Noob speaking advice
09-03-2012, 12:46 PM
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Noob speaking advice
I am new to this stuff and have 2 neighbors with hip savage trucks. I am thinking of buying an electro off road rc car and wanted to ask a few questions:
1. What is difference between truggy and 4x4 truck? Which is more bash proof?
2. Besides hpi is there another brands that I should consider for fast and durable off road rc?
3. What RC off roader is most durable and fastest?
4. Is there a beginner primer to learn about speeds, battery power, duration before recharge, 3c, 2c etc
5. What upgrades should be considered to make an off road RC bulletproof?
1. What is difference between truggy and 4x4 truck? Which is more bash proof?
2. Besides hpi is there another brands that I should consider for fast and durable off road rc?
3. What RC off roader is most durable and fastest?
4. Is there a beginner primer to learn about speeds, battery power, duration before recharge, 3c, 2c etc
5. What upgrades should be considered to make an off road RC bulletproof?
09-03-2012, 06:12 PM
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RE: Noob speaking advice
1. Truggy; A mix between a truck and a buggy. The truck is more bashproof.
2. A great brand is Team Losi, Traxxas' cars aren't that exceptional.
3. The fastest and most durable would be a XXX-SCT ready to run edition. http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...t-Course-Truck
4. There is not really a guide to it; RC is something you discover things with yourself.
5. The XXX-SCT is pretty durable out of the box. For the brushed RC Setup, you should be fine. As you break things, replace the broken pieces with aluminum parts.
09-03-2012, 06:33 PM
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RE: Noob speaking advice
collectors point 1 is correct. point 2 trsxxas is good there is other brands out there look at your local hobby shop and see what brands they support. point 3 is a good one point 4 is very true ppoint 5 i would disagree with the aluminum parts, they seem to break other parts.
09-03-2012, 06:34 PM
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RE: Noob speaking advice
ORIGINAL: joehervey1984
you can go with traxxas there is alot of parts for them pretty much everyone i have come across sells parts for traxxas trucks/cars.
you can go with traxxas there is alot of parts for them pretty much everyone i have come across sells parts for traxxas trucks/cars.
he is in SWITZERLAND from his location so that is probably not the case, as I hear traxxas is no where near as big over there as it is here
Answers to question
1)
Truggies have center diffs, they have low center of gravity (shortened to COG from here out), and are 4wd trucks
As collector said they are based on buggies, and due to their COG being low they can take turns faster.MT's generally have no center diff, and a high COG so they can't take turns that fast (like the savages you mentioned)
SCT's(Short Course Truck) are more a scaled looking truck
Stadium Trucks are similar to Truggies except they have no center differential or a wing
2) In Europe brands Hong Nor, Hobao (both sold as OFNA in the states so if you see someone mention OFNA truck its one of those 2 brands), Tamiya (can be very pricey though),
3)I'd guess for the price from what I heard about it the Hobao LX2e its a 1/8th buggy
4) Foxy will probably copy and paste his guide in its a pretty long read. Basically though C is a multiplier to determine its current capabilities.
5) Varies on RC. Most RC's I've owned need aluminum knuckles, and C-hubs. Out of the 24ish I have I think I own maybe 6 that don't have them. Outside that it usually varies RC to RC some need aluminum shock towers, some (like the LX2e) need aluminum chassis braces. Some you will never make bulletproof no matter what you do or how much you sink in.
09-03-2012, 11:02 PM
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RE: Noob speaking advice
ORIGINAL: joehervey1984
you can go with traxxas there is alot of parts for them pretty much everyone i have come across sells parts for traxxas trucks/cars.
you can go with traxxas there is alot of parts for them pretty much everyone i have come across sells parts for traxxas trucks/cars.
EDIT: Oops, Syco beat me to it.
09-03-2012, 11:14 PM
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RE: Noob speaking advice
To the OP, and to reinforce the rest of Syco's post...
1) Strongest are 1/8th buggies, closely followed by 1/8th truggies. Fastest are 1/8th buggies, closely followed by 1/8th truggies. Most versatile are 1/8th truggies, followed by 1/8th or 1/10th monster trucks. Best handling are 1/8th buggoies, closely followed by 1/8th truggies. Basically, 1/8th truggies are 1/8th buggies which are a bit wider, longer and have bigger tires.
2) That depends how much you want to spend. Bear in mind, in Europe a good electric truggy will cost you at least 1000 euros. There are much better brands than HPI. HPI is a brand for people who are coming into the hobby first time. Some of their stuff is good, but a racing brand (such as Xray/Mugen/Losi/Kyosho etc) will be much much better for not much more money. The HPI Vorza buggy for instance, is a great car, but needs quite a few upgrades to be 'bash-proof'. An Xray XB808E is a MUCH better car and needs no upgrades whatsoever, however, you cannot buy it ready to run, you will have to build it and buy electronics separately. If you have the money to spare, this is the way to go, you will end up with a much better car.
3) The Xray XB808E at the moment is the highest quality (and by proxy the most durable) car available as a ready electric chassis and is certainly AS durable as any other car out there, it is also a purebred race machine which could take you to the World Championships if your skills are up to the task. There are many cars that are nearly as durable for cheaper (Syco mentioned the OFNA LX2e, very cheap, very strong), but nothing to touch the Xray overall in my opinion. Xray is also a European brand and well supported here.
4) See below
5) As Syco said it depends on the RC. If you buy a 500 euro race kit, it will not need any upgrades. If you buy a cheap car, it will need lots of upgrades. The best way to upgrade is to simply do so as you break stuff. Also, resist the temptation to change everything to aluminum, it does NOT make a car stronger, it just makes it stiffer and heavier, neither of which is ideal.
1) Strongest are 1/8th buggies, closely followed by 1/8th truggies. Fastest are 1/8th buggies, closely followed by 1/8th truggies. Most versatile are 1/8th truggies, followed by 1/8th or 1/10th monster trucks. Best handling are 1/8th buggoies, closely followed by 1/8th truggies. Basically, 1/8th truggies are 1/8th buggies which are a bit wider, longer and have bigger tires.
2) That depends how much you want to spend. Bear in mind, in Europe a good electric truggy will cost you at least 1000 euros. There are much better brands than HPI. HPI is a brand for people who are coming into the hobby first time. Some of their stuff is good, but a racing brand (such as Xray/Mugen/Losi/Kyosho etc) will be much much better for not much more money. The HPI Vorza buggy for instance, is a great car, but needs quite a few upgrades to be 'bash-proof'. An Xray XB808E is a MUCH better car and needs no upgrades whatsoever, however, you cannot buy it ready to run, you will have to build it and buy electronics separately. If you have the money to spare, this is the way to go, you will end up with a much better car.
3) The Xray XB808E at the moment is the highest quality (and by proxy the most durable) car available as a ready electric chassis and is certainly AS durable as any other car out there, it is also a purebred race machine which could take you to the World Championships if your skills are up to the task. There are many cars that are nearly as durable for cheaper (Syco mentioned the OFNA LX2e, very cheap, very strong), but nothing to touch the Xray overall in my opinion. Xray is also a European brand and well supported here.
4) See below
ORIGINAL: Foxy
Electric guidelines:
Motor
Motors come in 2 basic varieties; brushed and brushless. Brushed motors are older technology and are only really used still in classes that dictate you must use a brushed motor, and other applications that require very smooth throttle response and low speed control, such as Crawling and Drifting. Brushed motors need maintenance every so often, changing the brushes when they wear down and sometimes shaving a layer of metal off the commutator (using a 'comm lathe') to provide a better surface for the brushes.
Brushless motors are the newer technology, requiring no maintenance and delivering significantly more speed and power for the same ratings.
Both types of motor are rated in 'turns', with higher turns being more torque and less speed, and lower turns the opposite. Most brushless motors are also referred to as having a specific KV rating. This is a measure of their maximum rpm per volt. So, for example, if you see a brushless 10.5 turn 4000kv motor, it will turn 4000rpm for every volt supplied at maximum throttle. So the max speed (in rpm) of that motor on a 7.4v lipo battery will be 7.4*4000. In general consider that 3000kv or less is a fairly slow motor for high torque, and a 9000kv motor is a very fast, less torquey motor. The current a motor pulls on startup and under load (amps) goes up with the KV.
Speed controllers
Speed controllers also come in the brushed and brushless variety, indicating what kind of motor they can accept. There are many speed controls which can be switched or switch automatically between brushless and brushed operation. Running the wrong type of speed controller for the motor or running the wrong setting will destroy the speed controller and/or the motor in pretty short order.
The next things to look at on a speed controller are voltage and current ratings, which must not be exceeded. Often a speed controller (hereafter referred to as an ESC) will say first how many volts you can pump through it. Though this is often expressed in how many cells you can use (the number of cells your battery has). NimH old style batteries composed of a number of SubC cells are 1.2V per cell, and Lithium Polymer (lipo) batteries are rated at 3.7v per cell. You may see an ESC say '10 cell/3s max' This means 10 nimh cells (10*1.2=12v), or 3 lipo cells ('S' always refers to lipo cells) (3x3.7=11.1). Or the same speed controller may say 12v max. Once you have identified that the ESC can handle your batteries, you need to look at the current rating (maximum AMPS) and make sure your motor draw will not exceed that. Most motors will say how many amps they draw 'under load' and 'burst'. As long as those amps do not exceed the 'continuous' and 'burst' amp ratings of the ESC, you are good to go. As a general rule of thumb, 25A ESCs are for micro scale stuff, 40A ESCs will do for most 1/10th stuff, 60A ESCs are for the heavy duty (very high kv) 1/10th stuff, 80A for light duty 1/8th stuff, 120A for midrange 1/8th scale stuff, and 150-200A for the really big 1/8th scale stuff.
Batteries
Nimh batteries (made up of smaller 1.2v cells) need to be maintained. After a couple months being flat, they will rarely take a full charge again, at least not without careful resurrection using a complex cycling charger for many hours, apart from that, decent nimh cells should be fine for almost all your current needs, though cannot reach the performance of lipo.
Lipo batteries are a little more trouble, but overall lower maintenance. The thing about Lipos is that they could start a fire if mistreated. Mistreated means; overcharged, overdischarged, badly damaged. These batteries must never be allowed to drop below 2.9v per cell. If this happens, first of all there is the fire risk if high current is still being pulled through it, but also a battery overdischarged in this way will never take a full charge again, and may visibly 'swell'. Therefore it's critical when using lipo batteries to use a speed control that has an automatic lipo cutoff, ideally one which you can set. When I have the option, I always set my lipo cutoff to 3.0v per cell. (so when a 2s (2 cell) 7.4v battery reaches 6.0v, the ESC stops the power to prevent battery damage). These batteries also need to be regularly balanced to make sure that the batteries stay at the same voltage per cell so that the lipo cutoff works properly. The danger of an unbalanced battery, is that eventually, if one cell in the battery were to fall to 2.5v, yet the other was still at 3.6v, that wouldn't be low enough (combined=6.1v) to activate the cutoff, but the first cell is already damaged beyond repair, having dropped too low. Balancing your batteries prevents these voltage mismatches. Most lipo chargers include a balancing charge option, which will do this automatically.
The good thing about Lipos is that they charge fast (can be charged in an hour at the most, and many can be fully charged in half an hour), they do not lose much charge over time sitting around, they deliver incredible amounts of current, and last a very long time. Despite the extra care, these batteries are VASTLY superior to the other type, and I strongly recommend getting some and getting used to their idiosyncracies. Dont be put off by the extra care they require, follow these simple rules and they are very easy to own and will serve you well for many many charge cycles.
Charge and discharge rating... When you buy a lipo battery, as well as the number of cells (2S, 3S, 4S, etc, which determine the voltage, 7.4, 11.1, and 14.8 respectively), and the duration expressed in mAh (milliamp hours), you will also see a discharge rating, expressed in 'C', for example, '2s 7.4v 5000mAh 25C'. This means it is a 2 cell 7.4v battery which will last for 5000miliamp hours and the maximum discharge rate is 25C. The C rating is an expression of how much continuous current (Amps) the battery can deliver safely (exceeding this can damage the battery and/or the ESC). The C rating is calculated based on the capacity. So, 25C on a 5000mAh battery is 25x5 (remember 5000mA=5A), so this battery can deliver 125A of maximum continous current. A 40C battery of the same capacity would be able to deliver 200A of continuous current (40x5A=200A). Once again, it is important to match the battery to what your motor and ESC are capable of. To be honest, most batteries of 4000mAh or more at 20C or more are good enough for most applicatoins, it only starts to be a problem in the really high power 1/8th applications, where a 2650kv motor pulls say 150A regularly. You would need to make sure that the C rating of your battery multiplied by its capacity makes at least 150 in order not to risk damage to the battery and/or ESC
The same applies when charging. You may see a battery say it can be charged at 1C or 2C. Lets take the 5000mAh example again. 1C as we said=5A, 2C=10A etc. So a 'Charge at 2C' battery with 5000mAh capacity can be charged at 10A maximum.
Electric guidelines:
Motor
Motors come in 2 basic varieties; brushed and brushless. Brushed motors are older technology and are only really used still in classes that dictate you must use a brushed motor, and other applications that require very smooth throttle response and low speed control, such as Crawling and Drifting. Brushed motors need maintenance every so often, changing the brushes when they wear down and sometimes shaving a layer of metal off the commutator (using a 'comm lathe') to provide a better surface for the brushes.
Brushless motors are the newer technology, requiring no maintenance and delivering significantly more speed and power for the same ratings.
Both types of motor are rated in 'turns', with higher turns being more torque and less speed, and lower turns the opposite. Most brushless motors are also referred to as having a specific KV rating. This is a measure of their maximum rpm per volt. So, for example, if you see a brushless 10.5 turn 4000kv motor, it will turn 4000rpm for every volt supplied at maximum throttle. So the max speed (in rpm) of that motor on a 7.4v lipo battery will be 7.4*4000. In general consider that 3000kv or less is a fairly slow motor for high torque, and a 9000kv motor is a very fast, less torquey motor. The current a motor pulls on startup and under load (amps) goes up with the KV.
Speed controllers
Speed controllers also come in the brushed and brushless variety, indicating what kind of motor they can accept. There are many speed controls which can be switched or switch automatically between brushless and brushed operation. Running the wrong type of speed controller for the motor or running the wrong setting will destroy the speed controller and/or the motor in pretty short order.
The next things to look at on a speed controller are voltage and current ratings, which must not be exceeded. Often a speed controller (hereafter referred to as an ESC) will say first how many volts you can pump through it. Though this is often expressed in how many cells you can use (the number of cells your battery has). NimH old style batteries composed of a number of SubC cells are 1.2V per cell, and Lithium Polymer (lipo) batteries are rated at 3.7v per cell. You may see an ESC say '10 cell/3s max' This means 10 nimh cells (10*1.2=12v), or 3 lipo cells ('S' always refers to lipo cells) (3x3.7=11.1). Or the same speed controller may say 12v max. Once you have identified that the ESC can handle your batteries, you need to look at the current rating (maximum AMPS) and make sure your motor draw will not exceed that. Most motors will say how many amps they draw 'under load' and 'burst'. As long as those amps do not exceed the 'continuous' and 'burst' amp ratings of the ESC, you are good to go. As a general rule of thumb, 25A ESCs are for micro scale stuff, 40A ESCs will do for most 1/10th stuff, 60A ESCs are for the heavy duty (very high kv) 1/10th stuff, 80A for light duty 1/8th stuff, 120A for midrange 1/8th scale stuff, and 150-200A for the really big 1/8th scale stuff.
Batteries
Nimh batteries (made up of smaller 1.2v cells) need to be maintained. After a couple months being flat, they will rarely take a full charge again, at least not without careful resurrection using a complex cycling charger for many hours, apart from that, decent nimh cells should be fine for almost all your current needs, though cannot reach the performance of lipo.
Lipo batteries are a little more trouble, but overall lower maintenance. The thing about Lipos is that they could start a fire if mistreated. Mistreated means; overcharged, overdischarged, badly damaged. These batteries must never be allowed to drop below 2.9v per cell. If this happens, first of all there is the fire risk if high current is still being pulled through it, but also a battery overdischarged in this way will never take a full charge again, and may visibly 'swell'. Therefore it's critical when using lipo batteries to use a speed control that has an automatic lipo cutoff, ideally one which you can set. When I have the option, I always set my lipo cutoff to 3.0v per cell. (so when a 2s (2 cell) 7.4v battery reaches 6.0v, the ESC stops the power to prevent battery damage). These batteries also need to be regularly balanced to make sure that the batteries stay at the same voltage per cell so that the lipo cutoff works properly. The danger of an unbalanced battery, is that eventually, if one cell in the battery were to fall to 2.5v, yet the other was still at 3.6v, that wouldn't be low enough (combined=6.1v) to activate the cutoff, but the first cell is already damaged beyond repair, having dropped too low. Balancing your batteries prevents these voltage mismatches. Most lipo chargers include a balancing charge option, which will do this automatically.
The good thing about Lipos is that they charge fast (can be charged in an hour at the most, and many can be fully charged in half an hour), they do not lose much charge over time sitting around, they deliver incredible amounts of current, and last a very long time. Despite the extra care, these batteries are VASTLY superior to the other type, and I strongly recommend getting some and getting used to their idiosyncracies. Dont be put off by the extra care they require, follow these simple rules and they are very easy to own and will serve you well for many many charge cycles.
Charge and discharge rating... When you buy a lipo battery, as well as the number of cells (2S, 3S, 4S, etc, which determine the voltage, 7.4, 11.1, and 14.8 respectively), and the duration expressed in mAh (milliamp hours), you will also see a discharge rating, expressed in 'C', for example, '2s 7.4v 5000mAh 25C'. This means it is a 2 cell 7.4v battery which will last for 5000miliamp hours and the maximum discharge rate is 25C. The C rating is an expression of how much continuous current (Amps) the battery can deliver safely (exceeding this can damage the battery and/or the ESC). The C rating is calculated based on the capacity. So, 25C on a 5000mAh battery is 25x5 (remember 5000mA=5A), so this battery can deliver 125A of maximum continous current. A 40C battery of the same capacity would be able to deliver 200A of continuous current (40x5A=200A). Once again, it is important to match the battery to what your motor and ESC are capable of. To be honest, most batteries of 4000mAh or more at 20C or more are good enough for most applicatoins, it only starts to be a problem in the really high power 1/8th applications, where a 2650kv motor pulls say 150A regularly. You would need to make sure that the C rating of your battery multiplied by its capacity makes at least 150 in order not to risk damage to the battery and/or ESC
The same applies when charging. You may see a battery say it can be charged at 1C or 2C. Lets take the 5000mAh example again. 1C as we said=5A, 2C=10A etc. So a 'Charge at 2C' battery with 5000mAh capacity can be charged at 10A maximum.
