs, and saving for a crawler kit w/ custom build. Sorry. :/ I still want to help in any way possible.

I've seen some 20lb+ RCs built off RTR models. A look at those might help with designing. I agree with Rob on the performance factor. With it being so heavy, it probably will act more like a tank instead of a high speed off-road machine. What are your ideas for shocks to support this thing? Maybe double them up?

cumquat

i never said this thing would perform well, i just said i'd build it out of steel! i doubt it'll break 25 on 3s with the gearing needed.

RustyUs

Ok...so I'm looking @ Tower Hobbies and now late August for Brushless Evader diffs now. I should be used to it by now. It took a year of patience for a spare EXT gearbox. If they dont come up with them by the winter time, I'm thinking that will be the last straw for me and it'll be time to part ways with Duratrax Evader line of trucks.

While on the gear subject...since when did they stop making the Nitro ST aluminum idler gear?

What are the nitro guys and B2 diff upgrade guys using nowadays for idlers?

DieHarder

It looks like they have one available here: http://www.activepowersports.com/dur...WqgaAtOC8P8HAQ

Should've gotten the EXT gearbox off eBay. Someone always has one.

Do you have a part number for the Nitro ST aluminum idler gear?

RustyUs

Oh, I do have the Brushless Evader tranny in my ST Pro, and have been using it ever since 2011. The idler gear referenced in all the Associated B2 diff gear tranny mods (Nitro ST Idler DTXC8081) has been discontinued. I do believe now Hobbico has given up hope for the Evader ST.

RustyUs

I did a search this morning and found it has been asked twice about using the EXT metal idler gear in the original Evader ST/ST Pro gearbox. I couldn't find a definite answer though. It bugged me all day cause I have three ST trannys that I kept for spares, if I was to do the Associated B2 diff gear replacement.

Here's what I came up with:
DTXC8080 Evader ST Idler .6395 inches in diameter
DTXC8082 EXT plastic Idler .6545 inches in diameter
DTXC8092 EXT2 Metal Idler .6415 inches in diameter

Since the metal EXT2 Idler was only .002 inches difference from the original ST idler...in the gearbox it went...I was amazed...a perfect fit AND even uses the same 5x10 bearings as the Evader ST! Feels smooth when turning top shaft.


So maybe this will help someone rebuild their tranny when they can't find the old Niro Evader ST Metal Idler. I have left Tower Hobbies a comment saying that a DTXC8092 Duratrax Idler Gear Metal & Shaft Evader EXT2 will work in place of the discontinued DTXC8081

DieHarder

I put the metal idler in with my BL diff, but I kept the ST Top Shaft because I liked how it was so universal. So far so good. No saw-tooth anything and it works great. I think I ran the metal idler with my original ST diff before I upgraded to the BL diff. It worked great as I recall. But not 100% sure on that. I know it works with the BL diff and ST top shaft, to sum it up.

I can't find the aluminum idler for the Nitro ST either. I'm just going to guess that a EXT2 metal idler will work fine in the Nitro tranny.

I found out today that the Nitro ST spur works on the electric Evader ST. It seems to be super easy to switch to 32P if you have an ST top shaft... Just a 32P spur and pinion. I'm still waiting on like 4 more packages to complete my Evader rebuild...

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

Well, yeah, the 'vader ST is old as the hills! And DTX hasn't made a nitro Evader since before I got into the hobby. Fortunately a lot of the parts are interchangeable. There was an incompatability issue with the gearboxes....I don't remember off the top of my head...was it the BL vs the EXT2 case? Nate?

That metal diff gear ..... always out when you really need one. Cripes, you'd think by now, Tower and DTX would have a handle on their inventory such that they'd KNOW when they're getting low on stock and order appropriately. That diff gear was our Savior when the BL model came out (then quickly disappeared). But they screwed the pooch, opting for a Castle-made motor system, which made the price of the BL model too pricey compared to the competition. And within' a year, the Evader BL was gone. But at least it got us the diff we all needed. Jeez, if they'd just include that diff with the EXT2.4 and used better-quality pins, the Evader would be truly "brushless ready, and able" .

DieHarder

The issue with the gearboxes is between the ST and EXT gearboxes. The ST differential is thinner than the EXT/BL/EXT2 differentials because it's a ball diff. The EXT/BL/EXT2 diff is a planetary diff and because of it's style, it has the case side plates that hold everything inside the diff. The plates are #12 in the exploded view below:



Those plates make the diff about 1/8" wider than the ST diff. In the exploded view below, you can see the style of the Ball diff:




Because the EXT/BL/EXT2 diff is wider, they made a wider gearbox. Because of the wider gearbox, they made a wider rear chassis plate. The ST gearbox and rear chassis plate are not interchangeable with the EXT/EXT2/BL gearbox and rear chassis plate. (The EXT/EXT2 have a different rear chassis plate than the BL to allow for a wheelie bar)

That is why the EXT/BL/EXT2 diff will not fit in the ST gearbox and the ST diff will flop around in the EXT/BL/EXT2 gearbox. The idler and top shaft on all four models are interchangeable though. Only the lower part of the EXT/BL/EXT2 gearbox is wider.

I hope all that makes sense.

I use eBay a lot, so when Tower or Amain is out of stock, someone on eBay usually has one at the same or cheaper price. I did some research awhile ago on the EXT2.4 and came to the conclusion that it is all the bad things about the Evader in one model. Don't buy it, it's a really cheap EXT2.

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

All very well-put, Nate, thanks.

But I am, and I'm sure others are, interested in that last statement, and what you found out in your research about the EXT2.4 Why do you say it's a cheap EXT2? Did DTX significantly change something? I mean, with certain exceptions, all parts are interchangeable, right? They don't list parts separately do they?
I'm cornfused.

DieHarder

I made a mistake. I meant to say "a really cheap BL" but I realize that would be the EXT2, which is what this is, just a different version. What I mean by, it has all the bad things about the Evader in one model is, they kept a lot of bad designs and materials that older and newer have. They even added a bad design or two, like why self tapping screws?! That is just gonna ruin the threads after awhile and strip them out. Or, they claim it's waterproof, but used a Sprint cheapo ESC, which has a low output. As for some of the other bad things they brought to the new EXT2.4:

Plastic bodied shocks - Does is really cost that much more to make them out of aluminum?
Stock tires - Wear down really fast and are garbage.
Plastic diff - Why not the Evader BL diff? As stated before, it was the Evader's savior, but they didn't use it!
Differential bushings - What's wrong with bearings?!
Shock Caps - Great they are aluminum. But wasn't there something else on the shocks that needed to be aluminum instead?

A couple good things:

Metal EXT2 idler - That's good.
ST Top Shaft - Glad to see a good design put to use. It helps keep the Top Shaft available for ST owners.
Costs $169.98 - You get SOME bang for your buck.

The way I see it, there are currently way better options than the Evader EXT2.4 that cost less and are better in design, quality, and performance. That's just my 2 cents. I'm not saying I hate my Evader, I'm just saying I will probably get something else for my next vehicle. For me, I'm thinking 1/8 Buggy...

RustyUs

This IMO or my $.02 on Duratrax brand and how the parent company puts money into research and development/marketing.

Now I know why the Duratrax Evader line...Duratrax vehicles in general....is not as popular as it once was. Has anyone seen the Tower Hobbies connection to Duratrax brand? Hobbico "is" Tower Hobbies and Hobbico's Family Tree is incredible if you look at it. Hobbico brands list is HUGE! They own distributing rights Team Durango; ARRma; Axial; HPI Racing, and Thunder Tiger..that's just the tip of the list.

So the way I see it...if you want an updated truck with the latest technology, you have to buy one of the brands listed above...but still, you are buying into the whole Hobbico scheme of things. They are putting more resources into the other brands to sell products. And, If I am not mistaken, Thunder Tiger owns Associated...Hobbico owns rights to distribute Thunder Tiger.

RustyUs

I have such a great time running my Duratrax Evader ST Pro (with brushless/lipo power handling upgrades) that I haven't even unboxed three Associated vehicles yet. That's how good, I think, the ST/EXT/DT/BX are in my book.

I would be first in line for a 2014 Evader ST Revival: Stretch out a composite chassis like the other big names did; use Brushless Evader power handling tranny; Big Bore shocks; tweek the arms/shock mounts, and put a "cab forward" body on(not my favorite change in modern ST changes), then put it in kit form...my first thought of what it would look like is...



I'm dreaming again....

RustyUs

Since the last post I made about the discontinued idler, I would move on to the ball diff issue I have on a spare tranny. The wife is taking her Sunday afternoon nap...I head to the garage to tinker.

While taking apart the ST gearbox for pictures for a post, I noticed what felt like a flat spot in or on something in the diff (must be why it hasn't been used since 2011). I'm taking it apart; degreasing rings/balls/thrust bearing, and looking for something to slap me in the face showing me the problem. Everything looks fine...rings show no grooves; balls feel smooth thrust bearings feel smooth. I get in my pit box and pull out a zip lock bag of balls (that I saved from my buggy racing days way back when). I replaced the diff with the balls from the zip lock bag, and relubed the diff/regrease thrust bearing. Reassembled the diff to find out that the problem has not gotten any better than before.

I repeated the process three times...about to give up and chuck the tranny into the concrete wall.

I remembered I had some stuff selling online, and in that stuff was a Evader diff rebuild kit..long story short...new balls for the diff, and new balls for the thrust bearing. PRESTO! Smooth diff action again!

I guess me trying to be frugal is the moral of the story...Always have good balls to keep the action going smoothly.

DieHarder

What vehicle is that in the pics on your 2 of 3 posts?

I had no idea Hobbico owned Axial, HPI, or Thunder Tiger. That blows my mind... lol

I'm starting to see the picture now. It's like there are two main RC companies. Hobbico and Horizon Hobby. Between the two, you get many of the major names in RC.

If a 2014 ST or BL that had the features you posted above came out, I would do some comparing to what I have, and maybe pull the trigger if the price was right. Otherwise I have my heart set on a 1/8 4WD buggy.

I had diff stripping issues along with the flat spots in the diff when I had my old ST tranny. After replacing approximately 6 diff gears, I decided to do the upgrade to the BL diff. I never fixed the flat spots, but I would suspect that it was from worn balls. Maybe the ones you used to replace them were the wrong size or were already worn? That or it was the thrust bearing balls.

Sounds like you have that same frustrated-throwing things temper I do. lol

cumquat

hobbico does not own hpi or thunder tiger, nor half of the other brands listed on their website under "our brands". they merely have distribution rights in select markets. they have distribution rights for thunder tiger in the US and hpi in Scandinavia. that said, they do own axial, duratrax, o'donnell, durango, revell, estes, cox and greatplanes (hobbico is actually the result of greatplanes and tower hobbies merging). you are right though, thunder tiger bought associated some time ago. to my knowledge, the only one of those actually started by hobbico is duratrax! they bought everything else.

RustyUs

My bad...own distributing rights

Yes they control what they want to distribute...

sorry for any confusion