bhcvc

Beginner to RC here looking for a truck to have fun at parks, city, and any other areas my wife and I happen to find. I've been looking at the HPI E-Firestorm and Traxxas Stampede. They're quite different, one being more of a stadium truck, the other a monster truck. Thus far, my Nikko trucks from toys-r-us have served us well, but we want something faster.
What are the pros and cons of each for beginners like ourselves in the environments we plan to use them in?
We don't ever see ourselves racing, but may find ourselves at a local track. Would the additional ground clearance of the Stampede be of great help going over grass, rocks, etc. at parks and outdoors? Or would the E-Firestorm handle those things just fine? Which would take a beating better? I've read the Firestorm is quite well built, but also that the Rustler/Stampede have big followings and are known to take a beating well (tho I've also read the Rustler/Stampede have cheaper made parts that can break more easily, but replacements are cheap).

I'd really like an electric 4WD, but the E-Savage is a bit pricey for us and the requirement for 2 battery packs is less attractive. Would 4WD offer any advantages over RWD (like climbing up curbs and what not)?

Last question, how hard would it be to run 2 or 3 packs in parallel on the Firestorm or Stampede for more runtime?

Thanks!

sheograth

I'd go with the E-Firestorm, the stampede is fine but it drives more like a toy car in my opinion. The E-firestorm handles more aggressively (partly due to the fact that its simply not a 2wd monster truck). If you want a monster, save the money and get a 4wd one like the E-savage or E-maxx 3905, frankly getting a 2wd MT is kinda pointless to me. You get all the disadvantages of a monster, high center of gravity, poor handling - without the 4wd climbing and crawling ability.

As for running 2 packs in parallel, you can - just make sure theyre identical packs. If they're not, the loads can be unequal and one or both packs could become damaged. Frankly I'd just buy one high capacity pack, running 2 adds weight and complexity to your setup, and you'll have to figure out how to shoehorn it in there.

Eman77

Interesting question, E-firestorm vs. Pede.

I have the Stampede, but got it when there was no E-firestorm. I do enjoy goofing around with my Pede, and have a load of fun. I really like jumping with it, and it seems to take body rolls well (I've rolled it a lot). I took an XL-5 Pede and put a bit more $$ into it, with wider front/rear a-arms (for stability), Imex wheels/tires, metal idler gear (to handle brushless power), Novak SS5800 brushless system (motor/esc), RPM bearing carriers and bearings to fit, RPM bumper, wheelie bar, and maybe more I'm forgetting.

That said, I've spent a lot more $$ modding my Pede from stock form....I don't want to think about the $$ amount. LOL The E-Firestorm comes with a lot of the "toughener" stuff stock, so that's really nice. I also love the look of it, it would be a fun truck.

But sheograth is right - I've regretted not getting 4WD in a MT for a bit...at the time, I didn't want to pay the money for a Savage, but I've dumped enough into this Pede anyway.

It's a tough call, MT vs. ST - looking at that E-Firestorm, it's tough to pass up. Given what one might spend in upgrades to the Pede (like me), the Firestorm might be a better choice. It will do better on the track.

The thing that occured to me was that although the Pede's ground clearance is higher than an ST, the real obstacle I found was the stock Pede tires are no good in grass. With my new ones, it's great - but this simply points to the fact that ground clearance isn't everything (depending on your terrain) - grippy tires help a ton.

Anyway, I'm babbling. Better stop now...

Eman77

A few pics of mine, for fun. I say get the Firestorm for you, and let us know how you like it!

DARKWAV

Sheograth hit the nail on the head about a 2WD monster truck. That additional ground clearance is really only advantageous with 4WD. If you're running on the kind of terrain that needs that type of clearance than you will also need all four wheel turning to get a good controlled run at speed or to pull the truck up and over obstables at a slower pace. The only advantage I see a 2WD monster having over a 2WD ST is ability to run in a bit higher grass…but coming at the expense of high speed manueverability.

The E-Firestorm is my favorite R/C…but I don't think I could say that about it if I hadn't updgraded it to brushless (It has a very similar system that the soon to be released E-Firestorm Flux will have). Out of the box the brushed version it really isn't all that fast. It's fine for out in the neighborhood street and even on a 1/10 scale off-road track. But you bring it to a big wide open park and it will seem slow. The grassy parks I have run my truck at have had a durable, short cut turf so ground clearance was not an issue.

As for batteries, there really isn't any point in loading the truck up with the additional weight of a second set of batteries in parallel. It will accelerate slower, will not go as fast, will consume more power, and crashes will be more severe. Swapping out batteries gives the motor a chance to cool down. Plus you can do a quick inspection before you head out again to make sure nothings about to fall off.

The E-Savage is an interesting truck. I picked one up recently because I have some terrain where I live that just isn't suitable to a 2WD 1/10. Out of the box it is quite a bit faster than the brushed E-Firestorm. It is a lot more versatile. Very durable. So I can really see how this makes for a pretty good do everything truck right out of the box. But, as you recognize it reaquires twice as many batteries. Now if I didn't have that rough terrain requiring more clearance than my E-Firestrom has, and some cobbled slopes that required 4WD to climb, I would not have thought to get the E-Savage.

So I would really have to say that for all-purpose all-terrain bashing, the E-Savage (and probably T-Maxx) is a better platform. For racing, running in the streets and wide-open parks or fields where higher ground clearance is not required, a brushless stadium truck is more fun.

Access

Yeah here's the thing about grass or terrain in general, it's either short cut or it's not worth running on at all. If the grass isn't well-kept, if it's overgrown to the point where you need a 'pede to run on it, the drag will be so bad that the runtimes will be awful and you won't have much fun. The same can be said about the rocks or other terrain. The 'pede might be able to take them but you're either going to be crawling along or your runtime is going to go down to nothing. For well-cut grass, Stadium trucks work out just fine.

drevil

My Feedback: (5)

Either one will suit you just fine. I say goto your local hobby shop and see what they stock the most parts for. No sense getting one if you've got to order parts for it every week.

Personally if I was going for a stadium truck I'd spend a few bucks more and get the Team Associated T4RS RTR. I had an RC10GT and that thing was pretty much indestructible.

fusebmx13

i would go with the stampede. i tis all what you like. you have to think. would i mainly use this truck for onroad, track, and dirt use or do i like the taller truck that will handle bigger things? my brother owns a rustler and i own a stampede. they are both indestructable. i get big ***** air with mine with a few scratches on my body lol. i just love it. the stampede is a fun type play car but the firestorm is a bit more serious. i like wheelies also with the stampede.

Access

Either one of these is very sturdy, I have been running my E-firestorm for 4 months and not had to replace anything; and I have an older model 'Pede and had to replace some of the wheel nuts about a year ago and that was it. I have jumped the 'pede repeatedly and never broke anything, done a lot of flips and end-over-end rollovers on the E-firestorm and same story. Unless you are jumping them off your roof or something you are not going to have to replace parts every week.

Eman77

Maybe I'm harder on my Pede than some of you guys (although I doubt it), but I've broken a few things on mine - snapped the bottom of the tranny off where the lower rear a-arm hinges to it, sheared the front caster block, twisted the wheelie bar. Overall I think it's pretty durable, but let's not mislead folks into thinking they are indestructible. All that does it set expectations too high.

fusebmx13

well if you think about it, no rc is really indestructable. everything could and might break. it is just the chance you have to take. some people have very good luck and some have none.

Eman77

True true...but some like to carry on about the Pede/Rusty like you can throw them against a wall and not break anything. LOL I guess I'm just responding to that in general on RCU (not just this thread). Anyhow, yep they're pretty durable. I'd love to see what that Firestorm can do though, it looks stout.

bhcvc

Thanks for all the great info guys! Does anyone know if the E-Firestorm can be raised just a bit?...maybe half an inch or so via longer shocks or something? I'm leaning toward the E-Firestorm.

Out of curiosity, what is the (expected) performance diff between the brushed and brushless setup?

Thanks.

VXL BURRITO

I'm not sure about raising it, more than likely that can be done. Brushless is FAST! Depending on the battery you get I might add. There's virtually no maintenance with brushless motors too. They also won't have to be replaced as much like brushed. With my vxl Pede with Masher 2k's(just got them), I can pop wheelies on command even at high speeds. And the Pede will break w/ some hard bashing on concrete(skate park) lol. Landed on front bumper pretty hard a couple times on concrete. There are some pics of mine. Parts only costed me $25. Very cheap for all I broke and stripped.

bhcvc

How long do the brushes in brushed motors last before needing replacement?

fusebmx13

well it depends because if you break them in some they will last longer. but if not they will be eaten through. but you cant change the brushes on that e firestorm they are internal i think. i would just get an rtr brushless. you will want brushless anyways in the future.

but i think they will last about 6-8 runs. thats what i get. with a pack that lasts about 30 minutes.

VXL BURRITO

I think they would last longer than that many runs. You're saying if I took it out everday for a week, I would have to get a new motor. I HIGHLY doubt they last 6-8 runs. Maybe like 20-25 If you take care of it and only run it for like 30 minutes each run then probably longer.

fusebmx13

okay ggeees bite my head off for having so much fun driving my car and not waisting my time counting the number of times i have to change my brushes. i do clean my motor every other run so if your saying i dont take care of my car then you have issues buddy.

DARKWAV

...maybe you're having too much fun. Stop that!

VXL BURRITO

Sorry, I wasn't trying to bite your head off lol. I guess I came off a little strong. I didn't say anything about you not taking care of your car, I believe you. I just couldn't see brushed motors lasting on the market if you had to change them every week or two... If you take care of your car it will take care of you . But they are definitely a lot of fun.

Eman77- I've broken mine too(only once) and I've had it for about a month and a half. For how hard I bas it and run into things I'm kinda surprised it hasn't broken anything else. I've taken some pretty hard hits straight into the tire, like into trees, and nothing happened. Very durable truck. These things are very fun to play with and cheap to replace parts.

haole

My brushes on my pede with speed gems 16T motor used to last about 10+- runs at about 20min each. I hated it! so i got a vxl and now im replacing body parts every 10 runs because of the insane speeds. I highly recomend going brushless, I dont understand why the brushed RTR's havent dropped as much as they have lately?!

Lilredmachine

Cos brushed is still the mainstream, and brushless is still prohibitively expensive. Besides, there are portions of RC that brushless is less useful for over brushed, crawlers for example. If you want to point and squirt then that's great, lob a ridiculous lipo into your bl'd Rustler/Stampede etc. and have it cog, jerk, then flip/take off at the slightest throttle extension, the rest of us will be racing and turning faster lap times with our 19t racing stadium trucks. The motor in that E-firestorm will last a good 2 years, ten runs my arse. The motors in my E-sav have been going for 2 years now and they are closed endbell pmdc motors with unchangeable brushes. Now that's reliability. Plus if I wanted, I could run a zero maintenance brushed setup that would yield 1000 watts and 45 mph (In a MONSTER TRUCK) for about $120, most of which being the ESC, and if I did burn a motor, they'd be about $8 to replace, so it wouldn't really bother me.

Brushless is fast, but it still has issues (drives like a dog unless it's sensored, then it's usually even more expensive and less versatile) and it's not as reliable as it is supposed to be, there are guys using E-savages/E-maxxes that get through BL motors like no tomorrow.

Don't get me wrong, I have dabbled in brushless, I have a pretty radical brushless'd, lipo'd MLST2 and a very radical Kershaw brushless E-maxx/Revo hybrid, and they are both shockingly fast, but to write off brushed as a motive power because another has appeared with different pros and cons is just silly, and makes me a bit angry.

Access

Brushed motors can last as long as 50 runs but others can barely go 3. It depends on the motor and how race-tuned it is. A raceable stock 27-turn might need new brushes after 3 runs (2 quals and a race). A super stock 19-turn reedy quad mag might make 10 runs before it needs replacing and a mabuchi 540 could run about 50 times before needing replacement (at this point you just replaced the motor). It all depends on how the motor is set up and how race-tuned it is.

And brushless is not prohibitively expensive there are $69. 1/10th scale brushless ESCs and there are cheap motors too.

redbarton

You know bhcvc, I'm kind of in the same boat as you, but under different circumstances. I currently have a very modified Stampede. Even with all the wide mods and other so called performance changes, this thing still handles like a dog, though a much improved one over stock. Sure, it does have good clearance and might be a better extreme jumper than most 2WD ST's. However, I get really sick of the constant wheelies and not being able to steer more precisely. I hate to admit it, but I think I'm going to sell my [link=http://www.ultimaterc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72322]baby[/link] (minus the Mamba Max 5700) and try out the Firestorm. I'd really like something that will handle bashing and easy club racing at the same time. I never thought I would consider this, but I think it's time for a change.

DARKWAV

I got at least 40 runs (1 run = draining a 3000 mAh battery) through my E-Firestorm's original brushed motor. I would run 3-4 batteries through it in a session. That's about 10 minutes of bash time per battery since you factor in having to retreive your truck from the bushes or flip it back over after a crazy cartwheel or bad landing. Five minutes to swap out the battery, inspect for damage or loose fasterners, and maybe do some quick course maintenance and crack open a fresh beverage. So 4 batteries is easily good for a solid hour of play-time. 20 more minutes of clean-up and closer inspection after getting home.

Anyway that motor isn't dead, but I was ready to go brushless at that point because I was bored with it. I mean it was fine on a small track but needed more speed to run it at an 1/8 scale track or in a large open area. Plus even in the small area I was running it in, 2/3 into the run I would loose a lot of punch and speed so that last 1/3 of the run wasn't all that fun. I was seriously looking into a nice 19 Turn motor in the $40 range, but I was told that I would need to replace brushes in that thing about every 10 runs. So I would easily be replacing brushes once or twice per month! Plus it was also recommended to get the comm cut maybe every other time I replaced brushes!

So I spent $130 on a brushless system (plus about $10-15 on assorted Deans for batteries, ESC and chargers). Since the brushless system is more efficient, I pretty much get similar run times but a lot more punch and speed, plus the truck is still plenty flast right up to where the battery is exhausted. This truck is so much fun. I'm not going back to brushed on this stadium truck. I'm just going to have to learn how to race in mod class.

Castle's 1.17 firmware eliminates cogging issues, so as far as smoothness goes, they've finally closed the gap between sensorless and brushed motors.

I still have to figure things out with the E-Savage. Brushless systems for Micro's and light-weight 1/10 may be mature but it still isn't quite there yet for larger vehicles as Lilred has pointed out. Reliability isn't proven and systems have to be cobbled together (which I'm sure a lot of folks find quite fun). So I'll probably run brushed on that E-Savage for a while. Fortunately performance of that truck right out of the box and the lifespan of those larger 550 motors makes for less of a need, if any, to go brushless. I don't know, we'll see.

But for a 1/10 buggy or stadium truck, it is well worth the cost of going brushless for the performance improvements, efficiency, and ease of maintenance it offers.