How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
03-28-2007, 11:40 AM
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How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
I'm curious about how you fellow Mamba Max owners have your esc's programmed. I'm looking for a little less cogging and I recall several people on this message board saying that if you program it right you can get virtually eliminate cogging. My cogging happens at very slow speeds and seems the worst when I am going from reverse to forward. I have a 4800 mah 2s lipo battery, so I know it's not because of poor battery.
03-28-2007, 11:46 AM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
Have you looked at the config settings in the CastleLink software? Each setting has a "?" button with a detailed explanation of what it is.
For you, maybe it's just a matter of adjusting punch control (turning it up), and even the other setting that is called "initial power" or something like that (set to a lower value). Anyway, I say read up on 'em and see what you find out. Sorry I don't have the exact wording - I just installed my MM 5700 Sunday, and configured it immediately. Still tweaking it to how I like it....it's not in front of me, so I can't read you the setting names.
For you, maybe it's just a matter of adjusting punch control (turning it up), and even the other setting that is called "initial power" or something like that (set to a lower value). Anyway, I say read up on 'em and see what you find out. Sorry I don't have the exact wording - I just installed my MM 5700 Sunday, and configured it immediately. Still tweaking it to how I like it....it's not in front of me, so I can't read you the setting names.
03-28-2007, 11:49 AM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
I did read some of those help balloons, but I'm still getting some cogging. I think my punch control is set to low though, so I might increase that. I'm really confused about the throttle curve though.
03-28-2007, 11:53 AM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
I wouldn't worry about the throttle and brake curves for now. As I understand it (could be wrong!), those are for adjusting how the trigger input from your radio receiver translates to putting power to the motor from the ESC. Default is linear, so it behaves like any other ESC/motor would. You can adjust it so that the first, say, 80% of your trigger pull is very low power to the motor, and the last 20% is "gogogo!".
Anyway, I'm not sure that relates to cogging, so I'd say skip for now, and focus on those settings in the drop-down box. What is your punch control set to now? How about that other setting (like initial power or something...options are Low/Med/High)?
Also, what surface are you running on, what type of vehicle?
Anyway, I'm not sure that relates to cogging, so I'd say skip for now, and focus on those settings in the drop-down box. What is your punch control set to now? How about that other setting (like initial power or something...options are Low/Med/High)?
Also, what surface are you running on, what type of vehicle?
03-28-2007, 11:54 AM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
Mine is pretty new and all settings are pretty soft. I'm using generic batts and have zero cogging.
5700 with 7 cells in 1/10 stadium.
5700 with 7 cells in 1/10 stadium.
03-28-2007, 11:55 AM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
i know i'm new so don't freak but i have been reading about cogging in these forums and still have no clue what that is sorry if that sounds dumb but iv never herd anyone use that term before so i could understand it what is it?
03-28-2007, 11:58 AM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
Cogging is like a stutter when you first pull that trigger to let it start moving. A hesitation, of sorts.
No worries - I had the same question like 6 weeks ago.
No worries - I had the same question like 6 weeks ago.
03-28-2007, 11:58 AM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
I am running a FLM Extended Stampede with Masher 2000's. I have the Mamba Max 7700 system. My punch is at low setting and my start is at low also. My timing is set to neutral. My drag brake is set to 10% and brake is set to 60%.
03-28-2007, 12:19 PM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
ORIGINAL: Getrdone
I am running a FLM Extended Stampede with Masher 2000's. I have the Mamba Max 7700 system. My punch is at low setting and my start is at low also. My timing is set to neutral. My drag brake is set to 10% and brake is set to 60%.
I am running a FLM Extended Stampede with Masher 2000's. I have the Mamba Max 7700 system. My punch is at low setting and my start is at low also. My timing is set to neutral. My drag brake is set to 10% and brake is set to 60%.
Hmm, ok. Try upping that punch control...there should be % values, like 10%, 20%, all the way to 100%. That is, with the latest software version anyway. (Go to the Update section and be sure to download the latest software update for CastleLink! You should be able to do this from the CastleLink program itself).
I am running a 4WD Schumacher Bosscat onroad with good traction, and my punch control is 20 or 30%. With a 2WD Pede, you might want higher control (the info thing says so too I think), so I say give 50% a shot just to see. Can't hurt. Since you have 2WD and that 7700, it's gonna be sucking power like mad and wanting to spin those tires!
Can you tell me specifically the wording on the "start setting"? That's the one I want, but I can't recall if you want low or high to prevent it from sucking from the batts too much right off.
03-28-2007, 01:03 PM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
ORIGINAL: Getrdone
I am running a FLM Extended Stampede with Masher 2000's. I have the Mamba Max 7700 system. My punch is at low setting and my start is at low also. My timing is set to neutral. My drag brake is set to 10% and brake is set to 60%.
I am running a FLM Extended Stampede with Masher 2000's. I have the Mamba Max 7700 system. My punch is at low setting and my start is at low also. My timing is set to neutral. My drag brake is set to 10% and brake is set to 60%.
03-28-2007, 01:20 PM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
I have not really got to test it out a whole lot. I picked the system up yesterday afternoon and did not get to install it till 10:00 last night. I was not able to get up to top speed with it, but with 14/87 gearing it certainly seemed capable of getting after it. I use to own a Novak GTB 4.5 system. It was a lot smoother, but I think I can still get this MM adjusted to be ok.
03-28-2007, 01:26 PM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
The keys to MM glitching:
1) GOOD BATTERIES (a123's are da bomb)
2) Move the RX and antenna as far away from every other wire as possible. I'm running a Pede with the FLM Super Extended chassis and have the RX at the very front of the truck, the ESC and servo wires zip tied down the left side of the chassis and the antenna wire on the right side of the chassis and mounted inside the front body mount tower thingy. There is still slight glitching when I get too far away, but that's due to me still using the stock Traxxas TX/RX.
1) GOOD BATTERIES (a123's are da bomb)
2) Move the RX and antenna as far away from every other wire as possible. I'm running a Pede with the FLM Super Extended chassis and have the RX at the very front of the truck, the ESC and servo wires zip tied down the left side of the chassis and the antenna wire on the right side of the chassis and mounted inside the front body mount tower thingy. There is still slight glitching when I get too far away, but that's due to me still using the stock Traxxas TX/RX.
03-28-2007, 02:52 PM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
Could you by chance post a top-down picture of your pede without the body so we can see how all the wires are routed and electronics placement?
03-28-2007, 04:13 PM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
i run a b4 on a 7700 and dtx3800 cells and do not experience cogging and im on defualt. i will however experience a little cogging when going reverse and flipping the throttle to full. but then again i wont be reversing while racing so im good to go.
03-28-2007, 09:40 PM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
Sorry it took me so long to respond. Here's a top view picture of my Pede...
I'm still planning on changing the punch control this evening to a higher setting to see if that helps.
I'm still planning on changing the punch control this evening to a higher setting to see if that helps.
03-28-2007, 10:21 PM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
Main problem with the Mamba Max:
If I am forced to tune my settings to a specific setting to not experience cogging what is the point of all the adjust-ability options?
If I am forced to tune my settings to a specific setting to not experience cogging what is the point of all the adjust-ability options?
03-28-2007, 10:41 PM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
The wheelie bar is an Integy built for Revo's. I like it because it doesn't allow the front wheels to go vertical too much so that I can level out sooner.
03-28-2007, 10:51 PM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
ORIGINAL: -Inverted-
Main problem with the Mamba Max:
If I am forced to tune my settings to a specific setting to not experience cogging what is the point of all the adjust-ability options?
Main problem with the Mamba Max:
If I am forced to tune my settings to a specific setting to not experience cogging what is the point of all the adjust-ability options?
ORIGINAL: Patrick del Castillo
Castle Creations has built both Sensored and Sensorless controllers. We've been electronic speed controls for eleven years, and brushless controllers for nine years. In the early days, we started with sensored controllers, because it was the EASY thing to do. It's easy to build a good sensored controller. It's very difficult, and time consuming to develop a good sensorless controller.
Let's start with sensors.
A sensored motor has three sensors. So the controller knows where the rotor is within a 120 degree arc (And please note: I'm talking in ELECTRICAL degrees, not necessarily in MECHANICAL degrees. These can be different (in multi pole motors) or the same (in two pole motors)) at any time. SO, at zero RPM, the controller knows only within 120 degrees of the position of the motor.
AFTER start, when the hall sensors transition, the controller knows more precisely the position of the rotor.
In a sensorless system, the controller doesn't know the position of the rotor at start up AT ALL. So, we pick a phase, power the phase, and determine the direction of rotation. After the rotor has moved through about 60 degrees, we then know precisely the position of the rotor, and then can transition to a full run mode.
That's it. That's the difference in startup. Novak talks about low speed drivability -- However, we are tracking fully the back-EMF of the rotor *on the Mamba Max) at any speed above about 60 RPM (thats one MOTOR rotation every SECOND.) If you are driving at BELOW 60 RPM, yes the Novak will have an advantage.
Even Bob says: "After the sensorless system gets up to speed and gets enough back EMF information it becomes a back EMF sensored system and both systems can operate the same."
At 60RPM, a typical buggy will be moving about 1/4 MPH. So, if drivability below 1/4 MPH is important to you, go with a sensored system. You will be happy.
OH, and by the way... we have a patent (pending) on our back-EMF tracking at very low RPMs, AND WE ARE THE ONLY sensorless controller that can track back-EMFs at such a LOW LEVEL. This patent was filed by Castle Creations, and is an invention of Richard Hofer (my lead software engineer) who is also a part owner of Castle Creations. Quote from the patent:
this technique is particularly advantageous at low RPM because the commutation point is directly measured as opposed to using the zero-crossing point in which there is a pre-calculated delay between the measured event and the desired commutation point. Because this point is directly measured and stable, near neutral timing can be achieved even when the motor RPM is unknown and unstable. As those skilled in the art will appreciate, the technique of the present invention is particularly advantageous when applied to low speed variable motor applications such as turning the wheels of a vehicle at low speed, controlling speed of model vehicles or propellers at low speed, controlling low rotational speeds of a screw driver or drill, and controlling the speed of a pump.
Castle Creations has built both Sensored and Sensorless controllers. We've been electronic speed controls for eleven years, and brushless controllers for nine years. In the early days, we started with sensored controllers, because it was the EASY thing to do. It's easy to build a good sensored controller. It's very difficult, and time consuming to develop a good sensorless controller.
Let's start with sensors.
A sensored motor has three sensors. So the controller knows where the rotor is within a 120 degree arc (And please note: I'm talking in ELECTRICAL degrees, not necessarily in MECHANICAL degrees. These can be different (in multi pole motors) or the same (in two pole motors)) at any time. SO, at zero RPM, the controller knows only within 120 degrees of the position of the motor.
AFTER start, when the hall sensors transition, the controller knows more precisely the position of the rotor.
In a sensorless system, the controller doesn't know the position of the rotor at start up AT ALL. So, we pick a phase, power the phase, and determine the direction of rotation. After the rotor has moved through about 60 degrees, we then know precisely the position of the rotor, and then can transition to a full run mode.
That's it. That's the difference in startup. Novak talks about low speed drivability -- However, we are tracking fully the back-EMF of the rotor *on the Mamba Max) at any speed above about 60 RPM (thats one MOTOR rotation every SECOND.) If you are driving at BELOW 60 RPM, yes the Novak will have an advantage.
Even Bob says: "After the sensorless system gets up to speed and gets enough back EMF information it becomes a back EMF sensored system and both systems can operate the same."
At 60RPM, a typical buggy will be moving about 1/4 MPH. So, if drivability below 1/4 MPH is important to you, go with a sensored system. You will be happy.
OH, and by the way... we have a patent (pending) on our back-EMF tracking at very low RPMs, AND WE ARE THE ONLY sensorless controller that can track back-EMFs at such a LOW LEVEL. This patent was filed by Castle Creations, and is an invention of Richard Hofer (my lead software engineer) who is also a part owner of Castle Creations. Quote from the patent:
this technique is particularly advantageous at low RPM because the commutation point is directly measured as opposed to using the zero-crossing point in which there is a pre-calculated delay between the measured event and the desired commutation point. Because this point is directly measured and stable, near neutral timing can be achieved even when the motor RPM is unknown and unstable. As those skilled in the art will appreciate, the technique of the present invention is particularly advantageous when applied to low speed variable motor applications such as turning the wheels of a vehicle at low speed, controlling speed of model vehicles or propellers at low speed, controlling low rotational speeds of a screw driver or drill, and controlling the speed of a pump.
03-28-2007, 11:43 PM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
No offense to anybody, what I am saying is that if the settings have to be tuned to specifics to not experience cogging then what is the point of the multitude of adjustability?
I do not own a MM so maybe it is not as bad as it is portrayed in the forums, but I have experienced cogging in my 18th scale mamba systems.
I guess I should evaluate further when I have one of my own to mess with.
Sorry for any confusion. [8D]
I do not own a MM so maybe it is not as bad as it is portrayed in the forums, but I have experienced cogging in my 18th scale mamba systems.
I guess I should evaluate further when I have one of my own to mess with.
Sorry for any confusion. [8D]
03-29-2007, 12:12 AM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
ORIGINAL: -Inverted-
No offense to anybody, what I am saying is that if the settings have to be tuned to specifics to not experience cogging then what is the point of the multitude of adjustability?
I do not own a MM so maybe it is not as bad as it is portrayed in the forums, but I have experienced cogging in my 18th scale mamba systems.
I guess I should evaluate further when I have one of my own to mess with.
Sorry for any confusion. [8D]
No offense to anybody, what I am saying is that if the settings have to be tuned to specifics to not experience cogging then what is the point of the multitude of adjustability?
I do not own a MM so maybe it is not as bad as it is portrayed in the forums, but I have experienced cogging in my 18th scale mamba systems.
I guess I should evaluate further when I have one of my own to mess with.
Sorry for any confusion. [8D]
edited my first post for clarity to show I agree with what you were saying.
03-29-2007, 07:33 AM
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RE: How to eliminate Mamba Max cogging
I'd like to know how other people combat this too. I am still working with a cogging, stuttering problem at higher speeds or when I am on power at higher speeds. I am using good batteries.
I have my settings set at low start power, normal timing, no cutoff voltage, 100% traction control, 10% drag brake, Forward only.
I have soldered my battery wires together, using deans with my batteries.
I have my settings set at low start power, normal timing, no cutoff voltage, 100% traction control, 10% drag brake, Forward only.
I have soldered my battery wires together, using deans with my batteries.