RC Electric Off-Road Trucks, Buggies, Truggies and more Discuss electric RC off-road, buggies & trucks here. Also discuss brushless motors, speed controllers aka ESC's, brushed motors, etc

velineon or mamba

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Old 05-26-2007, 07:52 PM
  #51
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

It all depends on the price. If the RTR is in the same range as other RTRs, or only slightly higher, it might be a hot item. Top speed isn't everything, the performance and the trouble-free running of a brushless system is more than worth it if they can keep the price close to other RTRs. And not everyone has the will or the know-how to install a brushless system like the mamba or novak, it's easy for us to do but many people are mechanically inept, or for someone just getting into the hobby it might be too much. If it goes for $250. or less, it could very well set the standard for the next round of RTRs.
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Old 05-26-2007, 10:01 PM
  #52
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

I have no brand loyalty at all, but Traxxas' reputation preceeds them. Their electronics have been exceptionally robust, in my experience. I see no reason not to try one out and put it up against my MM 5700 to see what happens. Additionally, how can anyone who has a clue about this hobby say that this isn't a step in the right direction if nothing else? Sure the noobs will see those insane speeds on the box, but they will soon realize that you just don't have to go anywhere near that fast to have fun or to race 1/10th scale. They will enjoy longer runtimes and more torque (who doesn't like the ability to do wheelies?) and no maintenance. It has the potential to get more people interested, and that can only be a good thing for this hobby. I have never been disappointed with any traxxas car I bought and am eagerly waiting for the rusty vxl to hit the shelves. And I would definitely race it in the mod electric class with a real radio and RPM bumper.
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Old 05-26-2007, 10:20 PM
  #53
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

yeah brushless rtrs are good, but i think traxxas just wants to make more money than losi, like by not buying the esc's from another company... like if a newbie bought a losi brushless truck, they wouldnt even be able to name the brand of the brushless system, and for all intents and purposes its the same thing to them as the new traxxas brushless rtr's...

::edit:: actually i think i just said something stupid, the novak name is stickered right on the esc...
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:40 AM
  #54
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

I think the new beefed up drive-train, digital servo, and all the extra durability goodies are a good move. I don't think going with a 3500kV motor was a good move though. I did at first, but that was before I knew what kind of voltage and gearing it would take to get some decent speed out of it. On 6 cells it's 5mph faster than an xl-5 with the 19t pinion. When people think "brushless", they think "fast". I think alot of people are going to be disappointed unless they dish out $300 to $400 for a 3s lipo and charger. Now if Traxxas made or bought their own 3s lipo and charger and sold it separately as a battery/charger combo deal for alot cheaper than you can buy them at other places, then that would make it a better deal for the hardcore speed-demons IMO. And you know if your the kind of person who loves speed, you'll end up buying the separate battery and charger. Although I doubt that would become a reality.
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Old 05-27-2007, 08:55 AM
  #55
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

$486.99 on tower right now for the rusty.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXSDB7**&P=7
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:40 AM
  #56
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

So... 487$ for the VXL Rustler + TH discount.

About 387$ for a Stock Rutler + Mamba system (pick the one you want). The second option is actually even cheaper since you get 2 discounts (2 orders). I'm using TowerHobbies prices of course.

That leaves 100$ to improve the stock Rustler's diff and shafts (and a servo if you want one).

Am I missing anything or is this VXL not that good of a deal?

Francois
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Old 05-27-2007, 10:19 AM
  #57
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

If Traxxas is aiming this at r/c newcomers, I really would like to see how they convince them to drop $500 on one of these, seeing as how most newbies would be scared off by the $180 for a regular version, let alone $500 for just a "2wd electric." You have to see it from a newbie's perspective to get what I am saying... Good luck on selling those to anyone else but those that already have r/cs or older Rustlers who won't mind parting with $500 for a Rusty with Traxxas electronics... seeing as how "quality" hasn't been what their electronics/motors have been known for *cough * XL-1, Titan 12T, "High" torque 80in/oz servo *cough*.
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:00 PM
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

$480, what an utter ripoff, for $100. less you can get a XXX-T brushless RTR... I don't see many sales at that high price. It should be about half that much, even with the servo and such you could justify maybe $250. or $275. but not $480.
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:59 PM
  #59
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Default RE: velineon or mamba


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Access

$480, what an utter ripoff, for $100. less you can get a XXX-T brushless RTR... I don't see many sales at that high price. It should be about half that much, even with the servo and such you could justify maybe $250. or $275. but not $480.

IMO even at 275-300 still to much, for 50 bucks more u can get a race worth XXXT brushless RTR... but 480 is just ridiculous.
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Old 05-29-2007, 06:12 PM
  #60
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

i have tested the system in Plano Texas at Traxxas, and oyou wouldnt believe the power.

i already have a jato and emaxx, but was wondering about this system.

i ran the pede V and the rustler V, and they have plenty of power out of the box. Everyone stop trying to reg on Traxxas.

they did a great job on this one.


reply for more info.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:23 PM
  #61
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Default RE: velineon or mamba


Quote:
ORIGINAL: cruizplyr

i have tested the system in Plano Texas at Traxxas, and oyou wouldnt believe the power.

i already have a jato and emaxx, but was wondering about this system.

i ran the pede V and the rustler V, and they have plenty of power out of the box. Everyone stop trying to reg on Traxxas.

they did a great job on this one.


reply for more info.
I own 5 Traxxas vehicles, TMaxx, Rustler, 3 Revo's. I don't like this decision by traxxas at all. Not because I don't think the system will be credible, I think traxxas makes good things, although I'm not a big fan of proprietary equipment. But, I wish traxxas would have done something different. I would have liked to have seen a E-Jato, new Emaxx, E-Revo, New competitive buggy, Helicopter, just something different than reintroducing the rusty and pede over and over and over and over again. People aren't mad about the system, they feel traxxas has let them down and this is basically like them strumming their nose at us. Yeah, they may have a awesome new system, but guess what, it's a in a pede and a rusty, when most people have already gone out and mamba'd their pedes and rusty's.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:25 PM
  #62
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

Let's see the system soon...
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

I think you are missing the point, it could be the best system in the world, but it would still fail due to the price tag. This is an RTR kit we're talking about, no newb is going to pay that much for a truck, and an expert will know you can get the same truck and upgrade it for cheaper. Traxxas could have had a real winner here, but for that price the rest-of-world is never going to know or care. No one can in reality say it's good or not b'cos no one has tried it for real.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:08 AM
  #64
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

Some of you can't even get the price right, so how can you even speak on anything technical. I'm also sick of hearing this 'Over Gearing' stuff, cause every setup out there has been over geared at one point or another.

Around $330 for the whole truck and $180 for the BL system.

Why don't you look at the pro's instead of the con's?

1. The ESC has better numbers than my Quark 125 and run's ANY motor.
2. I thought a KV rating does nothing by itself, you have to match it with a power source & gears to equate to anything.
3. They've had the opportunity to view all the faults of the other BL manufactures.
4. The connectors look like modified deans (other than a Tamiya, how can you bash a connector anyway).
5. Castle can't even their motor right for the MMM, so that should tell you that it's not as easy as boiling eggs.
6. They've even beefed up some parts, that for anyone who has ever raw-dawged a BL system can appreciate.

I'm pretty sure the 70 mph mark was reached from extreme testing with no over heating issue's, so basically they're saying that it is possible.
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:36 AM
  #65
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Default RE: velineon or mamba


Quote:
ORIGINAL: BigMic69

Some of you can't even get the price right, so how can you even speak on anything technical. I'm also sick of hearing this 'Over Gearing' stuff, cause every setup out there has been over geared at one point or another.

Around $330 for the whole truck and $180 for the BL system.

Why don't you look at the pro's instead of the con's?

1. The ESC has better numbers than my Quark 125 and run's ANY motor.
2. I thought a KV rating does nothing by itself, you have to match it with a power source & gears to equate to anything.
3. They've had the opportunity to view all the faults of the other BL manufactures.
4. The connectors look like modified deans (other than a Tamiya, how can you bash a connector anyway).
5. Castle can't even their motor right for the MMM, so that should tell you that it's not as easy as boiling eggs.
6. They've even beefed up some parts, that for anyone who has ever raw-dawged a BL system can appreciate.

I'm pretty sure the 70 mph mark was reached from extreme testing with no over heating issue's, so basically they're saying that it is possible.
geared to the moon 31 pinion and 73 spur to reach the speed advertised, i sincerely doubt that it will operate at normal temps.
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:49 AM
  #66
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

Quote:
ORIGINAL: BigMic69
2. I thought a KV rating does nothing by itself, you have to match it with a power source & gears to equate to anything.
Noobie question: What exactly does a KV rating mean? How does it relate to turns and motor sizes such as 280 or 550?
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:04 AM
  #67
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Default RE: velineon or mamba


Quote:
ORIGINAL: icjefferys

Quote:
ORIGINAL: BigMic69
2. I thought a KV rating does nothing by itself, you have to match it with a power source & gears to equate to anything.
Noobie question: What exactly does a KV rating mean? How does it relate to turns and motor sizes such as 280 or 550?

RPM's per volt, for example 4300kv times 7.2 which is a 6 cell battery.. = 30,950 rpms
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:09 AM
  #68
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

Quote:
ORIGINAL: icjefferys

Quote:
ORIGINAL: BigMic69
2. I thought a KV rating does nothing by itself, you have to match it with a power source & gears to equate to anything.
Noobie question: What exactly does a KV rating mean? How does it relate to turns and motor sizes such as 280 or 550?
Kv rating has nothing to do with motor size, and doesn't tell you how much power (watts/hp) or torque it has, just how fast it spins. Kv rating is actually the "rpm per volt" the motor will spin. So a 4400 kv motor will spin 4400 rpm for every volt it's fed. So.. at 7.2 volts exactly, without *any load* put on it, it will spin at a maximum of 31680 rpm.

Generally the slower the kv, the relatively torqueir the motor, the longer the runtimes. Higher kv motors of the same model have more overall power/watts, lesser runtime, and slightly less torque (given the maximum amount of amps it can draw from the batteries) and will therefore heat up a little more than the lower kv version.

Doh! Cheech beat me to it.... !!!
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:24 AM
  #69
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

i am probably the only person that has tried it out in person, and they aren't trucks, but like everyoneelse i am waiting to here the price.
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:51 AM
  #70
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

Quote:
ORIGINAL: cheech4


Quote:
ORIGINAL: BigMic69

Some of you can't even get the price right, so how can you even speak on anything technical. I'm also sick of hearing this 'Over Gearing' stuff, cause every setup out there has been over geared at one point or another.

Around $330 for the whole truck and $180 for the BL system.

Why don't you look at the pro's instead of the con's?

1. The ESC has better numbers than my Quark 125 and run's ANY motor.
2. I thought a KV rating does nothing by itself, you have to match it with a power source & gears to equate to anything.
3. They've had the opportunity to view all the faults of the other BL manufactures.
4. The connectors look like modified deans (other than a Tamiya, how can you bash a connector anyway).
5. Castle can't even their motor right for the MMM, so that should tell you that it's not as easy as boiling eggs.
6. They've even beefed up some parts, that for anyone who has ever raw-dawged a BL system can appreciate.

I'm pretty sure the 70 mph mark was reached from extreme testing with no over heating issue's, so basically they're saying that it is possible.
geared to the moon 31 pinion and 73 spur to reach the speed advertised, i sincerely doubt that it will operate at normal temps.
lol, 31/73 would be way overgeared in a touring car with a stock motor. crazyness. oh, but I'm sure they're getting normal temps...maybe they were confused and thought it was okay for a esc/motor to run as hot as a nitro.

I'm just being mean for fun. I'm sure traxxas won't throw something out there that won't perform to the specs they released. They can't do that, right? I just wonder how they've figured away around cogging without sensors. Since sensors are the only theoretical way to eliminate cogging 100%, since the ESC has to "sense" the position of the rotor at all times to prevent any cogging.
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:54 AM
  #71
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

Quote:
ORIGINAL: cruizplyr

i am probably the only person that has tried it out in person, and they aren't trucks, but like everyoneelse i am waiting to here the price.
Did traxxas set up a demo for you? No one else was there when you were trying it out? The stampede isn't a truck? The rustler isn't a truck?
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:54 PM
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

I have a Feigao 8XL & Quark 125, so either I don't know what cogging is or it's not happening (mine is smooth at crawling speed). The only problem I have is my system shutting down whenever I get radio interference, and that's because I have it setup that way.

You shouldn't base gearing off of another system, cause their's could be alittle different. That's like comparing a HV-Maxx to my setup, so if you was to base the HV's gearing to what I'm able to run, then saying that mine is over geared would be totally wrong.

Just wait till it comes out, and when if any problems arise, then go ahead and bash it like you never bashed anything before.
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Old 05-30-2007, 06:44 PM
  #73
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

the rtr truck is only 320. thats really not too bad of a price considering the durability of trx vehicles. good truck for a beginner but a t4 and xxx t should smoke it on the track. although not to fair comparing a basher and race truck is it?
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Old 05-30-2007, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

plus when you are talking about buying a mamba max or a vlx system. for the price of the new traxxas system i would consider the new lrp brushless systems. close to the same price.
trx system:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=++&search3=Go

lrp system:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXRXX9&P=ML

mamba system:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXNKU1&P=ML
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:34 PM
  #75
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

Looks like they did bring the price down to $330, a little more reasonable if the system performs well. Hope no one bought it at the $480. price and got ripped off. One more price drop of that magnitude and this might be the next hot item.
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