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RC Electric Off-Road Trucks, Buggies, Truggies and more Discuss electric RC off-road, buggies & trucks here. Also discuss brushless motors, speed controllers aka ESC's, brushed motors, etc

velineon or mamba

Old 10-11-2008, 01:36 PM
  #201  
MuggyDude
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

Why would it glitch? Have any of you had this problem? 4s means 4 cell lipo right? But overall, the mamba max is more likely to stay cool? Or is the sidewinder just as cool?
Old 10-11-2008, 02:31 PM
  #202  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

The operational frequency of the ESC and Motor interferes with AM radio systems. What you get is a twitchy truck, random jerking of the steering servo and occationally it will jerk forward and/or backwards and this only gets worse the further away from you the truck is...

I had this problem as soon as I tried to run my Sidewinder with the stock AM system. The FM system worked good, but like I said, there was alot of FM interference here in town. The PM (Pulse Modulated) radio systems are awesome and flawless, I can drive it over a block and a half away and still have complete control. I could even go further, but that'd probably not be such a good idea since it's hard enough to tell which direction it is pointed at a block away.

Yes 4s means 4 cell lipo and yes the mamba will stay a bit cooler than the Sidewinder running a 2s or 3s because it's made to handle more...
Old 10-11-2008, 02:37 PM
  #203  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

try b-p-p.com for a sidewinder and the link, decent prices, keep an eye out as they have 5% off sales all the time and usually free shipping, or watch the classifieds here and in other forums for a used one if on a real tight budget.
Old 10-11-2008, 02:39 PM
  #204  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

... that's why I suggested eBay, Castle will still honor warranties for their products purchased on eBay. In fact, they didn't even ask me where or when I bought it!
Old 10-11-2008, 02:53 PM
  #205  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

Personally I have never had any problems with either of my VXL setups. In my Slash I have the complete VXL system and it works fine and has never given me any problems. In my Erevo I have the VXL esc and a feigao 8xl and that works great as well. I use lipos with both setups. Some times I run my 2 cell lipos and some times my 3. But no matter what I run in them they always run fine.
Old 10-11-2008, 03:01 PM
  #206  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

@vge

Dude... you obviously haven't read the the previous pages of this thread... sure the VXL is an ok and idiot proof system, but it lacks the real tuning capabilities, has problems with the power posts coming unsoldered and most people can't stand the cogging at slow speeds. IMO Castle Creations has a superior product.

EDIT: However, the VXL motor is probably better than Castle's motors. That's why a Mamba or Sidewinder with the VXL motor is a good way to go!
Old 10-11-2008, 04:48 PM
  #207  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba


ORIGINAL: simplecj

@vge

Dude... you obviously haven't read the the previous pages of this thread... sure the VXL is an ok and idiot proof system, but it lacks the real tuning capabilities, has problems with the power posts coming unsoldered and most people can't stand the cogging at slow speeds. IMO Castle Creations has a superior product.

EDIT: However, the VXL motor is probably better than Castle's motors. That's why a Mamba or Sidewinder with the VXL motor is a good way to go!
actually the new version of the vxl esc no longer has the post problem. traxxas will replace free and give you a new version.

this is a pic of the newest vxl esc version.
Old 10-11-2008, 04:52 PM
  #208  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba


ORIGINAL: simplecj

@vge

Dude... you obviously haven't read the the previous pages of this thread... sure the VXL is an ok and idiot proof system, but it lacks the real tuning capabilities, has problems with the power posts coming unsoldered and most people can't stand the cogging at slow speeds. IMO Castle Creations has a superior product.

EDIT: However, the VXL motor is probably better than Castle's motors. That's why a Mamba or Sidewinder with the VXL motor is a good way to go!

You contradicted yourself....You say the VXL has cogging problems, yet you recommend it over the Castle motor...which is it? And if that were the case wouldn't a sensored motor be better than both VXL and Castle? Like perhaps a Novak?
Old 10-11-2008, 05:33 PM
  #209  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

VGE - You are 100% right on that one. They have a newer version, and that's part of the reason I sold my Mamba. The new one is very nice, and IMO better then the CC stuff.
VVRC- Yes, a sensored motor would be better, and then again the VXL takes the lead. The VXL can run sensored motors in sensored mode, the Mamba cannot...

Not to talk about how much better quality the VXL motors are then the overheating CM36 series.
Old 10-11-2008, 05:42 PM
  #210  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

ORIGINAL: VVRC


ORIGINAL: simplecj

@vge

Dude... you obviously haven't read the the previous pages of this thread... sure the VXL is an ok and idiot proof system, but it lacks the real tuning capabilities, has problems with the power posts coming unsoldered and most people can't stand the cogging at slow speeds. IMO Castle Creations has a superior product.

EDIT: However, the VXL motor is probably better than Castle's motors. That's why a Mamba or Sidewinder with the VXL motor is a good way to go!

You contradicted yourself....You say the VXL has cogging problems, yet you recommend it over the Castle motor...which is it? And if that were the case wouldn't a sensored motor be better than both VXL and Castle? Like perhaps a Novak?
I did NOT contradict myself... it's not the motor that causes cogging, it's the ESC... the VXL ESC coggs (I guess this may have been fixed), the VXL motor is fine... sorry I wasn't specific enough for you.

Even with the cogging issue fixed, I still think the CC ESC's are better... aside from the AM radio problem. Being able to adjust timing, punch control, brake, drag break and reverse are well worth it! Who want's 100% reverse and 100% Braking all the time?? It honestly makes the car more enjoyable to drive when you can tune it to your liking.

My settings:
Punch control: 30%
Reverse: 70%
Drag brake: 20%
Brake: 80%
Timing: 0
Old 10-11-2008, 05:54 PM
  #211  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

If they fixed the ESC cogging problems, I might go with traxxas because I don't want to pay $100+ on a new FM radio system.
Old 10-11-2008, 05:55 PM
  #212  
simplecj
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

I would have sold you my FM set for like $80... but hey, that's cool, go with what you feel is right for you. I admit if the cogging has been fixed then it's definately a step up on the VXL end... it just depends. If you're tight on money then ya the VXL is probably better to go with, you can always get the Sidewinder later.

I actually was able to trade my VLX motor/esc set for an old Rustler and a Futaba 3PM Transmitter & now I have two trucks!
Old 10-11-2008, 05:59 PM
  #213  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba


ORIGINAL: simplecj

ORIGINAL: VVRC


ORIGINAL: simplecj

@vge

Dude... you obviously haven't read the the previous pages of this thread... sure the VXL is an ok and idiot proof system, but it lacks the real tuning capabilities, has problems with the power posts coming unsoldered and most people can't stand the cogging at slow speeds. IMO Castle Creations has a superior product.

EDIT: However, the VXL motor is probably better than Castle's motors. That's why a Mamba or Sidewinder with the VXL motor is a good way to go!

You contradicted yourself....You say the VXL has cogging problems, yet you recommend it over the Castle motor...which is it? And if that were the case wouldn't a sensored motor be better than both VXL and Castle? Like perhaps a Novak?
I did NOT contradict myself... it's not the motor that causes cogging, it's the ESC... the VXL ESC coggs (I guess this may have been fixed), the VXL motor is fine... sorry I wasn't specific enough for you.

Even with the cogging issue fixed, I still think the CC ESC's are better... aside from the AM radio problem. Being able to adjust timing, punch control, brake, drag break and reverse are well worth it! Who want's 100% reverse and 100% Braking all the time?? It honestly makes the car more enjoyable to drive when you can tune it to your liking.

My settings:
Punch control: 30%
Reverse: 70%
Drag brake: 20%
Brake: 80%
Timing: 0
Most if not all sensorless brushless systems will have some cogging. Even the Mamba has cogging. The reason it's not as noticable, is because of Castles new software. That said, I do not have any cogging problems with my VXL, it's smooth, IMO even smoother then my Mamba was. When I had my Mamba (In my Rustler, Warhead, and Raze) I had punch control to 0 (funnest), reverse 100% (just didn't stomp on it), drag brake off (IMO just a waste), brake 90-100%, timing medium (standard). That was perfect for me, and that's about what the VXL is. When your in a real car and you go in reverse do you just hammer it? Or do you SLOWLY push on the gas. It's like that with R/C, sometimes you just need to ease into it. If/when my dad gets his Shelby, I can guarentee you that he wont be asking ford, "Can you please give me 40% punch control, Umm only about 50% reverse." Why? Because it takes away from the cars power, and it makes it not as fun to drive. I feel the same about R/C. That's up to you. Maybe you like a well tuned car. I on the other hand like something that I have to "tame."

The only reason I could see wanting the Mamba is for a 1/8 conversion, a track (racers, but still, can't run sensored mode). Other then that, I want a system that I can plug in and go, that just works. The VXL systems are very reliable, especially since the ESC plug problem was fixed. Plus, it doesn't have everything just sticking out like the Mamba does. Either way, if the little cogging that the VXL has really bothers you, atleast you can run sensored mode later on. That's more then I can say for the Mamba Max. Another thing, the VXL can handle more power then the Mamba, it's been proven on RCU. If it wasn't for the limiters that Traxxas has on it, I'm sure it would be used much more for 1/8 conversions.

About warranty, Traxxas has replaced 5 of my VXL ESC's with brand new units free of charge. This was because of the plug problem, which like I said has been fixed. Doesn't get much better then that....
Old 10-11-2008, 06:03 PM
  #214  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

So they fixed the wire problem on the VXLs? Im doin up my stampede and wanted to get away as cheap as possible with a sensored 9.5 motor. I'm really having issues with the LRP A.I. Pro I got. Just sent it off today again. I may consider cutting my losses on the a.i. and getting a vxl esc then. Like I said, I wish the mamba had a sensored port, I know they believe in using back emf and all that jazz, but just supporting sensored motors in that respect would open the esc to alot more people. Especially racers, some use them already, but I bet they'd use the hall sensor if they had the option.
Old 10-11-2008, 06:10 PM
  #215  
Always Dreamin
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Default RE: velineon or mamba


ORIGINAL: 1maxdude

So they fixed the wire problem on the VXLs? Im doin up my stampede and wanted to get away as cheap as possible with a sensored 9.5 motor. I'm really having issues with the LRP A.I. Pro I got. Just sent it off today again. I may consider cutting my losses on the a.i. and getting a vxl esc then. Like I said, I wish the mamba had a sensored port, I know they believe in using back emf and all that jazz, but just supporting sensored motors in that respect would open the esc to alot more people. Especially racers, some use them already, but I bet they'd use the hall sensor if they had the option.
Ya. Before the bullets were directly soldered to the ESC. Now, wires are attached to the board, with plugs at the end. Like the Sidwinder/Mamba. The A.I. is a high grade ESC, maybe you got a lemon, but I wouldn't trade that for a VXL. The A.I. pro is in a different class then the VXL and Mamba.

The Losi Xcelorin is IMO one of the best ESC's out too.
Old 10-11-2008, 06:13 PM
  #216  
simplecj
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

Good God AlwaysDreamin... we know we know... you're the freakin MASTER of throttle control. [:-] And you've obviously got the hots for the the VXL.. AND if you had a Mamba and you left everything pretty much to full power default position, then why the hell did you even buy a Mamba?

My truck is still plenty wild even with the tuning, you act like tuning it down makes it a sluggish slow piece of **** that requires no throttle control and you couldn't be further from the truth. Maybe you are better off with a noob-proof system... Point is, before tuning, both the VXL and the CC esc's have way more acceleration and speed than the truck can realistically handle... of course for a throttle-god such as yourself it probably doesn't make a difference huh?

As far as the VXL warranty, how come my friend had to pay $50 to get his ESC replaced after one of the plugs came out??
Old 10-11-2008, 06:23 PM
  #217  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

ORIGINAL: simplecj

Good God AlwaysDreamin... we know we know... you're the freakin MASTER of throttle control. [:-] And you've obviously got the hots for the the VXL.. AND if you had a Mamba and you left everything pretty much to full power default position, then why the hell did you even buy a Mamba?

My truck is still plenty wild even with the tuning, you act like tuning it down makes it a sluggish slow piece of **** that requires no throttle control and you couldn't be further from the truth. Maybe you are better off with a noob-proof system... Point is, before tuning, both the VXL and the CC esc's have way more acceleration and speed than the truck can realistically handle... of course for a throttle-god such as yourself it probably doesn't make a difference huh?

As far as the VXL warranty, how come my friend had to pay $50 to get his ESC replaced after one of the plugs came out??
Your friend probably didn't stand up for himself... I simply told them that there was no way in hell I was going to pay them for a problem that was their fault. I wrote them a nice letter saying how PO'd I was, and they said they would replace it, for the 5th time. Doesn't matter, because they got it right, and now they have a newer model.

I'm not the master, I just feel like that's part of the fun (controlling the car). I bought the Mamba because people like you said it was so good. I messed with all the settings, but I felt that the stock ones were pretty decent. I did like some of the features, but IMO it wasn't worth the extra money. As long as we are talking about combo for combo, I like the VXL more. The ESC's alone are debatable, but I have no problems with the VXL, and for the price, IMO it's a winner.

I wasn't trying to offend you. I'm in no way the throttle god, but i'm flattered.

Let's just say that I like the VXL more and leave it at that... I think that for the average person getting into brushless, you can't go wrong with the VXL system.

Tell you what, I will go out and take a video of my VXL running. You guys can be the judge.
Old 10-11-2008, 06:38 PM
  #218  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

Thanks for all your help guys, I've decided on just getting a VXL and leaving it at that. If it's not the new ESC then I'll demand traxxas replace it for me for FREE! If I still have cogging problems after that, I'll see about a Mamba.

EDIT: How do I tell if it's the new ESC? Do any of you guys have a picture for me?
Last thing, can I turn off low voltage detection on the vxl ESC since I'll be using nihm batteries?
Old 10-11-2008, 06:45 PM
  #219  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

ORIGINAL: simplecj

ORIGINAL: VVRC


ORIGINAL: simplecj

@vge

Dude... you obviously haven't read the the previous pages of this thread... sure the VXL is an ok and idiot proof system, but it lacks the real tuning capabilities, has problems with the power posts coming unsoldered and most people can't stand the cogging at slow speeds. IMO Castle Creations has a superior product.

EDIT: However, the VXL motor is probably better than Castle's motors. That's why a Mamba or Sidewinder with the VXL motor is a good way to go!

You contradicted yourself....You say the VXL has cogging problems, yet you recommend it over the Castle motor...which is it? And if that were the case wouldn't a sensored motor be better than both VXL and Castle? Like perhaps a Novak?
I did NOT contradict myself... it's not the motor that causes cogging, it's the ESC... the VXL ESC coggs (I guess this may have been fixed), the VXL motor is fine... sorry I wasn't specific enough for you.

Even with the cogging issue fixed, I still think the CC ESC's are better... aside from the AM radio problem. Being able to adjust timing, punch control, brake, drag break and reverse are well worth it! Who want's 100% reverse and 100% Braking all the time?? It honestly makes the car more enjoyable to drive when you can tune it to your liking.

My settings:
Punch control: 30%
Reverse: 70%
Drag brake: 20%
Brake: 80%
Timing: 0

Someone needs to take a freakin' MIDOL...AND NO you are wrong it is not the ESC's that COGG it IS THE MOTOR!!!

Actually the cogging effect (technically known as detent)
is due to pole construction. The windings have no effect.

The cog or detent is the point at which the center of the magnets
perfectly line up with the ideal magnetic path through
the poles.

This detent can be sharp or soft depending on pole construction.

A straight pole (no twist) along it's length will have
a sharp detent.

A twisted pole will have less. This is because for different
points along the rotor the magnetic "perfect" point is at a different
point in the rotation of the rotor.

Pole shape also has a factor in the detent amount as does air gap between the rotor and poles.

The drawback is loss of torque, high detent motors have higher
peak torque and better efficiency than low detent motors.

The positives are smoother operation.

The motor will not detent/cog at zero current if
there is no magnets in the design. No magnetic
force = no cogging.

Take a midol....bro!!
Old 10-11-2008, 07:09 PM
  #220  
simplecj
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

ORIGINAL: VVRC

Someone needs to take a freakin' MIDOL...AND NO you are wrong it is not the ESC's that COGG it IS THE MOTOR!!!

Actually the cogging effect (technically known as detent)
is due to pole construction. The windings have no effect.

The cog or detent is the point at which the center of the magnets
perfectly line up with the ideal magnetic path through
the poles.

This detent can be sharp or soft depending on pole construction.

A straight pole (no twist) along it's length will have
a sharp detent.

A twisted pole will have less. This is because for different
points along the rotor the magnetic "perfect" point is at a different
point in the rotation of the rotor.

Pole shape also has a factor in the detent amount as does air gap between the rotor and poles.

The drawback is loss of torque, high detent motors have higher
peak torque and better efficiency than low detent motors.

The positives are smoother operation.

The motor will not detent/cog at zero current if
there is no magnets in the design. No magnetic
force = no cogging.

Take a midol....bro!!
First of all... F#ck you, I'm not your bro!

Secondly... If it's the motor and NOT the esc that causes cogging then how did Traxxas fix the cogging problem by improving their ESC?? And why did the VXL combo cogg, but the Sidewinder with the VXL motor didn't?? HUH??

Last of all... Why don't you go take a whole bottle of aspirin.. pr!ck..

I know you thought you were being smart with the whole pole explanation, but you missed my point altogether...
Old 10-11-2008, 07:43 PM
  #221  
ISIRC10
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

LOL, this is getting a little bit heated...

I got a Mamba Max recently, and running my cheapish NIMH packs, I am getting respectable run times, speeds of about 35 (give or take a few due to conditions), good acceleration, and a lot of fun. The temps usualy peak in the battery packs, coming in at 150 degrees F on 90 degree weather. The motor and ESC are surprisingly cool (100-120), so I realy don't know why everyone is bashing the Mamba for its heat issues. I may not be pushing this system as others are, but in my yard, just plain o'l bashing and jumping, I find the speeds I get out of the system to be perfect. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't have too much fun driving a car back and forth at highway speeds (and I probably wouldn't have the room to do it either). My point is that it is all in your situation and driving style. If you are such a good driver that you can hit a jump at 70mph, go for it, but I prefer to have some fun at more managable speeds. As of the VXL being a better system than the Mamba, I don't think that there is realy such an incredible difference (or at least at the speeds that I am driving at) My friend has a VXL Bandit, I have a Mamba T4, and its still a pretty even drag race using similar batteries. Of course you can't realy compare a truck to a buggy, but in reality, the fun you have driving a system is all that counts. (At least for me...)

As of speaking of pure speed, how many records have been set with a Mamba ESC? and how much have been set with the VXL? either way, the motors that come with both are not used anyway, so that says one thing. For outright outrageous speeds, get a motor that doesn't skimp in quality. if you want a speedster ESC, get a castle one. If you just want to have fun bashing around, get a VXL, its lower price may be a plus for you. (not saying you can't have fun bashing with a mamba!) I made the decision to go with a mamba because putting a VXL in a T4 would just sound silly (IMO). I also liked castle's great customer support, and the fact that if one day I would have enough $$$$ to upgrade to lipos, I would be able to control and tweak my ESC to help match my driving conditions. My main pet peive with the VXL and traxxas is the connectors that they have introduced. Why not use an industry standard? there may not be a performance difference, but in my opinion, there are enough companies using Deans plugs as a standard for no-loss connectors that Traxxas should just jump on the band wagon and use them also, instead of "reinventing the plug." I say this cause my freind and I share batts some times and he had to change the connectors on the ESC to accomodate all of his batts and chargers.

I may not have added any distinct leverage on the issue, but these are just my 2c on the issue...
Old 10-11-2008, 08:15 PM
  #222  
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Default RE: velineon or mamba


ORIGINAL: MuggyDude

Thanks for all your help guys, I've decided on just getting a VXL and leaving it at that. If it's not the new ESC then I'll demand traxxas replace it for me for FREE! If I still have cogging problems after that, I'll see about a Mamba.

EDIT: How do I tell if it's the new ESC? Do any of you guys have a picture for me?
Last thing, can I turn off low voltage detection on the vxl ESC since I'll be using nihm batteries?
Ok for starters, the way you can tell it is the new version is if the wires actually come off the esc. It should not have the three open pots on the esc for you to push the wires in.

Second, I never said anything about cogging in my post about the newer version. What I said is that I never experienced this problem. I did before have one with a broken pot, but it was replaced and now i have two vxl systems with the newer esc.
THird, I also find it funny about how many people complain and complain about the vxl system in general. For starters for the price its the best damn thing on the market for value and what you get IMHO. Also maybe people should really learn how to drive before they decide to get into brushless altogether? I have yet to see a brushless system out there that I would recommend to someone that can barely drive a 19t rc. People are so into speed and people putting 4 - 6 cell lipos on these things. Honestly what do you expect? Yes the CC kits can be tunned up or down. But really does it make that much of a difference? I have adjusted mine on a couple of my micros that use them and it really doesnt make much of a difference. Bottom line is this...Everyone wants to run modified but some people just need to stick to the stock class.
Old 10-11-2008, 08:22 PM
  #223  
VVRC
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Default RE: velineon or mamba

ORIGINAL: simplecj

ORIGINAL: VVRC

Someone needs to take a freakin' MIDOL...AND NO you are wrong it is not the ESC's that COGG it IS THE MOTOR!!!

Actually the cogging effect (technically known as detent)
is due to pole construction. The windings have no effect.

The cog or detent is the point at which the center of the magnets
perfectly line up with the ideal magnetic path through
the poles.

This detent can be sharp or soft depending on pole construction.

A straight pole (no twist) along it's length will have
a sharp detent.

A twisted pole will have less. This is because for different
points along the rotor the magnetic "perfect" point is at a different
point in the rotation of the rotor.

Pole shape also has a factor in the detent amount as does air gap between the rotor and poles.

The drawback is loss of torque, high detent motors have higher
peak torque and better efficiency than low detent motors.

The positives are smoother operation.

The motor will not detent/cog at zero current if
there is no magnets in the design. No magnetic
force = no cogging.

Take a midol....bro!!
First of all... F#ck you, I'm not your bro!

Secondly... If it's the motor and NOT the esc that causes cogging then how did Traxxas fix the cogging problem by improving their ESC?? And why did the VXL combo cogg, but the Sidewinder with the VXL motor didn't?? HUH??

Last of all... Why don't you go take a whole bottle of aspirin.. pr!ck..

I know you thought you were being smart with the whole pole explanation, but you missed my point altogether...

So you resort to cussing...wow, what a superior mind we have here folks! I am not being an ass, you were. And I don't "think I'm being smart"....I just am smart.

BTW....Reported
Old 10-11-2008, 08:26 PM
  #224  
VVRC
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Default RE: velineon or mamba


ORIGINAL: vge


But really does it make that much of a difference? I have adjusted mine on a couple of my micros that use them and it really doesnt make much of a difference. Bottom line is this...Everyone wants to run modified but some people just need to stick to the stock class.

+1
Old 10-11-2008, 08:34 PM
  #225  
Always Dreamin
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Default RE: velineon or mamba


ORIGINAL: vge


ORIGINAL: MuggyDude

Thanks for all your help guys, I've decided on just getting a VXL and leaving it at that. If it's not the new ESC then I'll demand traxxas replace it for me for FREE! If I still have cogging problems after that, I'll see about a Mamba.

EDIT: How do I tell if it's the new ESC? Do any of you guys have a picture for me?
Last thing, can I turn off low voltage detection on the vxl ESC since I'll be using nihm batteries?
Ok for starters, the way you can tell it is the new version is if the wires actually come off the esc. It should not have the three open pots on the esc for you to push the wires in.

Second, I never said anything about cogging in my post about the newer version. What I said is that I never experienced this problem. I did before have one with a broken pot, but it was replaced and now i have two vxl systems with the newer esc.
THird, I also find it funny about how many people complain and complain about the vxl system in general. For starters for the price its the best damn thing on the market for value and what you get IMHO. Also maybe people should really learn how to drive before they decide to get into brushless altogether? I have yet to see a brushless system out there that I would recommend to someone that can barely drive a 19t rc. People are so into speed and people putting 4 - 6 cell lipos on these things. Honestly what do you expect? Yes the CC kits can be tunned up or down. But really does it make that much of a difference? I have adjusted mine on a couple of my micros that use them and it really doesnt make much of a difference. Bottom line is this...Everyone wants to run modified but some people just need to stick to the stock class.
Well put. I agree 100%. The VXL systems got me into brushless, and I will never go back. I have also taken some footage. I will upload it tonight, so stay tuned.

Ahh, what a great post. [8D]

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