pirape

Will probably race at my local track

and I want Highspeed for bashing

Druss

What class? I'd suggest the 4600 for 4wd and 5700 for 2wd.

The Tekin is definitely the better system though.

Access

You really have to compare it to the mamba max pro, mamba max is depreciated now (not even on the castle site anymore).
http://www.castlecreations.com/produ...cts_drive.html

You want the sensored setup for racing, it gives you a little more control so you can be assured of a smooth start. Which can be key to getting ahead, especially if your track does stadium starts. Use a mamba max pro and a novak motor, or something similar. A bad start can cost you as much as 30 seconds on that first lap as you have to dodge the mess of traffic that almost inevitably results in many club races.

The mamba max pro ESC has a unique feature that lets you specify the (variable) forward advance within each RPM range. This is huge, the other ESCs if they deal with variable forward advance just have a few different settings to choose from. Increasing levels of forward advance does give you a decent boost to power in a fixed-turn racing class, stock or super stock.

mini-dude

What ESC you choose has NOTHING to do with the topspeed of the vehicle.

Top speed is totally relative to the KV rating, the higher the number the faster the motor but the problem you'll have is if you want it fast (for bashing purposes) you'll find it impractical for use on the race track.

Sensored systems are easier to drive as the throttle response is smoother than a non-sensored system.

Access

Actually for brushless it has a huge difference, since the ESC applies variable forward advance to the motor.

If I am running 0 degrees forward advance vs. 30 degrees forward advance, I'll link to some dyno graphs once I find them. It's a huge difference, just like the brushed motors where you could set your own forward advance.

By applying variable forward advance within the ESC, you get the best of both worlds. At the lower RPMs you'll get no forward advance for maximum torque, at higher RPMs where the RPMs would normally start to max out, the ESC will start to increase forward advance for even more power.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...al-thread.html

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...less-dyno.html
4th graph on the first page here on the above link. The novak 13.5 with 30 degrees (fixed) boost loses a small amount of torque at the lower RPMs, but gains torque at the higher RPMs. If you look at the point where the torque hits 50 N-m's, this is around 19000RPM without the boost and 22500RPM with the boost. Now again with variable boost being set in the ESC, you can get torque and power curves that are the best of both worlds. Either way this gives you a big, big advantage in turn-limited classes stock and super stock.

rebuilder

Werent you trying to get opinions between motors? If so id go with the Castle 4600.................run it on 3s, and gear it the way you like for a given situation. It has PLENTY of power for bashing and racing.

Chris_RC

You cant run the Castle 4600 or 3s for racing, plus it would bald tires like no tomorrow.

rebuilder

I thought he was asking about running either a Tekin Rs or a castle........wasnt he? Its up to him how, where or if he can race it. Cant he race it in the open "non-box stock" class? If so i dont believe there are any limitations on what motor or battery he uses.

Traxxas Slash
OPEN Class

This class is OPEN; It has minor limitation for the racer who just can’t
Leave it alone
“Fender rubbing� contact between trucks should be expected and tolerated.
However, ramming or intentionally forcing other drivers off the track is not
allowed and will result in lap penalties or disqualification at the discretion of the
race director.
Body: All trucks must use the factory Traxxas or Pro-line Slash Style body. Race Number must be
displayed on Right and Left Side of Truck Body. Traxxas stickers must be used also.
Chassis: Any modifications may be made to the chassis system. Vehicle chassis must be raced in its
original Length.
Suspension: Both the front & the rear suspension systems must remain in stock form. Any Shock
and Shock Springs may be used.
Steering: No modifications may be made to the steering system. Original Traxxas Alum Castor
Blocks (3632X or 3632A), Alum Steering Blocks (3636X or 3636A) , Alum Steering Bell crank
(3743X or 3743A) parts may be used. You may install any servo saver or servo drive-horn that
you so choose.
Electronics: You may install any Servo, Speed Control, or Receiver you so choose. Electronic
Drift Box or Gyro’s are permitted.
Motor: This class is open to Brushed and Brushless motors.
Battery: This class is limited to any NiCad, NiMh, or Lipo battery.
Wheels: Any wheel may be used providing that it is no wider than 1.76� and width of the
Truck stays the same.
Tires: Any Tire may be used providing that its width of the truck stays no more then 11 1\2 in.

Access

Chris was citing the ROAR rules (ROAR approved motors and approved hardcase 2s LiPos only). But b'cos of ROAR's restrictions and conduct in the past several years, many club tracks have gone their own way rather than pay any attention to ROAR anymore.

Chris_RC

I do agree ROAR is a mess and with all my might try to not buy ROAR memberships because of ROAR, but in general you cant run a 3S lipo in stock, super stock, or even modified classes for 2wd truck as he is getting a Kyosho RT5. The 3S would be a huge advantage in performance when it is a fixed motor, even when it is in mod class.

burnineyes

Either system would be fine for racing, but the Tekin costs alot more. Dont worry about sensored or sensorless. With the newer updates to the sensorless ESCs are VERY smooth and have no startup issues. Most people who say sensored is so much better think I have one when they drive my truck, but I have a sensorless motor. You should worry more about what the rules at your local track are, not what people online tell you. Most rules require a motor that falls under the sensored category. In this case you might as well use them if you got them. Tekin RS or Mamba Max Pro both work great. I have both and the Mamba Max Pro gives a slight advantage in top speed with CHEAT mode, over Tekins TURBO, but its not enough for most people to notice.

Now for the high speed part.
Most tracks WILL have a limit to 2s lipo for any class, so that is what you should run. If you want high speed you can buy a 3s and BAM, you got high speed for bashing. It would be as simple as a battery change. Just keep an eye on temperature!

ElectricGuy007

The Tekin RS motor will be better than the mamba, but the catch is, it costs more.
Depends what the motor is gonna go in.

BuzzBomber

My Feedback: (4)

FWIW, I run a Sidewinder(yes, the MM's "budget" brother) and a 4600kv CMS motor on Promatch 2S packs in my DB01 4wd buggy. We generally follow ROAR rules at our club with some exceptions, and I thought the newest set allowed the Castle motors? Anyway, with some tweaking via the Castle Link, I have absolutely no issues with startup or smoothness of throttle response anywhere in the range. I have let a couple others who run either Novak and Tekin systems drive the car, and none could find anything to complain about in my power system after trying it. Granted, the Havoc Pro/17.5 combo in my pan car has a smoother bottom end, but that's really apples to oranges. The Tekin will offer more features if you're willing to spend the coin, but you won't be disappointed in the Castle setup if you use good batteries, make sure you have the latest firmware, and spend a little time tuning it in. I'm also certain that the sensored option on the new MM Pro will eliminate any lingering concerns about startup.

elpurete

I have another post ([link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9220695/anchors_9226168/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9226168]here[/link]) where nobody answers this same thing... so i'll ask here ...
What do you think about getting a Mamba Max Pro ESC and a Tekin motor... (sensored one), using the CHEAT mode will be great and is not that much of diference in $$$ to get the MMPro ESC with a Tekin motor against the Mamba Max Pro combo with a Castle 4600KV motor... but is in this place that i'm lost... On the TEAMTEKIN site they only show KV for sensorless motors but on the sensored part of the page it shows just the Turns, but i need to know is how many turns do i need to get almost the same kv as my old velineon motor this one is a 3500KV so in tekin on the sensored part what motor should a pick... or even something about 4000KV would be fine... i have found something on the net that gave me an idea... on the novak site... something like 10.5T equals to 4200KV and 13.5T equals 3300KV... would this chart reflects every brusless motor? i mean any brand?

Access

Elpurete - I would say why the tekin motor? Why not Novak's new ballistic motor which you can mod to the moon? You can swap out the coils, rotor, and everything; price is probably about the same (it seems like any sensored brushless motor is $80 list these days).

One thing to consider is the size or 'fatness' of the rotor, Novak's 13.5, 17.5 motors have fat rotors I think so you shouldn't go too far above 50,000rpm. I think the 8.5 has a thinner rotor which can safely spin up to 65,000rpm, not sure though...

I am ultimately going to do the 6s thing with the mamba max pro and a novak motor, so I chose the 17.5 one (~2200KV) for this reason. The 13.5 (3200KV) would be going much to fast with 6s.

elpurete

Hi ACCESS...
Ok i have drived a novak system... and like it a lot... but there are 2 novak systems already at my local track... and want to try a new system... those KV's 17.5 (~2200) and 13.5(~3200) are only for novak... and i needed to know if someone knows about the Tekin ones....

Access

They'll be in the same ballpark. No two motors are exactly alike and things like rotor size or the forward advance setting in the ESC can affect the rpms to some degree.

mini-dude

BUT since most brushless ESCs now allow for "advanced programming options" all of that hoo-lah you posted doesn't amount to a hill of beans, especially to the average user/basher.
A motor still has its limits, predesigned into it by the manufacturer (i.e KV ratings). In the future please limit responses to less techno-babble, and more common sense/average person responses. If somebody wants to know about changing the boost, or curve profile, then you can chime in.

rebuilder

You must be a new moderator......................giving people your blessing to "chime in" when you allow it, how kind of you..................

Access

1) KV ratings are estimates, specifications provided by the manufacturer. The only thing concrete for a motor is the number of turns. As for forward advance, 10-20% more RPM, torque, and power is nothing to scoff at, if you are racing in a stock class (and the OP said he does plan on racing).

2) Science is the literacy of the 21st century. People on these boards generally don't have a problem with science, provided it's backed up by experience.

elpurete

Well moding them... is doable on the Tekin ones too... you can change the rotor... they have several of them to get more or less torque... fat and thin shaft rotors... so it can be done to the tekins too...
But my question is still floating... is there anyone that knows what KV's are these Tekin motors? like the 10.5 or 9.5?

Access

Look at this chart right here.
http://www.teamnovak.com/products/br...tic/index.html
They'll be in the same general ballpark, if Tekin doesn't put out actual numbers, comparing them to other motors with the same number of turns is the best you can do.

http://www.shopatron.com/products/pr...6.56692.0.0.0?
Look at this link... can you swap out these with the Tekins? It's $32. list, probably cheaper on tower... if you are unhappy with the turns just buy a different set of coils rather than having to replace the whole motor for $80.

mini-dude

1) Last I checked "plans" and "actually doing" are two entirely different concepts.

2) Most of these KIDS on this forum can't tie their shoes right or have their pants hanging off their butts, so I think it fair to say "advanced science" is still a bit beyond them or any of the other hobbist-bashers here.