ScarabChris

Granted my son runs the piss out of it. He has had it for 10 months and it's on it's 4th motor. He runs maybe 4 battery packs a week. Everything is stock on it. But we are running the upgraded 8.4 volt battery.

He just smoked another motor today. However this motor was not a Traxxas motor, it was just a cheapo 550 brushed motor I had in my tool box. This one lasted less than one battery pack and when it went it went hard. Smoked so much we could barely see the truck in the cloud of smoke.

But I usually replace the motor with the stock Titan 12T motor which I just got another of today. He runs the truck hard including lots of backing up then forward for wheelies and some running in the grass all of which I know eats up batteries and motors.

It's not a huge deal as the motors are only 20 bucks. But it sucks when it goes while he is having fun then having to shelf the truck until I can get a new one. Maybe I need to buy them in bulk. LOL.

So....anybody have a remedy? Better motor? Heat sink with fan?

phmaximus

how hot are the motors getting???

my advice would be to check the motor temps and if it's getting excessivle hot, you will need to reduce the load on the motor.

eaisest way to do that is to fit either a smaller pinion gear or a larger spur gear....

allso going from reverse to forward will deastoy most motors... It might be worth loosening the slipper clutch so it can slip a little in high load situations.

one other tip with the Traxxas titan motors,,, run them in, then there is a better contact from the brushes to the com, and it reduces arching

ScarabChris

The gearing is stock. 16 pinion and 90 spur. I figured I could loosen the slipper but then he won't be able to pop wheelies which is his favorite thing to do. We never check the motor temp during running. Telling a 5 year old to stop running the truck for 10 minutes to let it cool isn't as easy as it sounds. LOL.

I did just learn about breaking in the motors. I have been into RC my entire life (40 years old now) and never heard of breaking in an electric motor. Granted I was always into gasoline boats and brushless when they hit the hobby. In the entire room of RC toys the only two brushed ones are this Stampede and an HPI Sprint 2 Flux that I converted to brushed for my son.

I am installing a new Titan 12T motor now. I did the water break in according to the recommendations I watched on youtube. 30 minutes at low speed submerged in distilled water then blown out with compressed air then blasted the inside with T9 (this is a marine electrical protectant) then I oiled the bearings. Lets see how it does.

Thinking of getting a better quality motor like this for when this new Titan cooks.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atomik-1312-...item1e905ff4e8

RustyUs

ScarabChris, you answered your own question. The whole driving style is wreaking havoc on those motors...plain and simple. Unless there is some unseen binding to go along with your son's driving. I know I use to use Race Prep comm drops back in the day to "lube" the brushes and to produce less arching. I don't know if they even still make that stuff.

Is your ESC able to control/handle brushless motors? I only ask 'cause I was gonna recommended a cheap $25 brushless motor to try.

SyCo_VeNoM

From experiences those Atomik Motors are not high quality (they used to be sold under Venom brand) I tried a 21d once, and that sucker went up so fast it wasn't funny. I had it in a Brama 10b(extremely light buggy) and the motor died within 20 feet...

As for titan 550's from my experience they are extremely hit or miss I've had one lasted 10 mins vs my nephew has had one for 2 years with running similar to your sons.
In all honesty you might want a cheaper 3000kv or so Brushless setup

EXT2Rob

My Feedback: (1)

What kind of maintenance have you done on the thing? One seized bearing, especially if it's in the tranny, will put a tremendous load on the motor, overheating it in no time. All bearings need inspecting, at least once a month, twice, better.

But those Titan motors, like the Duratrax Photon Speed2, are cheap brushed motors, with spring-metal tabs for combo spring tension and electrical connection. Get them too hot, the damn things will fall out. What do ya expect for a $15 motor? And running it on grass? Those un-driven front wheels impart a lot of drag. Unless you gear it down, you're going to be replacing motors on a regular basis. The good thing is, gearing it down will make wheelies even easier!

You'd be better off replacing the whole motor system with a brushless system. AND, go buy an IR thermometer. Bushed motors (RTR ones) shouldn't get over 150F if you want it to keep it together. Brushless motors can go up to 160F, the better ones, maybe 170-180F. The only thing you'll overheat in a brushless motor is the rotor magnet or the lacquer on the wire windings. In which case you either start loosing power because the magnet isn't as strong, or, it shorts out and dies. But you gotta get it pretty hot to do that. All ya have to do with brushless motors is service the bearings once a year or so. As long as they're fine, off you go, or replace them if they need it, and your motor is good for at least another year.

AND they're more powerful, if you use Lipos, which you should, because NiMhs will have the life sucked out of them by a Brushless system, and IMO, can potentially damage the ESC. NiMhs cannot provide the current (Amps) Brushless systems demand. The battery pack gets hot, and that eventually kills the cells.

But I'm getting ahead of you. 8^)

phmaximus

Well RustyUs touched on a good point.... The harder u drive a car the harder you are on the driveline/motor

from the box, stampedes are a touch over geared... For reliability issues it's generally worth dropping a few teeth on the pinion gear regardless of the drivers driving habits....
but considering u are running a 7cell pack u should drop a few more teeth.. And if u have a driver that's even harder on the throttle u should lower it even more... So what u really need to do is reduce the load on the motor, because as u know load is proportional to heat and generally its excessive heat that causes motors to fail.

in short u need to lower the gearing or make the chance to brushless.

ps, I'm a father of 5, and it really depends on the child, but I have no issues getting my younger boys (3yo and 4yo) to stop when things get hot, sure they got a little upset at first but now they are use to it and really like having that responsibility. I've even taught them to check the Xbox every now and then and now days they are happy to turn it of for 5min to let it cool down

ScarabChris

Thanks for the input. Just a little background on myself. I have a lot of experience with brushless. I have boats, helicopters, quad copters, cars and trucks and all are brushless. One of my boats is massive and has twin brushless motors the size of Coke cans and runs four 6S LiPo's. I have a couple nitro trucks too.

I will eventually convert the Stampede to brushless if he doesn't completely destroy it first. But he's 5 and I want him to be a little more responsible with the truck before I put that money and speed into it. Currently he likes to run the truck through deep puddles and I know the brushed motors are a little better with getting super wet.

I have an Integy heat sink with cooling fan. Maybe I'll snap it on the Titan motor and see if that helps. I'll just make it so I can pop the fan off when he wants to run in puddles. I'll order a few extra Titan motors to keep on hand so I can swap them out when they burn up.

I know the driving habits of my son are what is cooking the motors. My question was more about if there was a better quality brushed motor that can be used. Doing a google search on this I can see this is a common problem with the Titan motors and the 2WD Stampede.

phmaximus

Why not just lower the gear ratio???

U could put a heat sink on there but u will find its very difficult to mount and it will most likely block the cooling fan holes and have a negative effect

collector1231

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry to hop in here, but my Atomik and Venom motors/ESCs have never failed me. I also have a teammate who ran one of these motors to 300 or something like that Fahrenheit due to a bad bearing. I saw it with my own eyes; the motor didn't even look like it was damaged, and still runs normally and great as it was new today.

SyCo_VeNoM

Beats me when I had issues there were a few other people here who bought them too, and we all had similar problems.

phmaximus

I guess it's hard to know how good they are with out knowing what caused it to fail and why....u know the old problem and cause

ScarabChris

Ok so my son ran the truck last night, he was about has hard on it as usual. This was with a brand new stock Titan 12T motor that I did the water break in on. I was amazed at how cool the motor stayed. On prior motors it would be hot enough that I couldn't hold my finger on it for longer than 1 second. This one was so cool it felt like it was barely over ambient temperature, it was 83 degrees outside and the motor was just warm to the touch. I'll take a reading with the IR laser thermometer today.

Did the water break in make that much of a difference? I did not break in any of the prior motors. It was full throttle bashing right out of the box.

Maj_Overdrive

My Feedback: (11)

My brother inlaw bought a venom brushed motor and it lasted less than 5 minutes. You can find similar stories on other forums. There's a thread on RCTech that's at least 3 pages long with failures and warnings to stay away from the Venom/Atomic brushed motors.

I'd be tempted to try an Axial motor from the wraith. They're pretty cheap and should move the Stampede the same or better than the Titan.

john01374

Look on Towers website for the great plaines S600 motor. They're about $14. I've run them in a number of trucks over the years and my kid currently has one in his Grave Digger Pede geared 14/90. He runs a couple of packs through it pretty much everyday and has been beating on that motor all summer without any issues.

ScarabChris

Ok so we ran the trucks again today. This time I told my son to really run it hard. Wheelies, running in high grass, ect. The motor got to about 170 degrees.

RustyUs

I just now seen that the Titans are closed end-bell motors. That would drive me nuts, not being able to change out the brushes when they wear out, or at least inspect the brushes. How easy/hard it would be for a piece of dirt/debris to chip a chunk of a brush inside that motor; maybe causing excessive arching? IDK.

But yeah, If you found a good Titan thats not burning you fingers, just keep doing what you're doing. I haven't use a brushed motor in a long time and don't know any to recommend, but I would find a motor to at least be able to change the brushes on. That's if you still want to use brushed motors.

RustyUs

After quickly looking...one 12T Brushed motor that has been re-branded numerous times I suspect (black can with those green heat sinks and different sticker can). Most opened end brushed motors that I see are about the same price or more than a budget brushless motor .

ScarabChris

Yes dirt can very easily get in the motor. The back end is wide open for the cooling fan and the motor is positioned right behind the rear wheels.

phmaximus

Awesome I'm glad I was able to help....good think u loged onto here otherwise u may never of known about running a brushed motor in....
i highly recommend it....u can see noticeable power gains..... Not massive but defiantly noticeable... personally I recemend doing in on secondhand motors and vintage motors from a kit u are restoring. Because it seats the bushes but it also gives it a good clean.

when brushes are brand new they are square, so when u hold a square to a circle (com) the 2 surfaces are barly touching, so as U run in the motor it concaves the tip of the brush to conform to the shape of the com increasing the contact surface area.... When this happens it reduces the electric resistance from the brush to the com. As a result of the reduced resistance there is also a reduction of heat... "Remember, resistance generates heat"

so saying that, because u run the motor in, that's why u are seeing a heat reduction.

but...... There is always a catch
hard driving causes excessive arching, so u might find it will need to be re-run in at some point. Because if it's driven hard enough it will slowly destroy that perfect contact u done via running it in.

ScarabChris

Funny you mention gains in power from breaking it in. I didn't realize it but the truck is much faster with the new broken in motor. Way faster then it was straight out of the box. Even my wife was like "holy ***** what did you do to make it so fast?" When me and my son run off road trucks he has this Stampede and I have an Axial EXO Terra buggy. I have the Terra buggy on 3S so it's pretty fast. When running the trucks side by side is when I really noticed how much faster the Stampede was.

I converted my HPI Sprint 2 Flux to a brushed system to slow it down for my son and so I could transfer the Castle ESC and motor to my new touring car. I never broke in that brushed motor. I think I'm going to buy a new motor for that car and break it in like I did on the Stampede because I feel like that car is not as fast as it could or should be.