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Savage .21 to flux conversion

Old 04-20-2010, 01:13 PM
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Default Savage .21 to flux conversion

Ok this is a project I just finished. I have a post on the savage forums but its not really a build thread or anything. More like will it work type stuff.

So heres the condensed version

I decided I missed my savage X too much in winter and wanted an electric one. The flux IMO is WAY too expensive so I decided to go the cheaper way, and get a used Savage. I paid $150 for it shipped with 2 bodies, a JR high torque metal geared steering servo(was main selling point), and a nitro engine in decent shape (its going to be sold off eventually I don't need another nitro big block laying around)

1st pic is of the Savage .21 I won on ebay. It looked like it was in semi-decent shape(or so I thought more on that later)

Once I got it I stripped it down completely to clean it up. While doing that I found out it was missing roughly 60% of its screws, and half the screws it did have had stripped heads or was some random screw the guy forced in. Had to order a complete screw set for it. I also hated the old school radio tray so I ordered a Savage Flux's box (total was $10 for both shipped ). I decided to use a Mamba Monster 2200Kv 1/8th esc/motor combo that I picked up for $250 (wish I went with the HW 1/8th due to issues later)

For the transmission I just popped in the Flux's idler gear($8 shipped) seeing one of the guys in my original thread said that was the only difference. Glad he told me that saved me $50 I was going to blow on a flux tranny. I also had a savage X rollbar laying around so I slapped that on seeing the aluminum one was bent out of shape.

2nd pic is of it after I mounted the motor and ESC with the plates I made out of a sheet of aluminum I had from another project. I decided to mount it in a similar position as to the flux. along with the ESC. The ESC mount plate is probably the easiest thing I've made for a RC yet

3rd and 4th pic are just side shots after the esc and motor were mounted to show it better. I hated the springs neon green look so I ordered a set of black savage X springs for $7.


For the battery box's I used 2 stampede chassis's(GOD I LOVE THEM, they make great battery holders )
Deciding how to mount the pede chassis's probably was the hardest part of the whole conversion, and most time consuming. To this point I spent probably 2-4 hours on actual labor making parts. I spent 2-3 days just looking at it trying to visualize how I could mount them. I finally throught about some delrin rods I bought last year and than was looking at how I could put them on, and came up with a simple solution to the issue. Pic 5 shows the delrin rod and the 2 places I screwed them on. Luckily the .21 chassis had some extra un-used screw holes.
Pic 6 is of the one box mounted. fot a batery cover I used a 1/8th inch clear piece of lexan I had laying around from past projects I worked on.

After I figured that out I decided the box's looked tacky in grey and decided to dye them black with RIT dye. I actually bought the dye a few weeks back to do some rims for my one ST and figured might as well fling the chassis's in with it. I also had to order 4 new axles seeing the last owner had 3 reverse threaded axles on it, and my savage X tires and rims wouldn't work with the nuts that came on the axles.

Pic 7 was taken today before testing today showing the now black chassis's screwed to the side, and the whole thing finished.

Then there is the video I uploaded to youtube. that I took with the same camera that I used for the pics



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfQ_u3zJFcM[/youtube]

This is a tad slower than my savage X 4.6.
I actually ran it for around 10 more minutes after the video ends (I found it too big of a pain in the ass to hold a camera while trying to drive). I only ended my run because the pinion gear came loose (I had loctite on it too)

It is running on a 14tpinion/52tspur
In total I spent around $200(including shipping) on the savage to make it able to accept BL (still have the engine to sell which I expect around $70-90 for), and $260 on a mamba monster system. So far I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.
Honestly only thing I'm not too happy with is the mamba system itself. I wish I saved some cash and would have bought the HW BL 1/8th system. For some reason the mamba hates my radio(Eurgle 3chan 2.4) and will not let me calibrate it properly. I only lucked out because my controller so far matched up with the neutral point on the ESC.

The above video was ran on 2 2S 5200mah 30C Turnigy hard case lipos, I feel they put out way more power than it needs
thing wheelies EASILY and will roll over if I slam on the brakes.

So tell me whatcha think
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:59 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

Pretty nice conversion man[8D]

I got my 150a hobbyking ESC today and I really cant wait to get everything into my MGT so it can be brushless I have a feeling im not going to want to quit driving it. lol

Definately looks like yours works well though. Looks like you could maybe gear up, but since you didnt show a speed run in the video its hard to say. What would you guess as far as top speed goes? What about run time?

Gotta love them old savages. They are just fun to drive and tough. Go get us a good bashing video now

Eric
Old 04-21-2010, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

LOL a bashing video will have to wait

Got a wheelie bar today slapped it on than took it out today to show my nephew, after 10 minutes I snapped a rear dogbone in clean in half. Gotta get the heavy duty ones. I figured the .21 dogbones wouldn't last that long with the power the engine was putting out.

Sucker was easily pulling wheelies down the whole block.

Sad thing is the wheelie bar isn't helping with it flipping from a stand still. I have to use finesse when accelerating now. Something I never thought I'd have to think about with a savage .

I also pretty much did in a brand new body that came with it Didn't like the body anyways, the last owners paint job SUCKED, and a good chunk fell off

I'm actually tempted to get XL TVP's once I get some cash on the side and extend it to try and curb the flipping.

BTW I drove it for around 20 mins total almost all at full throttle without recharging the batteries and they only dropped to around 3.9V per cell from 4.2V per cell, I probably still have 20-30 mins of runtime left
Old 04-21-2010, 06:27 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

Nice conversion man , i just picked up a flux myself afetr owning many electric onroad/offroad buggies and truggys even had a stampede at one point and hands down this vehicle is the most fun out of them all. I just picked up the high speed idler made by hpi , you may want to look into to gain some more top speed. I also bought the 5mm thick tvps , same size as stock bc i dont want to extend it just yet but they are great and only $20 new , you may wanna check out this website tcscrawlers.com for some amazing tvps at great prices. Anyway your build came out really nice and i like the idea for the battery trays by using the pede chassis. Right now i am trying to decide if i want to get some lower shock towers and truggy shocks and convert this beast into a truggy...
Old 04-21-2010, 06:45 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

thx for the site

I love abusing pede chassis's like that
most my conversions end up with a pedes chassis on it to hold batteries seeing other ways cost more and don't offer the protection. I also know my batteries fit perfectly in them

I'm gonna have to keep a eye open for BP diffs also

I seen a savage on the savage forums converted into a truggy thing was able to hang with the real truggies and handled pretty damn nice also
Old 04-21-2010, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

looks good 14/52 sounds REALLY low for gearing which explains your loosing some top end the flux is 20/44 so you probally ahve a little wiggle room for gearing

th elug
Old 04-21-2010, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

Surprisingly enough I sheared a CVD pin in the right rear axle of my Monster GT with the brushed motors. I dont know if it was about to go already or not. I was trying to climb a hill that was loose dirt, and I had just started trying to climb it when the rear wheels quit pulling. We had only been running about 2 minutes. Anyways, it surprised me.

Eric
Old 04-21-2010, 08:55 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion


ORIGINAL: rclugnut10

looks good 14/52 sounds REALLY low for gearing which explains your loosing some top end the flux is 20/44 so you probally ahve a little wiggle room for gearing

th elug
good to know
I was planning on getting a 47t spur and upping the pinion to 18t. But think I'll see about the 44t spur and either using my 18t or getting the 20t pinion
that might also tame the insane backflips down seeing it should drop the torque some.
Old 04-22-2010, 12:05 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

just ordered a 43t flux spur and 4 HD dogbones

gonna run a 18t pinion(seeing I have one laying around) for now to see how it behaves
Old 04-29-2010, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

WELL update FINALLY got the dogbones and the 43tooth spur gear in, and installed them, also put in my 18tooth pinion tried it out.
Old dogbones were twisted almost 45 degrees from center. So it got 4 nice and shiny HD dogbones while I was at it.

Ran great for 15 seconds than the pinion lost all its teeth... The weird thing is the spur has no scratches on it at all.

Wonder why Castle included a pinion with the setup that obviously can't take the force of the motor. The meshing was perfect. Well this will have to wait till I get to my LHS maybe next week (or I order a pinion) and get a HD pinion to go with my setup.

Also I painted the body I'll post a pic when I got time
Old 05-12-2010, 06:10 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

Got a novak 15T hardened steel pinion slapped it in and took it out for a test run. Sucker still flips if throttles hit hard(not as bad as before) at the start but now I got a more unique problem. Once it gets to full speed I can't hit the brakes cause the savage actually catapults itself into the air about a foot or 2, than goes barrel rolling and flipping for about 10feet, from taping the brakes.

Ran it for 6 mins today out front and the motor batteries and ESC didn't even get over the temps outside according to my thermometer.

Think I might go pick up a 18 tooth or 20 tooth pinion soon to try it

Also going to have to download the castle link software soon so I can adjust its acceleration, and brake settings which I'm hoping will fix the issues.
Old 11-17-2010, 01:58 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

Been almost a full 7 months since I started this project. So decided its time to update


Last Monday I pretty much overhauled the setup.
I upgraded it to TCScrawler's Flux TVP's, Flux battery compartments, flux motor mount, and Integy HD rear hubs(I found them for $2 more than the standards shipped). I still use my ESC mount plate I made though seeing the holes I had drilled lined up perfectly to the holes where the HPI plate mounts
I still need flux Diff's, tranny outdrives, and driveshafts seeing the .21 driveshafts are kinda twisted, and will probably break pretty soon. The drive cups also are getting worn down.

I slapped HB UFO rims on it from the HB garage sale awhile back that I got for $5 a set

Swapping to the new parts affected the handling of it more drastically than I expected in all truth. Seems the batteries are pushed a little farther to the back than my old setup, which causes it to backflip ALOT easier than it was. But now on stopping its not flipping forward as easily though. The integy HD rear hubs I'm so far happy with, seeing I don't have the tierod popping out anymore in the rear(which it di at least 5 times a run).

1st 3 pics are from before the test run out in front.
1st flip took out my rear body clips, and completely ground down the body posts so its flush to the body [:@]
I will never recommend this body if you plan on running it. Now if you want a body for display wheile its on a shelf it looks stellar, but as a running bdy I cannot recommend it.
Next time I goto my LHS I'm picking it up a standard truck body that will keep the body clips, and posts away from danger when it flips


I am also contemplating removing the wheelie bar seeing it doesn't work that good from my runs. IMO it needs to stick farther out in back to actually catch the truck before it has the inertia, and ends up on its lid.


Electronics were changed a few months back I dumped the CC MM ESC , and 2200kv motor(slapped em in a Jamin X1 CRT) for a HW 150A esc, and 2000kv motor. Also have a 18t pinion in it. According to my temp gauge the motor runs at its hottest 110 degrees (when it was 95 out) Today it was cool to the touch. The mamba was hitting 140 degrees, and the ESC was very warm too when it was in it after 10 mins.
Old 11-17-2010, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

Looks good. Im kinda redoing a few things on my MGT too to help with the looks and help with some other things. Have you been running this much?
Old 11-17-2010, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

What radio are you using with the thing?

I have a Futaba 3PKS and it is able to set the trottle curve and ABS so I don't have to worry about sudden stops that launches it into a kid's head.
Old 11-17-2010, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

ORIGINAL: Chuck Finley

What radio are you using with the thing?

I have a Futaba 3PKS and it is able to set the trottle curve and ABS so I don't have to worry about sudden stops that launches it into a kid's head.
Eurgle 2.4ghz 3 channel
It has ABS, and stuff I tried it with the ABS it did stop it better but was giving issues with reverse on my ESC. I tried throttle curve but honestly it only took me a few minutes to get used to its throttle input so no need for that


And cummins not so much summer was unbearably hot & humid and none of my RC's saw any real action(my nitros I didn't even get through a 1/4 of a gallon).

Then it went back into rain on days I had open to run. I've also been looking for a nice place to bash. Where I live were good for very flat areas... which are not a hell of alot of fun for a monster truck. The one park near me the only real hill I could launch it off of unfortunately has a playground RIGHT next to it (in the direction the truck would fly), that always has little kids there.


BTW heres a pic of one of my winter drivers this year
1/16th scale Tiger I that shoots BB's, none of that little girly IR stuff
Believe it or not that is about the same length as a 1/10th scale ST
Old 11-17-2010, 03:04 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

Thanks for posting the update.


I have a Savage 21 with some minor hop ups that I eventually went to a.25 with when those came out. It's been in the garage for years, and I am ready to get back into it. I don't want to mess with the Nitro gear as much, and have been considering picking up the HPI Flux Conversion kit plus one of their ESC/Motor combos.

What kind of runtimes do you see with your setup?
Old 11-17-2010, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

honestly its awhile
I was out around 20 minutes today and my batteries never hit the LVC. I have my LVC set for 3.4V a cell. Just measured em and there at 3.86V's now, fully charged they are 4.2V's a cell
Alot of the run was 70%-100% throttle too which is quite long IMO for 4S.

So in all truth 1 charge is about 2 tanks of nitro in my savage X.



Wonder if they make a different wheelie bar seeing with the HPI I just looked my trucks at an almost 85 angle by the time it catches.
Old 11-17-2010, 05:17 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

Is 3.0v per cell too low on the cutoff? My ESC is set for that default and Im ordering the card this week, but will it be fine as long as i charge the batteries back up right away, or should I keep an eye on the voltage and pull them out around 3.4v per cell?

Eric
Old 11-17-2010, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion


ORIGINAL: cummins driver

Is 3.0v per cell too low on the cutoff? My ESC is set for that default and Im ordering the card this week, but will it be fine as long as i charge the batteries back up right away, or should I keep an eye on the voltage and pull them out around 3.4v per cell?

Eric
3.0 IMO is too low, its too close to dipping below 3V which alot of chargers will not charge, from what I hear.
3.2V is recommended I just do 3.4 as a safety barrier. Its also around that time performance starts to degrade anyways.
Think I have my MM set for 3.6V
Old 11-18-2010, 06:46 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion


ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM
I am also contemplating removing the wheelie bar seeing it doesn't work that good from my runs. IMO it needs to stick farther out in back to actually catch the truck before it has the inertia, and ends up on its lid.
Yep, you need something similar to this.



Full throttle takeoffs.....works awesome.

Old 11-18-2010, 07:04 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

what bar is that?
and yes exactly what I had in mind that is needed size wise
Old 11-18-2010, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

The only thing I wouldnt like about that wheelie bar is that off road it wouldnt be much good unless its adjustable? Climbing hills would be hard to do, especially if you were backing down them.

Eric
Old 11-18-2010, 09:44 PM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion


ORIGINAL: cummins driver

The only thing I wouldnt like about that wheelie bar is that off road it wouldnt be much good unless its adjustable? Climbing hills would be hard to do, especially if you were backing down them.

Eric
well totally destroying a $30 body, and body posts after 5 mins is a bigger pain currently
I can worry about hills when I find some near me seeing it is VERY flat where I live
Only thing I can think of somewhat of a pain is jumping but honestly if I was gonna land like that I'd be in a bit of a problem anyways
Old 11-19-2010, 12:44 AM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

It was a custom made one from a friend with a CNC machine.....full bearings, airplane landing wheels . No its not adjustable, it just bolts onto the back with a supplied plate. Very sturdy and obviously gets removed when we hit the dirt.

All together, it was around $75. Not cheap but then again, this hobby aint cheap.
Old 11-19-2010, 10:24 AM
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Default RE: Savage .21 to flux conversion

ORIGINAL: Yosh70

It was a custom made one from a friend with a CNC machine.....full bearings, airplane landing wheels . No its not adjustable, it just bolts onto the back with a supplied plate. Very sturdy and obviously gets removed when we hit the dirt.

All together, it was around $75. Not cheap but then again, this hobby aint cheap.
ahhh
hmm maybe I should try and make something out of delrin rods I have laying around, and the current wheelie bar I have from HPI.

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