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novak super sport question

Old 03-28-2009, 09:14 AM
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gguertin145
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Default novak super sport question

my dad is buying a supersport esc and supersport 5800 motor off ebay...

I looked up the esc on novak and dont see answers to my questions so thought i would ask here...

can that esc handle a 2 cell lipo?
can that esc handle a 13.5 ss motor too or is it limited to the 5800 or 4800 or whatever the other speed was on those motors?

Thanks!
Old 03-28-2009, 09:45 AM
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sabbath
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Default RE: novak super sport question

http://teamnovak.com/products/brushl..._chart_web.gif

It list here as going to 7 cells at 1.2 ea = 8.4v.

http://teamnovak.com/products/brushl...lus/index.html
Old 03-28-2009, 09:58 AM
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redfisher1974
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Default RE: novak super sport question

It will handle the 13.5 no problem...
Old 03-28-2009, 10:00 AM
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gguertin145
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Default RE: novak super sport question

so if someone wanted to use it for occasional SS class racing it should be fine? with a 2 cell lipo?
Old 03-28-2009, 12:58 PM
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NovakTwo
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Default RE: novak super sport question


ORIGINAL: gguertin145

so if someone wanted to use it for occasional SS class racing it should be fine? with a 2 cell lipo?

The Novak Super Sport escs were designed prior to the "lipo age" of R/C racing. They do not include the lipo cut-off circuitry offered in our current BL controllers.

If you are concerned about protecting your lipos, you can use one of our SmartStop lipo cut-off modules:

Novak SmartStop Modules

Old 03-28-2009, 01:11 PM
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Krawlin
 
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Default RE: novak super sport question

Or contrary to popular belief of many racers, sensorless systems are now extremely smooth (just ask anyone who uses a system like the Mamba Monster Max combo in a 1/8 buggy or truggy conversion), just as smooth as sensored systems, so you could go with like a Mamba Max ESC with a good sensorless racing motor. The advantage of systems by brands other than Novak are that most are now computer programmable, a big plus for racing, because there are so many tuning options, plus the LiPo cutoff is built right in and you can set it right from your computer. Now don't get me wrong, Novak systems are good for racing, it's a known fact, however at a lower cost, you can get a high quality sensorless system that has LiPo cutoff built in, which means less weight because you don't need and external LVC, and will be just as smooth as a Novak system and could easily be faster as well as more tunable.
Old 03-28-2009, 01:13 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question

^ To each his own I guess....
Old 03-28-2009, 01:24 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question


ORIGINAL: redfisher1974

^ To each his own I guess....
To be honest, I don't really like Novak, which is why I always recommend sensorless systems to people. Might have been a rare experience, but I have had bad luck with Novak quality and customer service. But at any rate, sensorless is the now and the future of brushless, and so is computer programmability of the ESC's by the user, and Novak seems to be behind the times as far as that goes. I have yet to see Novak have a product besides their Sentry Data Logger that can be programmed on one's computer. And in my opinion, Castle is at the top right now when it comes to brushless systems, especially the fact that you can plug it into your computer and there are so many different tuning options, something that racers can highly benefit from. And no, I am not a Castle rep or anything, I am just speaking from my own experience and from reading and talking to others about their experiences with sensorless-computer programmable-brushless systems. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and personal preference.
Old 03-28-2009, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question

Then why is castle coming out with sensored systems? Not saying I disagree with you...Or agree with you....cheers

Sorry not sure why it triple posted...Mods can clean it up..thanks
Old 03-28-2009, 01:31 PM
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redfisher1974
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Default RE: novak super sport question

Then why is castle coming out with sensored systems? Not saying I disagree with you...Or agree with you....cheers
Old 03-28-2009, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question

Then why is castle coming out with sensored systems? Not saying I disagree with you...Or agree with you....cheers
Old 03-28-2009, 01:47 PM
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NovakTwo
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Default RE: novak super sport question

Novak has not offered the Super Sport controller for years, so its technology has been completely surpassed by our current racing controllers.

Our ESCs are not (yet) computer programmable; however, we do offer the most intuitive, on-board programming available, even in our budget priced, soon-to-be-released Havoc 3s controller:

Nine adjustable parameters:

Minimum Brake (10 settings from 3-50%),
Drag Brake (10 settings from 3-50%),
Dead Band (5 settings from 2-6%),
Minimum Drive (5 settings from 2-12%),
Throttle Curve (Linear, Expo-1 and Expo-2),
Brake Frequency (7 settings from 1-8 kHz),
Reverse,
Motor Rotation
Li-Po Cut-Off
These programming options are generally more than enough for racers and can be pit-adjusted with no need for an external computer hook-up. So, it really is "to each his own".

But, the (ROAR approved) Spec wind, sensored motors designed for racing will always operate more precisely, and smoothly with a sensored controller.
Old 03-28-2009, 01:51 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question

They are coming out with sensored systems most likely so they can comply to ROAR rules and be used in ROAR sanctioned races, which Novak seems to have a choke hold on and the rules always tend to be in Novak's favor.... (As in, only being allowed to run 4S for 1/8 electric buggy/truggy racing, which the Novak systems just so happen to be limited to 4S for their 1/8 systems, and various other little specs like that.)

And of course, Novak will probably deny all of this here on the forums, but anyone who has read up on ROAR rules and been racing long enough and been to both sides of the spectrum with brushless (sensored and sensorless) will be able to realize that Novak is a huge influence on ROAR rules, and ever notice how they had such a big monopoly on the brushless market for the longest time until Castle became a big hit.... Whether you want to believe it or not, and whether Novak denies it or not, they do have a choke hold and HUGE influence of ROAR rules in their favor. But anyway, so this doesn't turn into a brand loyalty flame war, lets get back onto this guy's topic.


EDIT: I also just found out that for 1/8 electric racing, ROAR now allows sensorless systems, so Castle systems are legal, however the ROAR rules still limit you to 4S. Personally I think they should up the specs on the rules to 5S and 6S so Novak will step up their game and produce a system to handle 5S and 6S, because Castle is already way ahead of them in voltage terms (MMM can handle 6S).
Old 03-28-2009, 02:01 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question

I really love the smell of conspiracy theories in the morning......
Old 03-28-2009, 02:06 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question

RE-EDIT: Why do I even bother?
Old 03-28-2009, 02:26 PM
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NovakTwo
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Default RE: novak super sport question

Let us return to the early days of yesteryear.....Here are some comments that I posted last August on another forum:

When Novak spent several years designing, prototyping, testing and investing in the tooling for our first BL motors (4300 and 5800), there was no guarantee that ROAR would ever consider our motors, or any other BL motors, for inclusion in racing. All the R&D and investment was a huge risk for the company.

None of the existing brush companies had shown any interest in developing BL motors, which Novak felt (early in this century) would be an enormous improvement over the existing brush motor designs. I'm still surprised that none of those companies made the investment in BL technology, but they didn't.

It was a huge, expensive risk for Novak-developing and promoting a product line for which we had never been known. We sold the earliest motors for a couple of years before ROAR and the racing community were even willing to consider adopting rules. And there was pressure from the sellers of brush motors who resisted any new rules which would threaten their sales of the existing brush motors.

We offered to OEM our motors to Associated/Reedy Modified, but they worked with LRP to tool up a motor based on Novak's original design. Once the LRP motors were available, ROAR then considered the earliest provisional rules for the new motors. The first rules were shepherded through the ROAR approval process by Mike Reedy(Associated/LRP), who was then President of IFMAR-the international racing sanctioning organization.
I read (or scan) and comment on more R/C forums each day than anyone else posting here and I pay special attention to comments relating to Novak's quality and customer service. Do customers often prefer other companies' products? Yes, they do. But, that has been true for the 30 plus years that Novak has been in business. Our goal is to constantly improve both our products and our CS and TS options. Where we fall short, it is a top priority to improve.
Old 03-28-2009, 02:35 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question


ORIGINAL: Krawlin

RE-EDIT: Why do I even bother?
I value your statments even if i dont agree with them....Keep posting what you think thats not for me to say whats right or wrong,I enjoy evebodys point of veiw and its a great way to learn.
Old 03-28-2009, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question

I read (or scan) and comment on more R/C forums each day than anyone else posting here and I pay special attention to comments relating to Novak's quality and customer service. Do customers often prefer other companies' products? Yes, they do. But, that has been true for the 30 plus years that Novak has been in business. Our goal is to constantly improve both our products and our CS and TS options. Where we fall short, it is a top priority to improve.
Hey i just want to say I love my Havoc 8.5 more everytime i get to run it.....I have never owned a castle system so i cant say alot about them other then I will probaly never own one as long as Novak treats me right...So far so good...cheers
Old 03-28-2009, 02:48 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question


ORIGINAL: redfisher1974

I read (or scan) and comment on more R/C forums each day than anyone else posting here and I pay special attention to comments relating to Novak's quality and customer service. Do customers often prefer other companies' products? Yes, they do. But, that has been true for the 30 plus years that Novak has been in business. Our goal is to constantly improve both our products and our CS and TS options. Where we fall short, it is a top priority to improve.
Hey i just want to say I love my Havoc 8.5 more everytime i get to run it.....I have never owned a castle system so i cant say alot about them other then I will probaly never own one as long as Novak treats me right...So far so good...cheers
Thank you for your inputI appreciate it.
Old 03-28-2009, 02:59 PM
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Krawlin
 
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Default RE: novak super sport question

ORIGINAL: redfisher1974

I value your statments even if i dont agree with them....Keep posting what you think thats not for me to say whats right or wrong,I enjoy evebodys point of veiw and its a great way to learn.

Thank you, glad to know we have someone around here who has some common sense.


And Novak may deny having a choke hold and huge influence on ROAR rules, but just look through some of them sometime. Their rules cater to Novak. It really is very obvious if you know what you are reading and research the stats and limitations of the Novak systems. I am not trying to flame NovakTwo or bash the company here, I am stating a point. Now I don't want to drag the forum into this where most of the members hate Novak (because its a forum dedicated to brushless) and I would hope NovakTwo or another member will not state the name of that forum because I don't think the owner of that forum would appreciate being dragged into this. But anyway, my point is, in a forum with a huge crowd of people dedicated to brushless, it sorts out the good, the bad, and the ugly as far brushless poducts go. And on that forum, Novak is considered the bad and the ugly. And I am not sure if it was this forum (RCU) or the one dedicated to brushless, but there was a large thread about 1/8 scale ROAR sanctioned racing and the rules involved, and when the first set of rules came out, it was totally obvious that ROAR had made the rules based off of the Novak HV system, as in limited to 4S and sensored only. However, as I said above, that has changed to allow sensorless systems to be included, however they are still limited to 4S, the max amount of voltage a Novak HV system can handle. And also, ROAR has specific classes based on Novak sensored systems, because they go by "turns" rather than the sensorless terminology of Kv (which means the amount of RPM per 1 given volt, a 2000Kv brushless motor spins 2000 RPM's for every 1 volt it is given). And I am not big into 1/10 scale, so don't quote me on this, but as far as I know, ROAR does not allow sensorless systems in 1/10 racing, and they do not allow more than 2S LiPo, which is the limit of all or most of the Novak 1/10 systems as far as I know. Now I am not trying to label Novak as a bad company, and while this may be labeling them as a bad company, it's not on purpose. Their motors and ESC's do their job, and while not in the fashion I would like to see them do it, they do their job and people like them. In my experience, and many others I have read about and seen in person, their systems are not up to par to what many people want. And to be honest, I really wish ROAR would not be brand loyal to Novak. And Novak is one of only a few companies who are making sensored only systems, and to be honest, I think ROAR should change the rules to sensorless only allowed in racing so Novak would step up their game and go to sensorless systems like the majority of companies. And since so many people love Novak, they must be somewhat decent at making sensored systems, so why not force them to step up to sensorless and see how well they can do?

I will stick to Castle and other sensorless systems, and continue to highly recommend Castle and other brands of sensorless systems. But when Novak, if ever, goes sensorless, and ROAR stops catering to them, I will give them a try, and who knows, maybe they will outdo everyone else.

Sorry if this doesn't seem very fair, but its only my opinion. NovakTwo, please feel free to deny all accusations of ROAR catering to you, let the people believe what they want.
Old 03-28-2009, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question


ORIGINAL: Krawlin

RE-EDIT: Why do I even bother?
I wonder that too, since there was never a question in this thread about castle or sensored systems until you raised one.

Old 03-28-2009, 03:46 PM
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Krawlin
 
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Default RE: novak super sport question

It's called a recommendation, look it up in the dictionary, you might learn something.
Old 05-04-2009, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question

need some help with this issue; 'm ready to ship my havoc system to novak; reason probably you can help me before i shipped,
system start ok, start hesitating to start running once it runs it runs fine, when you get to a stop don't start running and have to turn
off system in order for it to start functioning, need some help before i shipped. thanks for any help can give
Old 05-04-2009, 10:22 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question

I have to disagree with krawlin that sensorless is as smooth as sensored. I own and run both types and sensored is smoother and with the tekin rx8 combo people at the track are saying it is better than the castle monster mamba. Don't get me wrong I like them both but sensored is smoother.
Old 05-04-2009, 10:55 PM
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Default RE: novak super sport question


ORIGINAL: Krawlin


ORIGINAL: redfisher1974

^ To each his own I guess....
To be honest, I don't really like Novak, which is why I always recommend sensorless systems to people. Might have been a rare experience, but I have had bad luck with Novak quality and customer service. But at any rate, sensorless is the now and the future of brushless, and so is computer programmability of the ESC's by the user, and Novak seems to be behind the times as far as that goes. I have yet to see Novak have a product besides their Sentry Data Logger that can be programmed on one's computer. And in my opinion, Castle is at the top right now when it comes to brushless systems, especially the fact that you can plug it into your computer and there are so many different tuning options, something that racers can highly benefit from. And no, I am not a Castle rep or anything, I am just speaking from my own experience and from reading and talking to others about their experiences with sensorless-computer programmable-brushless systems. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and personal preference.
Im a LRP fan, There systems are sooooo smooth..

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