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should i try another 1/5 conversion?

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Old 06-25-2014, 07:28 PM
  #1
nitrosportsandrunner
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Default should i try another 1/5 conversion?

I was scanning youtube for custom 1/5 weedwacker powered RC's....cause I have a 33cc weed wacker I could use.

I found a brushless 1/5 truck that used a kyosho mad force rear axle.

That got me thinking....why not scale up my twin force? I already have a 1/5 redcat rampage body on hand.

The 2 biggest possible issues I see are the brushless system and steering. the truck currently has a blue bird servo, don't know the specs but seems pretty good. but it has the stock steering linkage.
The stock steering setup honestly doesn't bother me much right now....the truck is not that long and does turn decent. But stretch the truck 5-6 inches and I may want more steering authority.
That will require a axle mount setup as well as some way of moving the lower links inboard on the chassis....since the wheels currently hit them when fully turned.

the second is the esc/motor setup. this is an issue since I don't have $200 to buy the proper setup.

I had an older SC450 esc and a DTX 540 motor. I was able to run them on a 7.2v nimh and got 20mph and nothing got too hot. but when I tried a 2s lipo the sc450 speed control died (it had already been glitch)
But a brand new sc700 just arrived in the mail (cost me a whole $53 shipped) which I think will be OK if I stick with current gearing and a 2s lipo. Not so sure it would handle a 3s.
this truck is a couple of pounds lighter than a emaxx, which I have run on a vxl system with 3s before. but I think the vxl system is a bit better than a sc700 with a dtx 3900kv motor.

But a conversion shouldn't be too hard. extend the upper chassis with rails, make sturdy body mounts, extend rear links (or make new chassis side plates which are longer) and make a custom long drive shaft.

part of me says, keep the kyosho as is. get a cool body for it and run it as a wheely popping, bouncing MT. the other part says stretch it 6'' and make it look 1/5 scale. I also think it would make a better conversion chassis than my 1/5 vxl stampede did. trying to make a 1/10 scale chassis' driveline work with 6'' tall tires and with the suspension jacked way up is hard. But the kyosho already has large tires and some beafy axles.

I recently made a 1/5 hummer crawler. when I took it to a crawler meet it got lots of looks and praise. there is something about large scale RC's that is cool. Nearly ever other crawler at the meet was worth 2-3 times what my 1/5 hummer cost....but I had some guys drooling and wanting to build their own!
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:48 AM
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I love stretching smaller platforms to larger sizes. I'm not sure I'd want to stretch out the Mad Force though. I just don't think the suspension can make it handle decent and I don't think it would look right. To fix those you'd need longer suspension links for both ends. I'd probably want to widen the truck a little as well and honestly I'd be afraid for the axles adding extended hexes to them. I think your right on with making the MF into a fun bouncy truck in it's current form.

Besides, if you're going to build a large scale solid axle truck, it can't be with a RedCat body. It's gotta look more like this
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23147
http://www.beatyourtruck.com/forum/s...-Monster-Truck
Btw your Clod axle large scale Hummer looks pretty sweet from the one pic you posted in that other thread. Would love to see more pics of it, maybe it's own thread...

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Old 06-26-2014, 03:15 AM
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If it was me..... YES
i think 1/2 the fun is making it

What about convert it to 4 link suspension and extend the wheel base with longer links and driveshafts?
u could even do a non triangulated 4 link setup with a panhard rod for a more scale look?

Id recomend removing one of the axle assemblies and move it futher back, then that way u could eyeball it with the body dummied up.
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Old 06-26-2014, 04:13 AM
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I know it has been done, but Im not sure how to do a 3 or 4 link with these axles.

and I would think it much easier to extend the chassis, then to extend the stock links or go to a 4 link.

Maj, you may be right about the width of the kyosho's axles not being wide enough to look good. ill have to put the redcat body over it and get a feel for how it would look. I too would not want to run axle wideners.

also, I did a 1/5 hummer with a exceed mad torque MOA crawler. It is not fully done yet, but is drivable and I have taken it to a crawler meet and it did very well. it was fun pushing some of the axial trucks out of the mud when they got stuck with my giant truck.

and I would love to just buy a nice 1/5 body....but that would cost the same as what I paid for the twin force! the only reason im considering the stretch is because I already have a rampage body with nothing for it to go on.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:45 AM
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so I put the rampage body on the twin force and it would actually look really nice. the tires are just the right size for the wheel wells, and the wheels would stick out 1.5-2 inches on either side of the body (no need to widen the axles)

It would need to be stretched a good 6, maybe even 7 inches to get the wheel base right. Even if I did the stretch even front to back, each driveshaft would need a fairly long extension. If I did just the rear, it would be very long.

I put on my new ESC, got it calibrated and dropped in a 2s lipo. It is much better than with the old esc that burnt up. that esc must have been holding the motor back, cause now it wheelies on demand and looks like it has about 5mph more on the top end. I will try and get a gps reading later, but I think im getting in the 25mph range. That I am happy with, as the stock brushed setup on a pair of 6cell nimhs would only do 23-25mph. so, to get the same speed on a single 2s is great.

with new wheely power, I am starting to think I may keep it as is, and just find a nice body for it. stretching it wouldn't be too hard, but it would cost some $$$ and require some custom parts that might be tricky to make (driveshaft)

I may have found another future use for the rampage body tho....I saw a video of a stretched Tmaxx with a 23cc weedwacker motor on it! so if I can get a spare $100 to buy a decent tmaxx roller, I may be able to do a Gasser & 1/5 conversion to it
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Old 06-26-2014, 04:25 PM
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GPS says: 22.5mph. not as fast as I had hoped, but still pretty good. a single motor on a single battery doing about the same as the duel brushed motors on 2 batteries.

I got 140 on the ESC and 130 on the motor. the ESC temp is a bit higher than I want...but I could add a fan. and it is not surprising to have this size ESC getting a bit warm pushing a 10 pound truck.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:08 PM
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I was a bit unsure about the width of the RedCat body and the width of the axles with wheels and tires so I figured I'd mention it. I know in my stretching escapades I could use all the width I could get for the look and handling I wanted. But I was also going to Baja length initially before scaling back to 1/6 FG/RedCat length where the stock width of the 1/8 MT I was stretching was more appropriate.

I've seen some kits to 3 or 4 link the Kyosho axles. The center/upper is just 2 plates attaching to the center section from the sides with slightly longer screws. The link(s) just go in between the plates or you could make a u shaped plate and mount the links to the top of the plate. I forget what the others looked like but I believe they were something like a clamp on style.

For driveshafts don't forget about the easiest way to make long driveshafts, just putting together Traxxas shafts. I made one very long shaft for my Baja length (22" wheelbase) stretch Revo. It held up to Castle 2200kv on 5s just fine and was pretty funny watching it ride the rear wing down the street before I mounted the body to it. My only issue was one shaft was molded wrong and slightly off center and I didn't notice it when putting it together. It would slap the chassis when going over about 34mph or so but other than that it was fine. And since pics are proof


There's an old thread floating around here detailing 23cc gasser converted TMaxx's. I think there were about 7 built and running trucks in the thread. This was in the days before the 3.3 parts so driveshaft issues were common as was breaking transmission parts, diffs, and sorting out a reliable way to transmit power to the transmission. Most used a 1/2" drive swivel intended for a ratchet or a another device that functioned similar to the swivel. Either way the transmission was modified so the input shaft came out the front, then the trans was rotated 180 degrees so the coupler could attach the engine directly to the transmission input shaft. It can be done but it's pretty involved. As for the truck it would need 3.3 axles or CVD's, same for center shafts, at least aluminum outer diff cases if using 2.5 spec diffs instead of 3.3 (or 3903/5/8 Emaxx) units, black trans with forward only possibly locked in 2nd gear. I remember the thread vividly as I was super deep into Maxx trucks at the time and that thread was the reason I joined RCU.
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:17 PM
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found a few links to the tmaxx gasser threads on here for you.
Maxx Gasser Build Notes (Gas S-Maxx Conversion) Pics, Vid The original big thread with multiple trucks
The Madness Continues. The Mega Maxx Gasser! (update 5-28-05 Video) A refined project thread from the master of Gasser TMaxx's
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:34 PM
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I think making it 1/2 scale is the most fun! lol
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i think 1/2 the fun is making it
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:19 PM
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Lol, now ya talkin'
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrosportsandrunner View Post
I know it has been done, but Im not sure how to do a 3 or 4 link with these axles.

and I would think it much easier to extend the chassis, then to extend the stock links or go to a 4 link.

Maj, you may be right about the width of the kyosho's axles not being wide enough to look good. ill have to put the redcat body over it and get a feel for how it would look. I too would not want to run axle wideners.

also, I did a 1/5 hummer with a exceed mad torque MOA crawler. It is not fully done yet, but is drivable and I have taken it to a crawler meet and it did very well. it was fun pushing some of the axial trucks out of the mud when they got stuck with my giant truck.

and I would love to just buy a nice 1/5 body....but that would cost the same as what I paid for the twin force! the only reason im considering the stretch is because I already have a rampage body with nothing for it to go on.
i did did find this for ya.... All u do is make 8 links and cut and flip the existing arms... It would make the axle articulate with zero binding


http://s63.photobucket.com/user/mjde...N2634.jpg.html
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Old 06-28-2014, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHarder View Post
I think making it 1/2 scale is the most fun! lol
bah just go full scale
pick up a running car for $600
make a giant servo to control the steering out of a windshield wiper motor(there are plans on the internet)
do the same for throttle, and brake
then wire it up to your favorite controller, and Boom full scale RC car


http://hackaday.com/2009/11/10/remot...r-dangerously/ or that lol
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:51 PM
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phmax thanx for the pic. other setups I had seen showed using the metal bolted to the diff housing as a mount for a upper 3 link. doing a four link as pictured looks easier.

I am still on the fence about doing the conversion. even if I do, im on the fence if I want to do a four link on the rear to get the stretch or if I want to just make a stretched chassis and keep the stock suspension setup. The 4 link should be easier, but the stretched chassis method seems less likely to have any odd side effects since it would retain the stock suspension.
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Old 06-28-2014, 04:25 PM
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I took off the rear tires so that I could take some pics with the rampage body setting close to where it would. I think the tires stick out a decent amount and that they fill the wheel wells pretty good, especially if I can get the body to sit lower (to hard to tell if the suspension flex would let the wheels hit the body if it were lower)

another consideration if having to buy a 1/8 system if I go 1/6 conversion. the current 1/10 system seems OK on 2s. but stretching it will add some weight. and larger scale models tend to "look" slower than they are really going. so a system that could do 35mph would be better. but even a hobbyking 1/8 system will cost me $100 or so, which I don't have right now.

still, this idea is tempting.

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Old 06-28-2014, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SyCo_VeNoM View Post
bah just go full scale
pick up a running car for $600
make a giant servo to control the steering out of a windshield wiper motor(there are plans on the internet)
do the same for throttle, and brake
then wire it up to your favorite controller, and Boom full scale RC car


http://hackaday.com/2009/11/10/remot...r-dangerously/ or that lol
a few years back I bought a perfectly good Volvo 740 Turbo wagon for $450. good paint, leather, sun roof, power everything, heated seats. best $450 I ever spent. after 1.5 years of driving it I sold it for $500. It did some nice burnouts

My 1/6 hummer has done so well that it is making me want to do a 1/6 twin force. I have seen many threads where they were beafed up as big MTs and many more where they were converted to crawlers.....but no results for a stretched force.

due to lack of money, this conversion may take awhile....but I am really leaning towards doing it. this chassis seems like a much better platform for it than my 1/6 stampede vxl was.
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Old 06-28-2014, 08:33 PM
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I guess it depends on what u want from the suspension...

As as cool as it is, it's border line toy grade suspension. It's very similar to the current large scale Niko suspension setups. And similar to the Clodbuster suspension but with out the ball joints.

So, it makes for a suspension that can move up and down freely as a whole
but this suspension does not alow for much flex. The only way it flexes is from physically bending the plastic arms.
no kidding if u were to make it from alloy there would be no flex/articulation at all it would just go up and down as a whole.

i think if u are going to go for 1/5 scale u are going to want all the suspension travel and articulation u can get.
how well does it flex ATM? Can it take on a simple coffee cup with all 4 wheels on the ground?
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Old 06-28-2014, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phmaximus View Post
I guess it depends on what u want from the suspension...

As as cool as it is, it's border line toy grade suspension. It's very similar to the current large scale Niko suspension setups. And similar to the Clodbuster suspension but with out the ball joints.

So, it makes for a suspension that can move up and down freely as a whole
but this suspension does not alow for much flex. The only way it flexes is from physically bending the plastic arms.
no kidding if u were to make it from alloy there would be no flex/articulation at all it would just go up and down as a whole.

i think if u are going to go for 1/5 scale u are going to want all the suspension travel and articulation u can get.
how well does it flex ATM? Can it take on a simple coffee cup with all 4 wheels on the ground?
ATM, I can put a SC10 wheel under one of the kyosho's wheels and still have the other 3 on the ground....just barely.

but, wont adding 6'' of wheelbase effect how the suspension acts? assuming I keep the stock suspension and just lengthen the chassis, the added wheelbase should increase stability and even how well it copes with bumps. a longer wheel base car does better over bumps as the time between the front/rear wheels going over the same bump is increased.

Im not saying a 4 link wouldn't be better....just not sure I want to bother. but then again, making a custom chassis wont be that easy either (considering the tools I have to use) a machine shop could whip one up in an hour, but a jigsaw and a drill would take longer and not be as pretty.

I very much want to remove the steering slop...but the "play" caused by the funky suspension I kinda like. it is part of what gives it a "monster truck" feel.

One big benefit if I did go 4 link, is that I bet I would get more steering throw without hitting the new links. in that pic the links are at least 1/4'' inboard of where the stock links would be. 1/4'' extra steering angle is an improvement for sure.
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Old 06-28-2014, 11:44 PM
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This is my favourite conversion yet. Highly recommend looking

http://www.rcmt.net/forums/showthrea...ith-Clod-tires

and by the looks u can but link mounts pre made like the shark fin mount

http://supershafty.com/33-kyosho-axle-mods

Just thinking... If it needs to be about 6" longer u could always make the links 2" longer and modify the cradle with a alloy plate to make the mounting points for the links 2" future apart?

Or do the same thing but make ur own chassis side plates and use the stock cross braces
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:50 AM
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Well that first thread phmaximus posted seems to confirm that there are different knuckles for these axles, Twin force, mad force had different knuckles. Sounds like that may be part of your steering problem.

I also like like what was done in that thread. Yeah he hacked off the stock plastic link but after rotating what was left it was a perfect 4 link mount. The fact the upper links were triangulated at the chassis end hurts the flex a little though. Look at it this way. If you 4 link the stock chassis you have to make mounts for the upper links and relocate the shocks unless you mount them to the links. Or make a new chassis with or without 4 link, either way you're fabricating suspension mounts. I'm a fan of do it once as best as possible and that's probably a new chassis with a 4 link.
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Old 07-01-2014, 06:59 AM
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^agreed.... And I'd problary use that top link mount I linked, it's cheap and will triangulate the suspension on the diff side much like a 3 link setup. That way u could use the rotated and hacked stock link for adjustable bottom links to adjust the antisquat
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maj_Overdrive View Post
Well that first thread phmaximus posted seems to confirm that there are different knuckles for these axles, Twin force, mad force had different knuckles. Sounds like that may be part of your steering problem.

I also like like what was done in that thread. Yeah he hacked off the stock plastic link but after rotating what was left it was a perfect 4 link mount. The fact the upper links were triangulated at the chassis end hurts the flex a little though. Look at it this way. If you 4 link the stock chassis you have to make mounts for the upper links and relocate the shocks unless you mount them to the links. Or make a new chassis with or without 4 link, either way you're fabricating suspension mounts. I'm a fan of do it once as best as possible and that's probably a new chassis with a 4 link.
if I used the stock chassis, I would just add holes for the upper links.
And for the shock's lower mount, I would use a longer bolt and mount it to the same tab as the upper link.

I will have to look into the different knuckles. I looked threw but don't see the link phmax mentioned. would you know which version had wider knuckles? and is just the plastic knuckle longer, or is the stub axle longer too?
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:21 PM
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MWA HA HA HA HAAA.....
well, I put the twin force on ebay...and sold it for $280 (RTR minus radio and battery)

Then just now, found a RTR Mad force VE (just add batteries) which I bought for $210!!!

The VE will make a FAR better platform if I do a 1/6 conversion. Even if I don't, it will be faster and should handle better/be more durable than the twin force!

So, I paid $100 for the twin force, $25 for the motor, $55 for the ESC and got $280 for it. even after shipping and fees, ill still have a bit over $200...that is, I did until I bought the VE.

On amazon the VE is $550. So getting a used one that looks in decent shape for $200 is a good deal in my book.

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Old 07-10-2014, 03:41 AM
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So, made a few bucks and upgraded? Nice score!
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