RC Electric Off-Road Trucks, Buggies, Truggies and more Discuss electric RC off-road, buggies & trucks here. Also discuss brushless motors, speed controllers aka ESC's, brushed motors, etc

Tamiya TL01 MLU

Reply
Old 06-17-2014, 03:57 PM
  #1
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Tamiya TL01 MLU

Hi There,

I've an old TL01 with some goodies installed. And now it's time for a "midlife update"!

I believe that I've most of the "must have" Hop-Ups for and update. Mine has ball bearings, oil shocks with tuned springs, rear ball diff, carbon shafts, 23T pinion, speed tuned gears, upper links and tie-rod set... Running a vintage Acoms AT-6 ESC with a Dynatech 02H and the most powerful battery I have is a 2400mAh Tamiya SP (NiCd).

So since I've been out of the RC world for the last 10 years or more I need your counseling/advice on my updates.

First, what should I do, repair my engine? New rotor (10 or 13 T) and bushes? Or go for something newer like a LRP V10 or TC3? higher on turns since I'm running high speed gears and pinion, right?
I've been looking into other options but I was avoiding going to something that would require a new ESC or a new battery charger, mine is a LRP Quadra Plus... Just trying to keep it light on the wallet!

If I keep the Dynatech engine and AT-6 ESC combo what batteries can I run?

Cheers

PS.: lots of thoughts, lots of doubts...
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 03:33 AM
  #2
phmaximus
 
phmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 6,607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Sounds cool... question for ya, what type of tl01 is it? A touring car, buggy or monstertruck??? And what type and size wheels are u running?

My first thought is the gearing sounds a little high, in fact with a 23t pinion and the tuned gear set it's the highest it will go.
it might be worth going back to a 19t pinion until u get a reliable setup because high gearing places more load on the motor and u might run into heat issues and the brushes won't last long.

generally with brushed motors, the lower the turn rating the higher the RPM is, and the higher the turn rating the more potential torque it will have. So ideally with a high geared setup u want more torque to combat the increased load. But u have to make sure it can handle the load ie. be a high enough turn rating not to over heat.

so the big thing is.... How low can u go.....(number of turns before it overheats)
phmaximus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 03:42 AM
  #3
phmaximus
 
phmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 6,607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

One problem.... Here is a video of my tl01b Baja King. It has a Tamiya sport tuned motor.... Problem. One of the brushes failed after about 5 packs.

now that was on a 19t pinion and the sport tuned motor is only a 27t with advanced timing. So I would nearly say be careful running anything under 27t.... But who knows it might of been a bad motor?

http://youtu.be/pKsg1ovzJJI
phmaximus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 03:45 AM
  #4
phmaximus
 
phmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 6,607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

My solution, BRUSHLESS!!! Lol

but as u can see full throttle is useless lol

http://youtu.be/5xNlVuntoDg
phmaximus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 10:12 AM
  #5
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi,

mine is a touring car, it used to run 22mm HPI X-Pattern tires but now it runs RIDE 24mm Pre-Cut Slick Tires.

All these years, even there was a time that I raced with friends at the weekends, never had heat problems with my Dynatech. Some times it would get pretty hot but always running, they say it's a 13T motor. But the batteries range wasn't that good.... 5 mins or so... If i recall correctly.

Can you point decent but not state of the art brushless kit? Something like good quality/performance for your bucks? Do the brushless run Ni** bats?
On brushless do I have the same limitations on number of turns as with a brushed?!

Cheers

Last edited by loucao_jr; 06-18-2014 at 10:16 AM.
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 01:38 AM
  #6
phmaximus
 
phmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 6,607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Ahhh... This is the off-road section.... Never mind

well been a touring car u can get away with a lot higher gearing because of its little wheels.

I think the biggest thing holding it back is the battery... If it's only lasting 5min or so it's safe to say that the battery is working very hard and the harder u work it the more volts it looses under load.

So ideally u need a more powerful battery, but I'm worried with a more powerful battery the motor will get hotter. So if u get a better battery keep a eye on temps and if it's hot lower the gearing slightly and re test.

I would recommend starting off with a decent battery, because after all that's where the power comes from.

have u though about swapping to a lipo?? They are just as cheap and u will see a good 30% power and top speed increase. U will also see longer runtimes and they are considerably lighter.

because of the old school battery compartment u can run a standard lipo, u need to run one that's the same shape as the old nimh packs.
somethink like a Venom 15085 2s 20c 4000mah would be ideal for about $35
then u would need a low voltage alarm, they can be found for as cheap as $3
lastly a digital charger, they start off at about $16 for a IMAX B6 clone.

Oh and the good thing with a new charger is u will be able to charge any type of batteries including ur old one aswell as been able to charge that lipo in under 1h20min
phmaximus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 02:01 AM
  #7
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Damn!! Posted in the wrong section!... Is there someone kind that can move this thread to the correct location?!
Continuing.. My batteries do get a bit hot, they've never cracked or or got leaky.
But what is a really hot battery and/or engine?

Changing to lipo?!.. Lipos That's something also new to me!! Could be a solution. Why do I need the Low voltage buzzer?!

And about the engine itself, rebuild or something new?

Always learning!!

Cheers
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 01:41 AM
  #8
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Mates,

What do you think of this combo for my TL01?
XeRun X5A Combo ( 8.5T 120A ESC)

Along with a couple of these


Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	tc-4500-sport-racing-45c-7-4v-competition-lipo-battery-pack-c-48265-d.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	40.0 KB
ID:	2008836  
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 03:27 AM
  #9
phmaximus
 
phmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 6,607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

That would do the job but its a little over kill.

does it matter if its sensored or sensorless?

because a cheaper option would be...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Free-Ship-...item35c4b6e062

Im not to sure about that battery, for the TL01 u need a rounded pack especially designed for older tamiya chassis's.

something like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Venom-20C-...item48685137b9
phmaximus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 04:52 AM
  #10
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I see... I'll look into your suggestion but from a European union country to avoid custom charges.

Regarding the battery, the one I've posted is also round, but I'll ask the seller if it fits my TL01/ old Tamiyas.

If it's sensored or sensorless I don't really know... From what I've read sensored would preferable, smoother and no cogging, that's why I was looking into that combo.

Thanks, cheers
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 05:48 AM
  #11
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

By the way, with a 4000 or 4500 Lipo what run times can I expect?
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 06:05 PM
  #12
DieHarder
 
DieHarder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Grand Haven, MI
Posts: 2,957
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

45min or so would be generous. I would figure around 35-40 minutes if you run her hard. Sensored is good for on-road cars. Don't let your battery temps get over 120 degrees.
DieHarder is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 04:41 AM
  #13
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi,

I've read that temp monitoring is essential!
So battery, 120F, Engine 180F and more or less the same for the ESC, am I right?

I believe with such long run times I wont' be needing to battery packs!

Thanks.

Cheers
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 05:27 AM
  #14
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Also read that there are a lot of Hobbywing fakes out there...

Please give your comments on both these to combos
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2613068686...84.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOBBYWING-...vip=true&rt=nc

Is there a way of knowing??
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 07:46 PM
  #15
phmaximus
 
phmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 6,607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Well the big thing is Motor KV. The KV rating is a multiplier that u time by the volts to give u the approximate RPM at that given volts.

generally u don't have to worry to much just as long as its in the ballpark range.

With the TL 01 it's very important because u only really have 3 gearing adjustments (6including tuned gear set)

if u want tell us how fast u want it? Then I can calculate what Motor KV range u would need.
phmaximus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 08:17 PM
  #16
phmaximus
 
phmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 6,607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Been a touring car u are not going to see the current draw and heat u can see in off-roaders and I'm very confident it's not going to be a issue.
Those batteries can supply a good 80a continuously where no way it would draw over 40a on take off....maybe even less
so I dare say the batteries wouldn't even get warm.

and providing u don't get a motor with a redicliously high or excessively low KV rating u shouldn't have any heat issues with the ESC or motor.

As as for sensored vs sensorless... Sensored is smoother ultimately, but most people wouldent be able to tell the difference.
the only real noticeable thing is (dependant on gearing, is with really slow speeds say 1km/h to 7km/h u can get some clogging. But this only happens at really low speeds with light throttle inputs. So if u were to pull the throttle trigger a bit more it would stop.

Or a easier way to put it is.... Sensorless motors don't like taking off from a standstill very slowly.
its kind of like a old school hotted up V8, they take a bit to get moving but when they are.... Wow

as u can see the sensored combos are very expensive, I'd nearly say the advantages of a slightly more consistent and smooth power delivery method would be outweighed by the limitations of the chassis. That extra money u would spend on a sensored combo over a sensorless combo would go along way on a newer tamiya chassis.

I recommend getting some decent lipo's and a charger to start with then a sensorless combo. Then if u want to get serious look at a new chassis then if u are really keen a sensored combo.... Novak make some nice racing combos that are worth a look
phmaximus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2014, 01:41 AM
  #17
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Humm I see!

How fast I want to go?! I would say at least faster then my vintage ESC + Motor combo ( Acoms + Dynatech).

Regarding the KVs of the motor, I should stay between 3000-4300Kv, Is that it?
I've noticed that most TL01 people normally use 10.5T motors, they choose this spec so they can use speed tuned gears and higher pinions without worries?

Does any ESC handle LiPos? Isn't this an issue? Or it's just a matter of using a battery buzzer?

I've checked with the seller and the battery that I've posted above does fit my TL01. But now there's no Hobbywing Ezrun combo in the EU, ebaywise.

Cheers
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2014, 03:21 AM
  #18
phmaximus
 
phmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 6,607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hard to days recharge to say? The turn rating is just so.... Different from manufacture to manufacture there is no current standard, generally I like to work with KV ratings. But I do know a Novak Ballistic 10.5t is 4,400kv

Say for example a 3000kv motor on a 2s 7.4v lipo will pull 22,200rpm
3000kv X 7.4v = 22,000rpm.

so from that we instantly know it's going to preform about the same as a Johnson 27t silver can brushed motor, but it will have the potential to produce more torque with out overheating as easily as a brushed motor does.

what about a 9t 4300kv ezrun motor...
4300kv X 7.4v = 31,820rpm

castle sidewinder...
5700 X 7.4v = 42,180rpm

and from that we can see a castle combo will be pulling twice the rpm of a stock tl01 but it will have bucket loads more torque... Problary to the point where max throttle would cause wheels pin at most speeds making it difficult to drive with out braking traction.
phmaximus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2014, 12:25 PM
  #19
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Oh! OK I see, so I can have two different motors with different number of turns but the same RPMs/KVs.

Thanks

Cheers
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 06:26 PM
  #20
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi,

Does this look like an original combo?!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B8-RC-ESC-...item5d3dfa6542

Thanks

Cheers
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 06:43 PM
  #21
DieHarder
 
DieHarder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Grand Haven, MI
Posts: 2,957
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Original as in how it is sold from the manufacturer? If so, it looks original to me.
DieHarder is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 07:28 PM
  #22
loucao_jr
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

More like original Hobbywing stuff, I've read that there are some Hobbywing fakes arround ebay... I was just checking for some opinions...

Thanks
loucao_jr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2014, 12:25 AM
  #23
phmaximus
 
phmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 6,607
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

looks legit to me.....

as far as I know I thought it wasn't really issue fake ones it was more of a problem with clones ones sold under a different name like hobbyking.

it looks to be the 60a waterproof ESC too....
that would do the trick...

but this ESC is better and more suited to ur application so the programmable setting will be more usable and with in the right range.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XERUN-JUST...item3a89f37ae4

and this motor
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hobbywing-...item3a8297758a

otherwise u might end up with a car that's just over the top, and impossible to hold full throttle...here is my rally car with a hobbywing 9t 4300kv combo and tall gearing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUT5mdy6LE4
phmaximus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:12 AM.