SuperIggster

Hey everyone, I recently decided that I wanted to get a Hobby grade RC Vehicle. I have been researching for a few weeks now and I would appreciate any feedback you guys might have on my findings for my first RC Vehicle.

I want to spend right around $200. Who knows I might not even like the hobby and decide to sell it right away so I don't want to invest to much money just in case it isn't for me (although I highly doubt it).

I am looking for something fun, durable, can run on almost any terrain and upgradeable in the future. After hours/days/weeks of internet research I finally stopped in my local Hobby Town store. They carry mostly Traxxas, Lossi, HPI and Helion. I even saw they had a single ECX vehicle listed on their site (which is why I went to the store in the first place). Come to find out they don't generally carry ECX but could get them within 2 days if I wanted (including spare parts). I was even introduced to the 2014 Arrma MEGA series they just got in (not out until September I believe).

So here is what I have narrowed it down to (Basically I am torn between Short Course and Stadium Truck):

ECX Torment 1/10th Scale Short Course 2WD with a 15t Brushed Motor ($179.99) - I believe I am leaning towards this the most although I think I like the looks of Stadium Trucks better
ECX Circuit 1/10th Scale Stadium Truck 2WD with a 20t Brushed Motor ($159.99)
Duratrax Evader EXT 1/10th Stadium Truck 2WD ($169.99)
Aarma MEGA FURY 1/10th Short Course 2WD with a 15t Brushed Motor ($189.99)
Aarma Vorteks 1/10th Stadium Truck 2WD with a 15t Brushed Motor ($179.99???)

Possibly interested in:
Traxxas Slash 4x4 1/16th 4WD ($199.95)
Traxxas Slash 2WD 1/10th SC ($209.95)

Opinions comments feedback welcome please.

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

Hey! Welcome to the addiction.
You have a pretty good list there. Starting with brushed motor systems will give you a chance to get used to driving without trying to manage a "bullet". The stadium trucks usually don't come with bumpers, and boy, do they need them. RPM or T-Bone Racing will have those. Short Course racing is hugely popular (buggies are next) and the nice thing about them is no open wheels. But since you're new and not into racing yet, I say, get what you like!

I started with the Evader. I don't regret it, but there may be better ones. ECX and Arrma stadium trucks are very similar to the Evader. Heck, most 2wd chassis are similar to each other. They just differ a little on how they put them together. If you decide on the Evader, I can tell you what to do to make it practically bulletproof when you go to upgrade to brushless (and you will). All the ones you list are really decent for the price, so really, you can't go wrong with any of them.

The ones with the 15T motors will be a little faster than the 20T.

Traxxas is always on the shelf at the hobby store, because they don't charge stores to stock their stuff. Nothing wrong with Traxxas, other than they're a little pricey for what you get. (They have to pay for all that marketing!)

You may have to up your budget a little. Don't forget you'll need some tools, a battery (or two) and a charger. Some shock fluid and bearing lube too and some gear grease.

I HIGHLY recommend this charger: Thunder AC680 Professional Dual-Power LiPo Balance Charger Discharger w AC Adapter for 1-6 Lipo 1-15 Nimh + USB to PC Software You won't find a better one for the money. I've seen the exact charger with other people's names on it for twice the price! Get it at hobbypartz. I also like the Gens Ace LiPos.

Ah...LIPOs. Getting the brushed models, Lipo may be a little advanced for you, unless the speed control (ESC) has a built-in Lipo Low-Voltage Cutoff. Lipo packs must not be discharged below 3.0V/cell, so Lipo-ready systems have that LVC feature. LOOK FOR IT.

That should give you some things to think about for a while. Good luck with your choice. C'mon back with more questions.
Cheers!

SuperIggster

Appreciate the feedback EXT2Rob!!!

To make the Duratrax Evader into a Brushless LIPO system, will that be a lot of money to upgrade?

zackS30

Lol right when I saw rob posted I knew he was going to say SOMETHING about the ac680. He always does! And that's y I bought one lol! It is very good!
I agree with what rob said as well. Good to start bushed but you'll want more pretty quick!

SuperIggster

Do you guys think I am better off starting with a Brushless system out of the box?

http://www.hobbytown.com/Shop/-Helio...RTR-RC-Truggy/ ($259.99)
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXDZBBBB&P=0

BKoz559

My Feedback: (3)

I'll give you some feedback because I've owned or currently own some of the vehicles you listed. ECX trucks in general are good beginner trucks and the plastic their made of can absorb impacts better than some other brands. Tough trucks and generally a good choice for a beginner. However, they suffer from an overly soft servo saver which adversely effects the steering. For a first time driver this may not be an issue but over time the plastic spring softens and the steering gets sloppy. ECX has recently released a slight upgrade which has a metal retaining ring that fits around the plastic spring. It helps but it's not on par with offerings from competitors. The Circuit, because it's lighter, doesn't seem to be effect as much as the Torment or Ruckus.

Though they cost slightly more, I would advise a Duratrax or Arrma. My son has a Duratrax Evader and I previously owned an Arrma Granite. Both are good beginner trucks and perform very well. I would give the advantage to the Arrma because I liked the metal chassis design and the suspension is built solid. Additionally it uses 12mm hexes to mount the wheels so changing to aftermarket wheels is simple. The ECX trucks use the same system. The Duratrax still uses the older "Team Associated" system with bearings pressed into the front wheels and drive pins on the rear. There are creative ways around this but it's not straight-forward like an Arrma or ECX. Both Arrma and Duratrax trucks have adjustable turnbuckles in the suspension and steering whereas the ECX does not.

You're in a pretty good spot since you like the look of stadium trucks as they tend to cost slightly less than short course and monster trucks. Any of these trucks can be upgraded with brushless motors, different wheels, tires and bodies. Chassis "aftermarket" parts aren't so plentiful but ECX has recently released some aluminum accessories for their trucks. I personally do NOT advise aluminum parts except for a few key pieces. You're better off upgrading your motor, ESC, battery, charger and shocks.

If you can invest more initially then I DO advise getting a brushless truck from the start. The motors require very minimal maintenance, dusting them off basically, and they perform more reliably and consistantly than the basic brushed motors. Plus, a popular brand brushless system costs about $100-$150 whereas a brushless RTR costs about $80 more than the standard truck. I encourage an Arrma brushless more than I would the Duratrax. The Arrma short course and monster trucks prices are pretty steep though. A stadium truck is a good value overall.

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

Dang tootin' I talk up that AC680 charger a lot! You can't beat it for the money! I've seen similar chargers at TWICE the 680's price, and I can't stand by and watch a noob blow half his budget on an over-priced charger. I've been in this hobby on the cheap since I got in it. It's the Scot in me.

Does it cost a lot to upgrade the Evader to brushless? NO! This is the perfect motor system for the Evader, or other same-weight 2wd cars, like the Rustler:
HobbyWing EZRUN Brushless System Combo B2 w 35A ESC & 9T@4300KV 3650M Brushless Motor for 1 12,1 10 on-road racing for experienced drivers
It's only $77!

Gens Ace 5000mah 40C Lipo http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-40c-50...se-direct.html $43

That is a brushless motor system AND a Lipo battery for the cost of a Castle Sidewinder system alone!

You'll need to replace the diff (eventually) with this part: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBURC&P=7 all-metal diff, $18

The other thing you will need is a couple pieces of "music wire" available at your hobby shop or hardware store. It's really thin metal rod in various thicknesses. Three 30in pieces for like $3. You'll need two different sizes, one for the wheel drive pins, and one for the pins inside the diff. 1.19mm for diff 1.47mm for drive pins, IIRC.

Get some TrakPower Gear Grease for the tranny and diff. OH! IMPORTANT: When you get the all metal diff, be sure to take out all the screws and use blue loktite on them. If any of those screws come loose, the gears in the diff loose mesh and can strip out in a hurry. Always use Blue Loktite on any metal-to-metal fastener.

And get a bumper set from T-Bone Racing. Wish I could find that aluminum front bulkhead brace, it was only $3.

Oh, one more thing: You will find all these items have different power connectors. And the ones that come on the Evader are the white Molex "Tamiya-style" connectors. Ditch 'em! Change everything to Traxxas connectors. Brushless motors and Lipos use a LOT of amps, and those Molex jobs ain't up to the task. If you don;t know how to solder, get the guy at the hobby store to do it for you.

SuperIggster

Once again thank you EXT2ROB. Nice to see I can find good advice/help on here.

Bkozz, appreciate the feedback. I keep looking more into the Arrma line and I am pretty impressed with what I see review wise. Plus my local Hobby Town carries them.

Thank you both!

BKoz559

My Feedback: (3)

No worries. If you end up ordering from Tower, be sure to take advantage of their promo codes listed on their main page.

SuperIggster

Bkoz, it appears that Hobby Tower currently has 2013 Arrma BLX series Vorteks for 5 bux cheaper then the 2014 BLS Vorteks. Do you think the BLX is too much car for a beginner (note im 34 and not a kid starting out).

BKoz559

My Feedback: (3)

While a brushles motor will surely have more "kick" than the basic brushed motors in a standard RTR I still believe you will be happier in the long run. This package inclues a 6-cell 5000mAh battery which is actually a fair battery compared to what other companies include in their RTR packages. Many don't included batteries. The brushed truck has a 6C 2000mAh. Much less run-time.

I expect that on level pavement at full-boogie this thing would peak in the upper 20mph range and maybe kiss 30. With a 2S LiPo it would definitely be in the 30s, getting closer to 40. But, the point is that you won't have to worry if the brushes are broken in and seated or burning out a cheap brushed motor and you'll likely want to upgrade to brushless later. The important lesson here is that you will want to work on throttle control. 2WD vehicles are less forgiving than 4WD in regards to handling and the more power you have the more challenging it can be. Just give yourself plenty of room, visit a baseball diamond or park without people standing around. You'll get the feel of it. Another good lesson at a baseball diamond is to follow the lines, especially when you're standing at the opposite end of the field.

Remember, the controls are proportional. Give a little throttle, it goes slower. Steer a little and it steers slightly. Yank on the throttle or jerk the steering wheel and it will do just like a real car, peel out and spin out of control.

Use the promo code on the main page and you can have one delivered to you for $226.64. Admittedly the stock battery charger is weak and you'll want to replace it soon. Take EXTRob's advice and consider that charger he recommends as your first upgrade. It'll charger your battery quicker and more accurately. Then you can look into LiPo batteries afterwards. I'll throw another 2 cents out here and show you this Imax B6: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lipo-Battery...item4d1f62673a

I have one that I use as a backup or when I'm in the field and don't want to bring my good chargers out. It charges any battery type at up to 5A and is very compact. It does require an external power supply which is why it comes with a cheesy laptop powersupply but, for $30 delivered to your door it's a tough bargain to beat.

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

AH! Not a kid! OK then, yes I would absolutely recommend going brushless right off. They're just so much better than the cheapo brushed motors. I went thru three motors on my Evader before going brushless. You will also want to pick up an IR thermometer. Duratrax sells one for $25. Use it to monitor your motor and ESC temps. Generally, your ESC should stay around 125F, and the motor in the 130-140F range, maybe a tad higher. You don't want your motor to get over 180F, or the magnets will start to loose strength and the motor loose power.

SuperIggster

Ya I'm just a big kid at heart!!! I'm really thinking of going with the Arrma BLS or BLX (right now the 2013 BLX is 5 bux cheaper than the 2014 BLS). Thank you for all the help!!

SuperIggster

Well guys I decided to go with the Helion Dominus 10tr from my local Hobby Town. I got a good deal on it along with an additional Venom 7-Cell 8.4v 3000 mAh battery with universal adapters.
I think for right now I am going to stay with NiMH batteries until I really get used to driving it. With that being said, should I move to all Tamiya (stock in the Helion), Deans or Traxxas connectors for my setup? Is there one brand of NiMH batteries that are better than another? It looks like the GENS ACE 5000 mAh is only $25 dollars right now at HobbyPartz. I am still debating on the 2 battery chargers that were recommended by EXT and BKoz.

I took it out for my first run on Labor Day to a local park. I was able to drive on grass (tall grass at that), gravel/dirt baseball infield, bike path and basketball court. I started out with the Venom battery and got about 15 minutes out of it. When I went to switch batteries I noticed the battery was hot, the motor I was able to touch without removing my hand, but the ESC was hotter than the battery (I was able to touch it for a few seconds). I guess I need that IR thermometer EXTRob recommended. I have heard that one of the 2 major issues people have with this car are that the stock 35A (100A bursts) ESC is undersized for this 4-Wheel drive RC, so I will be sure to keep an eye on that.

Now that I have a run in under my belt, I believe I will go with the Big Squid RC recommendations and get a set of Nyloc Wheel nuts. Once I get used to driving it I may also upgrade the steering servo as well, but I didn't see any lag or cogging going on with my NiMH batts.

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

What? What kind of wheel nuts does it come with? I thought nylocs were standard on all RCs.

For the love of God, ditch the crappy Tamiya Molex connectors! They should be BANNED from RC as far as I'm concerned. I like the Traxxas connectors because you can solder them without ruining them like you can the Deans. And they can handle the current modern RCs require.

I'm surprised you said the battery and ESC was hot, but not the motor. That implies that the car could be under-geared. Usually it's the other way round. You might be able to go up a tooth on the pinion. Unless you're going to be running in grass. (Usually not a good thing for anything smaller than a 8th-scale RC)

Since you got a 7-cell NiMh, you have an idea of what Lipo power could be like (essentially the same voltage). But Lipo doesn't suffer from voltage drop under power like NiMh, so you WILL feel more power going to Lipo. 15min run time for a 3000mah pack is about right. Going to 5000mah should get you 25min.

When I switched to brushless and continued to use my NiMh packs, they would get so hot, the shrink wrap on them would MELT. Eventually, they wouldn't hold a charge anymore. That's why Lipo is so much better.

But glad you got something you like and that yer havin fun with it! It's what it's all about, yeah? Keep us posted.

SuperIggster

EXT2, I haven't really looked at the wheel nuts yet, but that was what Big Squid RC recommended in it's review back in Nov 2012. I will double check this.

Appreciate the advice on the Tamiya connectors and will look into switching to Traxxas.

I noticed the 3000 mAh battery/esc combo got hotter than the 1800 mAh battery/esc combo. I will test it out again next time I go, but I can say for sure I was hesitant on putting the 3000 mAh battery in my pocket after the run due to how hot it was. I will make sure to stay clear of tall grass for now on (that may have been the issue).

Will switching to LiPo give me more power and run time or just power?

I had a blast running it my first time out!!!

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

The 3000 getting hotter than the 1800 makes sense, since the 3000 has a greater capacity, it has more time to be pushing out those amps. But Nimhs have greater internal resistance, which is why they get hot.

With the Nimhs, you may have noticed that power delivery starts to wain as the pack gets closer to depletion. With Lipo, you pretty much get the same power delivery from start to finish until the LVC cuts in.

SuperIggster

I could tell when the power would begin to drain. I thought it was almost like a protection circuit at first. I would get an initial boost of power then it would slow down.

Once again (I may sound like a broken record but I meant it) Thank you for all the feedback.

BKoz559

My Feedback: (3)

If you eventually begin to use LiPo batteries you'll never want to go back to NiMh. As stated here the voltage doesn't sag as much under load where the NiMh feels flat after a few minutes. As far as connectors, it's a debate for the favorite. I think they're equal in performance and I've always used Deans because that's what was available back in the day. Traxxas didn't develop their plug until later. Anyhow, I like to recommend the connector that is most common around you. Meaning, if you have RC buddies and they all have Traxxas connectors then go with that style in case you guys want to borrow batteries. Assuming you trust them with your batteries and vise versa.

Pickup an IR thermometer and check the temps at the end of the run. Keep in mind that the electronics will be hotter after running in grass compared to a smoother surface like hard-pack dirt or pavement. More resistance creates more heat. This will help to more accurately gauge which way you should adjust gearing. Additionally, higher voltage will make everything run hotter too. A 6C NiMh vs a 7C is only about 1.2V difference but the temps of the components will be higher on average no matter how you set it up.

SuperIggster

Took it out again this weekend. It was a much cooler day and I made sure not to run it through the tall grass. Huge improvement on the ESC and Battery temps. I am loving this thing. Now just need a better place to run it.

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

Glad you're enjoying your new hobby and your new car! Dirt is where it's at for the full fun factor. Finding a large expanse of it might be a challenge, if you're living in a big city. Any baseball diamonds, football/tracks, vacant lots or construction sites nearby?

SuperIggster

I have been going to a local park that has a kids size baseball field, so there is no pitchers mound to jump. I had 2 kids come up to me and asked if they could "play" with my RC Car, I had to politely tell them no. There is an old trucking depot right behind my house that is vacant, just need to see if I can go inside legally

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

Wise move to decline. It's why they call 'em "big-boy's toys". The little guys have no sense of control yet.

Just one other thing I'll mention, since you mentioned the trucking depot: If there are, um, "obstacles" you wish to avoid hitting, smaller versions of traffic cones can be had at some sporting-goods stores and RC stores, that will really save your car from damage if you hit something with these protecting it. My buddy and I laid out in out minds a track my property, then just started driving it, letting the cars sweep away all the duff and debris. But it's laid out among oaks and old pear trees. Hitting a tree at full-bore is going to break your car. We learned that pretty quick. Using those cones, combined with strips of sleeping pad foam that circle the tree base, eliminate any damage from glancing blows to direct hits. Saved us many many times. We essentially made energy-absorbing safety barriers like they have in real racing. A good bumper set helps too.

Have fun!

BlueBorderRC

Yeah $200 and "good rc vehicle" don't go together. Theres only one way to have anything good and that's just go ahead and get the best. Losi in my opion but anything that can touch it will do. Either way your not going to get any kind of good set up for less then $1,500 with batteries, nitro, tools, parts ect. That's if your coming up from nothing but eventually and soon you will need all these things to participate.

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

$1500??? I have to disagree. I certainly didn't spend anywhere near that amount when I started. True, I didn't buy a $500 Traxxas or Losi rig, I bought a Duratrax Evader. $169 with a battery and charger. True, it's a crappy battery and charger, but for a beginner, it's enough to learn to drive on. $50 for a good Lipo charger and another $40-$50 for a 5000mah Lipo that's up to $269. It's electric so no fuel or starter box is needed. You can get a set of hex and nut drivers for $30. So you're up to $299 or $300. Add a T-Bone Racing bumper set, that's another $30, and they will protect the car and prevent a lot of breakage, so you won't need a boatload of spare parts. Yeah, you'll eventually need replacement bearings, wheel nuts, lubes, etc. But that doesn't come anywhere NEAR $1500!

Then I got a 4wd racing truggy. An Ofna Hyper 10TT, WAY better than the Evader in build quality. That was only $189 as a roller. Added a $78 brushless motor system and a $50 servo. (I already had Lipos) That only adds up to a little over $300, and it's a killer RC: aluminum chassis and motor mounts and shocks(with boots), beefy diffs and front CV axles.

Now that is not to say that one CAN spend well over $1000 in this hobby, but usually over a period of time, say a year or two depending on how bad you get the bug. But to get started? No way. Unless you're a compete fool, and go buy the Traxxas E-Revo ($700) a dual-port battery charger ($200) and a crapload of MaxAmps Lipos.

Don't scare away the newbies, man.