rustlerbasher

I am trying to revive my old Rustler. When I say old, I mean it... it came with a mechanical speed control mounted on a steering servo for the throttle when i first got it. Since then, I ran it with a Mamba Max 5700 combo (first version) in it on a basic 6 cell Nimh battery. Later I sort-of lost interest and ended up selling the Mamba system. Lately (years later) I have been thinking that it would be fun to get the truck up and running again. I'm hoping to spend a maximum of about $175 on getting it ready to bash again.

It has most of the supporting mods it needs for brushless bashing:

RPM wide front bumper
RPM bearing carriers with upgraded bearings
MIP CVD's
Steel internal transmission gears
HS645MG steering servo (way overkill, but I robbed it from my old E-Maxx before I sold it and it works very well)

What I'm looking for:

Reasonably cheap brushless system that is capable of accelerating the truck to ~35mph or so with reasonably long run times. ~$100 or less

I'm leaning towards getting the castle sidewinder 3 combo, but am not sure which kV rated motor I should go with, and will need appropriate gearing. (I was thinking 4600kV with 20/86 gearing for offroad bashing, using Dirt Hawg 2.2 rear tires)

I've read that LiPo's are all the rage now, and am looking for 2 2s LiPo batteries and a compatible charger that will offer good run times and will not cause problems with the brushless system. ~$75

My questions are:

Does anyone have any suggestions on the brushless system? Can I get an equal quality system for less $$ with another brand (EzRun??)? Is there something else that would be better for bashing? Something else that will allow for longer run times? Ultimately I'd like to spend less than 100 on the brushless system.

Where can I get the best value batteries and charger? Looking to spend ~$75 on two 2s batteries and a charger. Is this possible now? I know this would have been laughed at back when I was into RC more, but I think prices on LiPo's have come down since then. Would I be better off getting one battery that is higher quality/lasts longer?

Which batteries? I know how the mAh rating works with batteries; obviously higher is better for run time. The C rating is what I'm not too sure about. I assume that a lower C rating will make the charge last longer with less burst power. I don't want to go too low for the esc/motor, though and still want to be able to do ~35mph for good sized jumps. Also, it needs to fit into a rustler chassis (I am willing to dremel it a bit, if needed). I have no problem with soldering connectors and will probably use deans.

Thanks for the help! and FYI I'll probably do most of my shopping on e-bay, unless another site has better deals.

Northern Mike

Castle Creations mambo systems are all the rave over on the traxxas forum before I got banned for mentioning hobbyking and turnigy (products I have).
I would say for the motor, stay in the 2500-3900kv range. Higher kV rating doesn't have to torque to hit the higher speeds and torque is just that much better for bashing. Lower kV also generally means lower amperage ESC is needed, which brings the cost down. The castle creations sidewinder 3 combo is a pretty decent price at a hair over $100. Amazon has it at about $108.
Beware of eBay. I've been trolling it for a bit and have found it can be more money then amazon or even big box stores.
Picking a motor/ESC can be a long and confusing ordeal. I just went through it today trying to find a motor to match my existing ESC that came as a combo with my not so good motor.

For lipo batteries, always use the formula of C rating * battery Ah rating > ESC amperage.
As an example, my ESC is 60A. My 2s battery is 20c 5000mah. My 2s batter can Handle a ESC of 100a draw, so I am in good shape.
The charger I use is a IMAX 6b. Its reasonably priced and charges every RC battery I will ever use in the for seeable further.

I picked up my charger and batteries at hobbyking. I can't speak for their other products, but their batteries have been great and the best bang for the buck that I have found. I can't speak about their motors or ESC. I've not seen a lot of good reviews on them so I went with another motor and a already owned ESC.

Northern Mike

One thing I forgot to mention that bit me in the butt is watch the motor can size. In general, a brushless motor that is about 36mm x 50mm is equal to a 540 can and is a proper 1/10 motor. AVOID motors with built in cooling fins. I got caught as the leopard 3930kv I bought was listed as a 540 but is really a 380 with cooling fins to make it the bigger can (and less actual motor). Needless to any, my speed runs across hard as concrete snow (thanks to the mild weather and previous rain) produced no snow dust, so my motor had no extra cooling and burnt out mid way through my 3s 2200mah battery charge.
When it comes to poles, 4 is generally more torque then 2, but will have a bit slower acceleration from stop and will require an ESC with more amperage.

rustlerbasher

Thanks for the suggestions! I'm not too worried about the 4600kV not having enough torque, since it will be the newer 1406 motor and the rusty only has 2.2 Dirt Hawgs on the back... Is the gearing I suggested (20/86) pretty good? Does anyone else have this set-up already?

Also, I have been reading into chargers a little bit, and it seems as though this one is pretty good: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._GENUINE_.html

Has anyone had a bad experience with this charger (other than getting the knock-off brand by accident)?

Also, how can I determine whether or not a battery will fit in the chassis before I buy it? I'm fairly certain that I will be looking for a 5000 mAh 20C battery (or two).

Northern Mike

Worth trying it out and watch with a thermal gun the temps. On an 2s it will do about 34.5mph.

I have a set of 2.8" dirt hawgs and I hate them. 2.2 might be better, but hard to say. I couldn't get traction on carpet or stone tile.

As for the charger, I have that exact charger from them. I use it daily and love it. I had a hard time finding one that had a built in power supply which that one does. You'll want to confirm your battery connector type on the battery and ESC. My battery the same specs as yours had banana plugs. I picked up a pack of 10 plugs when I ordered and did have to do a bit of soldering.

On figment... I have the turnigy 5000mah battery which is about 1-2mm too wide for OEM chassis. I will shave it with a rotary tool once the kids permit me the time. I've been told I am not the first to have to do it and it will be a quick and easy job.

rustlerbasher

I think I'm going to just get one of the Robinson 6-packs of pinions, so I'm sure I can find something that will work. Thanks for the info on the charger! I think I'll get that one. Still looking into the batteries though. Also, I want to make sure I can actually find the truck itself when I go back to my dad's house before I pull the trigger on buying the stuff. I'll try to update this thread when I get everything going! (in a week or so)

Northern Mike

I'd suggest picking your ESC and motor before selecting your batteries. That way you will have batteries that are suited for your needs. As for the charger, I love mine and can't find any thing it lacks for what I need. It does my lipo batteries (covered up to 6s) as well as my older nickel batteries. It charges with balancing my 3s 2200mah in an hour without pushing it beyond 3A. It can go higher but I haven't needed to push it.

Northern Mike

The attached excel file (zipped so the forum would accept it), might be of interest and help for gearing.
Its a work in progress I had started to help me with setting up my gearing. Go to sheet 2 and edit the values to match your motor, battery voltage, and tire diameter (in inches). On sheet 1, you will find the common pinion gears and spur gears (48P which is stock) for the Rustler (slash and some other Traxxas RCs). Page 1 is sorted by lowest gear ratio at the top, and highest at the bottom. The pinion and spur gear columns are filterable so you can remove what gears you do not have on hand and it will show you what gear ratios you have to play with. The lines in red are the ones I noticed didn't actually fit in the stock gear box (i.e I couldn't run the 16/76 gears as they wouldn't reach).

Its nothing fancy, but it does help if you have a couple spur and pinion gears to play with. I will be adding theoretical speeds (MPH and KMPH) eventually.

rustlerbasher

Nice. I will check it out.

Northern Mike

I have done one better...
It now includes theoretical speeds in metric and imperial with tire ballooning also calculated.
Attached is the new excel file.

If you find any errors let me know. I know there are a few pinions missing and probably a few gear combinations that should be marked in red as not fitting, but I haven't gotten to doing the final touches to it. Like I said, work in progress.

Sangramento

I'm also looking for a LiPo battery. I have a Rustler with a sidewinder 3/ 5700kv motor. I was wondering if I bought myself a 3s LiPo and changed the punch control settings then maybe the truck wouldn't be so uncontrollable? and maybe it won't overheat?

Northern Mike

It might be worth starting your own thread in order not to confuse the two issues.
As for your questions...
Are you overheating now?
Is it currently uncontrollable or is this a concern for when you go to the higher voltage?
What spur and pinion gear are you currently running?

Northern Mike

I just noticed your other thread. I will provide you info in there to help out

rustlerbasher

Update:

So I found my old rustler sitting all dilapidated in a cardboard box with a bunch of my other old RC stuff. After bringing it home and seeing exactly what it needed, I have ordered the following for it:

Castle Sidewinder SV3 with 4600kV 1406 motor combo
Replacement MIP CVD bone for the one I broke a long time ago
Fly Sky GT3B digital transmitter and receiver combo (the old one was 27Mhz)
Thunder AC680 Professional Balance Charger
2x Venom 2s 7.4V LiPo 5000mAh 25c
Deans connectors

I went a little over budget, but made up the difference using a sears gift card I got from the holidays to buy the batteries. (AtomikRC sells Venom RC batteries through Sears, apparently...) I already have 18/84 gearing laying around, which may limit top end a little bit, but should help it run cool and make it torquey for bashing, so I'm going to try that to start with. I also got a Go-Pro Hero3 from the holidays, so hopefully I'll be able to somehow attach that to the truck and get some onboard bashing vids!

Cheers.

Sangramento

My rustler tends to overheat with the 5700kv and 18/86 gearing. That's probably because I really need some new bearings all around. I'm still using a mix of old 5x7 bearings and bushings lol. Oh and my 2.8 trenchers don't help at all either.

That 4600kv should work great for bashing even with a 20t pinion.

rustlerbasher

Yeah, I'm thinking that I shouldn't see any heat issues since my tires are 2.2's, the kV rating is lower, and I have really smooth rolling 5x11 bearings/carriers on it. I'm hoping it won't have a tendency to flip itself over on it's lid when i hit the throttle... we'll see I guess.

Northern Mike

The higher kV needs to be geared down to not overheat. Those motors like to spin. You'll still have a decent speed geared down as the motor rpm is pretty high.
Hit up eBay for your bearings. I just picked up a 20 pack of a-bec3 bearings for about $20.

Get a wheelie bar.
Bearings do help as does the smaller tires (less ground clearance though). Spinning weight is also a factor to consider. Its added load when accelerating.

rustlerbasher

If I find the need for a wheelie bar, I will get one. I'm going to try it out first though.

rustlerbasher

While messing around with my truck today, I found that it is old enough to not have a slipper clutch... Do you guys think this will create a problem for the motor, or will it just make it more likely to strip a spur?

Northern Mike

I hear the pin on the inside of the gearbox on the same shaft is the weakest point. You may break that before stripping gears.

phmaximus

when i converted a old Rustler to brushles i striped the idler gear and later on the diff output yoke.

It turns out only the newer ones have the metal idler and diff housing gear

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

Dirt Hawgs on carpet and stone tile, and you expected to get any traction?? What part of "Dirt" didn't you get?

I would not recommend a 5700kv motor for off-roading. Too much top end, not enough torque. Motor tends to get hot. Unless the thing is geared to the moon or has big honkin' tires, I still contend that the "finned out" brushless motors like the EZrun 3650M work just fine in light, 2wd trucks like the Rustler or Evader, or any stadium truck. And the 35A EZrun combo with that motor (and program card) only runs $75. Been running that system in my Evaders for years. Run the same system in my Hyper 10TT, too.

rustlerbasher

I have actually previously upgraded the idler to the metal one. I guess we will see what lets go first... if anything. I just wanted to make sure that this wouldn't cause any damage to the motor itself. I assume not, but I'm not 100% sure on how brushless motors work on the inside.

As an update: I got all the parts and have them installed in the truck now. I just have to program the transmitter and receiver and ESC before I can take it for a quick test run!

Northern Mike

Brushless act a bit different then brushed. There is no electrical contact between the shaft and the body. Heat is really the only thing that can take a motor out from what I can see. When I popped my motor, I was originally thinking it was heat, but I'm wondering now about that. The shaft in brushless motors has the magnet attached to it. When my motor failed, it wasn't super hot, but the magnet wasn't magnetic any more.

For your slipper, eBay or Future Shop/Best Buy in Canada are your best bet. They aren't super expensive. Alternatively, be sure to watch your traction. You will want some tire slip on hard launch. I broke a handful of dogbones (drive shafts) on my turbo optima when I got the suspension dialed in and launched on grass or mordar sand.

rustlerbasher

Ok. I guess i'll look into getting a slipper. I also need to look into getting a wheelie bar I think... I tested it for about 2 seconds on the carpet in my living room and was able to get it to wheelie with no problem at like 2/3 throttle.