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ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

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Old 11-18-2009, 10:27 AM
  #1
Rhizzlebop
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Default ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

I am about to place an order for the flux. I've read articles on the truck that contradict. One says it is rated for 2S cells and has a 5700 motor. Another article I read said it could handle 3S if you change toa smaller Spur and larger pinion.

One posted kindly told me he was running 3S in his and if the motor burned up he'd just replace it with a 4600.

Other posters have told me that it wont take it at all.

I'm not sure what to do. I have 2 8000mah 3S packs and I do not want to buy any other packs. Those cost me plenty.

I am about to order the flux as it appears to be overall better than the rustler ( and I'm sick of the problems with the Speed T) but I need to know if I need to order a different spur or pinion and if i need any grease for the diff?

The best price I've found is around 275 for the Flux at RCBoca. (Hope I'm allowed to say that here).
I looked around a couple sites and don't actually see any alternate gears for the flux, but maybe they fit from another vehicle.

Much thanks for the guidance.....
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:48 AM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

It's my understanding that the Flux system is simply the sidewinder 5700 from CC. From talking to CC in the past the Sidewinder ESC is only rated for 2S. The 5700 motors are the same ones that come with the MM5700 systems and will handle 3S without a problem.

If something fails it's most likely going to be the ESC and not the motor.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:35 AM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

The esc is rated for 3s it's the 5700kv cc motor that is not rated for the rpm's produced by the 3s battery,This has been known for a long time,You can run it but you are taking a chance of the bearings or the magnets flying apart.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:36 AM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

I just talked to the guy at Boca, and he kind of shyed me away from the Firestorm. He said they sell probably 4:1 Rustler VXLs, and said they have zero trouble out of them and he was touting the Traxxes customer service.

Dang it, LOL Why is something so simple so difficult.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:58 AM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

No doubt the traxxas is more popular,but any firestorm owner will tell you that the firestorm is a good rc aswell.(your better off listening to the guys on this forum then a salesman at a hobby shop.)
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:13 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Here we go again. lol

E-Firestorm is very good, I have one. If you could mix the toughness of the Rustler with the handling of an Associated, the E-Firestorm is about as close as you'd get.

There's so much confusion with the Sidewinder ESC and Castle motors and what voltage they can handle.

Castle 4600kv motor - old rating up to 3s, new rating up to 4s
Castle 5700kv motor - up to 3s, at least that's what the sticker on mine says...

Sidewinder + 4600 = 3s.
Sidewinder + 5700 = 2s.


I'm not going to tell you to do it, but I've run my E-Firestorm with Sidewinder and 5700kv on 3s without issues. This was on concrete/dirt though, try it on grass and the esc might go poof.

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Old 11-18-2009, 12:14 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Thanks. He sells both in fact, but just said he sold a lot more VXLs than the flux.

I must express, that I AM ONLY going to run 3S Lipos in whatever I get. I've seen a few people say they run 3S in the Flux and had no issues with it. Some say it CAN burn the ESC, some say the ESC is fine, but its the motor turns (5700) that will kill the motor with that much power.

I havn't seen anyone actually say they DID destroy a motor OR ESC by running 3S. I already have 2 8000mah 3S packs and I'm not buying anymore. LOL

So, not sure if I should get the Flux, or maybe save and get the regular Firestorm and go ahead and buy a better motor and ESC.

Dang it. I need to decide cause I wanna get the order in today.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Any idea what kind of speed I will get with the flux on 3S? I read somewhere that I needed to change the spur and pinion to run a 3S in it, but not even sure what gears to get. I don't see any replacement gears for the Flux, but maybe they fit from another vehicle.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Probably a good idea to drop a few teeth on the pinion. The best thing to do is get a temp gun and watch those temps and gear accordingly. If i were you I'd think about picking up another motor just to play it safe. I hurt my 5700kv (mechanical damage from a jump) so for the moment I have a Velineon motor in it. Should run as fast as a Rusty VXL with it. The 5700kv on 3s should be a tad faster...
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ScottStaypuff

Here we go again. lol

E-Firestorm is very good, I have one. If you could mix the toughness of the Rustler with the handling of an Associated, the E-Firestorm is about as close as you'd get.

There's so much confusion with the Sidewinder ESC and Castle motors and what voltage they can handle.

Castle 4600kv motor - old rating up to 3s, new rating up to 4s
Castle 5700kv motor - up to 3s, at least that's what the sticker on mine says...

Sidewinder + 4600 = 3s.
Sidewinder + 5700 = 2s.


I'm not going to tell you to do it, but I've run my E-Firestorm with Sidewinder and 5700kv on 3s without issues. This was on concrete/dirt though, try it on grass and the esc might go poof.

When did they up the ratings on the cc motors? I wonder if they changed the internals of the motors to handle the 60,000 plus rpms on 4s.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....


Quote:
ORIGINAL: redfisher1974


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ScottStaypuff

Here we go again. lol

E-Firestorm is very good, I have one. If you could mix the toughness of the Rustler with the handling of an Associated, the E-Firestorm is about as close as you'd get.

There's so much confusion with the Sidewinder ESC and Castle motors and what voltage they can handle.

Castle 4600kv motor - old rating up to 3s, new rating up to 4s
Castle 5700kv motor - up to 3s, at least that's what the sticker on mine says...

Sidewinder + 4600 = 3s.
Sidewinder + 5700 = 2s.


I'm not going to tell you to do it, but I've run my E-Firestorm with Sidewinder and 5700kv on 3s without issues. This was on concrete/dirt though, try it on grass and the esc might go poof.

When did they up the ratings on the cc motors? I wonder if they changed the internals of the motors to handle the 60,000 plus rpms on 4s.

Here you go, the new motors look real nice:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9228456/tm.htm
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

I think what I remember hearing the problem with sidewinder 5700 on 3S is that the 5700 motor will draw more current through the ESC than the ESC can handle, thus frying it. If you really want to use 3S on it, buy a Mamba Max Pro ESC and stick it in there, and take out the sidewinder (or whatever hpi calls the version with the different sticker) right away, before you run it, so you can sell it on ebay / at the track as a new ESC, they are in pretty high demand.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Quote:
1. When fitted with the Flux Warp 5700 motor or other motors with 5700kV of power, you can use up to 8 normal NiMH cells or a 2S LiPo battery.
2. When fitted with a motor with 4600kV of power, you can use up to 12 NiMH cells or a 3S LiPo battery
This is what my friend was told when he orders his ^ the mms has alot more tunability than the vxls but the vxls are a breeze to use and run 3s from start.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Not sure what the sidewinder or castle creation motor/ESC's can handle, but the vxl velineon CAN run on 3swith the3500kv motor (or any motor as they advertise "no motor limit"). Since you are not buying anymore packs, until you know for sure what the sidewinder/castle creationscan do, id lean towards the vxl.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:52 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Someone suggested I get a Mamba Max pro ESC and switch it out before I run it so I can sell it as new.

I did a quick search and Horizon has the Mamba Max Pro and the 4600 motor are 195 but don't see the ESC by itself. Maybe I should get both and switch em out and be done with it and sell the ESC AND motor on ebay?

Anyone know of a good deal on either/both of those?
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Old 11-18-2009, 02:17 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

I need to cal CC on an unrelated problem. While I'm on the phone i'll ask them why the Sidewinder with the 5700 is only rated for 2S while the same motor with the Mamba ESC is rated at 3S. I'll let you know what I find out.
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Old 11-18-2009, 02:42 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Why not just buy the Firestorm (not the Flux) and a MMP/motor combo then? They are almost identical in terms of parts; you'd need to verify that with the pdfs from HPI site.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rhizzlebop

Someone suggested I get a Mamba Max pro ESC and switch it out before I run it so I can sell it as new.

I did a quick search and Horizon has the Mamba Max Pro and the 4600 motor are 195 but don't see the ESC by itself. Maybe I should get both and switch em out and be done with it and sell the ESC AND motor on ebay?

Anyone know of a good deal on either/both of those?
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:00 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Thanks John, I'd appreciate it and I'll look for your reply later.

Zero, I am actually leaning towards that. Mainly, I didn't wanna spend another 200 bucks. However, if I go ahead and make that move up front, then I don't risk toasting a perfectly good motor and esc, and can just switch em to start with, sell the others, and Ithink I can come out net about 70 bucks more.

That is unless John shares something that says I have nothing to worry about.

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Old 11-18-2009, 04:17 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

I talked to CC tech support for an unrelated item and asked about the Sidewinder 5700. The reason the 5700 is not rated for 3S is due to the amp draw. Basically they said the 5700 wants to pull more amps than the Sidewinder ESC can handle. The Sidewinder 4600 pulls a lot less current than the 5700 so it's no where near as hard on the ESC. The 5700 motor itself is rated for 3S use. Therotical max RPM would be 71820 but in real world applications the motor will not see anywhere near this RPM due to load.

So the ESC will run 3S and the motor will be fine on 3S but.... If you really load the motor you run the chance of frying the ESC. Funny. I feel like I said that once before
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:25 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Thanks John!!!! Sorry, I'm kind of a newb here.

I saw also where someone suggested dropping the Spur gear size and increasing the pinion but I havn't been able to find any alternate gears to even get. I figured the 4600 might slow it down a bit so I'd get something to speed it back up, OR get something to slow it down a bit with the 5700. Their must be interchangable gears from another HPI product I'm just not familiar with it.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:33 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

To lower the gear ratio you need to do the oppisite of what you described. You need to make the spur gear larger and the pinion gear smaller. The Firestorm is a pretty light truck and gearing it down with a smaller pinion should keep you from hurting the ESC. If it where me I'd buy the 4600 motor and sell the 5700 on Ebay BEFORE you use it.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:45 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

John, I just found on HPIracing.com they have all the Spurs and pinions for HPI vehicles. Looks like any of their 48 pitch ones will work for the flux.

So, you suggest going ahead and swapping the ESC and motor. (might as well do both of I'm gonna do it). and selling the unused ones on ebay.

Ok, with that said, by going to the 4600, I understand that basically would slow down top speed right? cause if its gonna turn 4600 times per volt, rather than 5700 times, assuming the same equal gearing, it would top out slower right?

So, should I go ahead and order a couple different gears to get the speed back up?

Its mainly for bashing around, but I'd like it to be capable of better than 50 mph if possible.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:59 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

As a matter of fact, I don't even know what the tooth count on the ones that come stock are....for the spur or pinion.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:01 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Quote:
ORIGINAL: redfisher1974

The esc is rated for 3s it's the 5700kv cc motor that is not rated for the rpm's produced by the 3s battery,This has been known for a long time,You can run it but you are taking a chance of the bearings or the magnets flying apart.
That is not true. People used to run the 5700 with the mamba max quite a bit. From my understandiing, it is the combination of the Sidewinder with the 5700 and 3s that the esc cannot handle.

Look at these links and you will see where I am coming from. Look at the specs on the motor.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXUTA5&P=ML
http://www.castlecreations.com/products/cms36-5700.html
http://www.castlecreations.com/products/sidewinder.html
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXXWH7&P=ML
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: ready to order E Firestore Flux.....using 3S Lipo however....

Yes the truck will be slower running the 4600 than it would running the 5700 on 3S with the same gearing but it won't be that drastic a change.

Keep in mind that the Flux is geared for a 5700 on 2S. Generally when you go up to 3S you gear a motor down a little. In this case you're going down in motor KV. I'd recommend you start with a the stock pinion that comes with the truck and use that on the 4600 and monitor motor temps. Having run the 4600, 5700 and 7700 on different cars and trucks I can tell you that you will be very happy with the 4600 on 3S even with stock gearing. I'm not sure you will hit 50 mph but you should be in the mid 40's. I know that may not be the magic 50 mph but if you have never driven an RC that fast it can and be a real handful and bashing at 50 mph is really hard on parts.

The only time I can use a 3S in my bandit or rusty is when i'm doing speed runs or in a really open space. For instance... 3S in a rusty on a track is just too much.
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