Southern Cross

I made the decision to make the jump to on-road RC action. After fighting my way through figuring out the ins and outs of off-road RC I find myself in the unknown again trying to figure out which 1/10 scale touring car to buy. My usual forum just went down in flames so I figured I would jump on to the biggest one I could find! When I buy I like to buy top of the line or as close to it as possible. I want the opinions of you...the experts...as to which 1/10 scale electric touring cars are the top contenders in the category. I'm having a helluva time finding out.

The things that are important to me...

- speed...50MPH minimum
- looks...must be able to sport a realistic body
- hop ups...I love anodized aluminum and carbon!
- reliability

I guess I'm looking for the best possible chassis. I'm guessing touring cars are similar to their off-raod brethren in that I can make them fast with a nice ESC/brushless combo. I definitely can't have nitro because of the noise and desire to race indoors. I love Losi products but I don't see many bodies I can slap on them. HPI has the bodies but not the performance in their Sport line. From what I can tell Tamiya seems to be the one for me but I'm just not sure. I don't know much about Xray but they seem to be a winner. Buyers guides haven't given me anything but the company line. You guys would really be helping me out if you could tell me what the best tourings cars are int he 1/10 scale electric realm.

Thanks for your help.

Yaksaddle

Hmmm, I would say you wouldnt go wrong with a TC3/4/5, or a tamiya -

I have a TT-01 w/ carbon fibre chassis and I have a TC3 with a HCR chassis and set up, I have a stock TT-01, and 2 stock TC3's...

If you are looking to raise up the ranks of your LHS, see what everyone else races, obviously if its winning them races it must work, look and see what your hobby shop stocks, dont be retarded like me and buy a TT-01 to find out your lhs doesnt stock anything so you spend your free time google/ebay -ing for upgrades...

If you are going to be racing LHS races you wont be hitting 50 scale mph for long periods of time probably, so speed should be secondary to you getting to know your car on the track, the fastest car doesnt win all the races, it just crashes harder.

Practice, practice, tweak your car, practice, rebuild your car, practice, tweak, practice.

good luck! Let me know what you decide.

wolfhobbies

Have you checked out Team Magic's New E4RS?

E4RS Main Features:
Most lipo battery & brushless motor can be used
New 2.5mm carbon fiber, 96mm wide narrow chassis
New 2mm carbon top deck
Front/rear 3mm carbon shock tower
Front ST steel universal drive shaft
Rear hard coated alum. 7075 universal drive shaft
Alum. 7075 turnbuckles
New Shocks
New thickened arms
New widened belts
Front solid axle
Rear ball differential (quick release design)
New lightweight nylon pulley
Alum. 7075 FF & RR hinge pin mount
Alum. 7075 bulkhead
New front lower Flying Wing arm
Centralized motor and battery design
Quick release main shaft
Motor cooling mount
Front/rear anti-roll bar

E4RS Main Spec:
1/10 EP Sedan
Width186mm adjustable
Length374mm
Wheelbase257~269mm
2.5mm carbon fiber chassis
2mm carbon fiber top chassis
3mm front/rear carbon shock tower
Drive ratio2.059
Main gear110T 64P
Caster block3 degree

Unique Super Low Friction 3 Belt Transmission:
-An unique design feature of the E4 is the introduction of a 3 belt transmission. It was chosen because of its advantages in motor, battery and radio gear placement. In a classic two belt transmission system, the front belt is centered down the chassis. This layout restricts the design of the car greatly and forces the manufacturer to compromise in componentry layout. The E4 is exactly the opposite which meant no compromises!

Ultra Low Center of Gravity.
-A fundamental consideration in manufacturing a high performance on-road touring car chassis is making sure the major components of the vehicle are placed as close to the ground as possible. This gives the car a low center of gravity for increased cornering speed and improved road holding capabilities. The E4 is a perfect illustration how this can be accomplished with creative precision.
-The motor and battery pack can account for almost 40% of the cars entire moving mass so it's critical they are given priority in positioning. The motor area of the E4 is machined away to lower the motor a total of two millimeters past the top of the main chassis plate. This may seem like a small gain, but with this design the motor is potentially just 1mm away from the ground. It would be impossible to get it any lower without placing it in undue risk from potential damage.
-The battery pack, which is inserted into the chassis from the bottom of the car, receives the same treatment as the motor. Held in place by an aluminum battery tray, the cells are just fractions of a millimeter from being flush with the bottom of the chassis, but at the same time, totally protected. The aluminum tray also aids in dispersing heat from the battery pack.
-With the battery being inserted from the bottom of the car, Team Magic's designers were able to lower the top-plate too. This in turn, meant the gearboxes, bulk heads, differentials and steering system were able to follow the same pattern. A low center of gravity chassis gone to the extreme.

Centralized Componentry For Perfect Side To Side Balance:
-With the belts out of the way, the designers got to work tweaking weight distribution so both sides of the car were equal. They focused on making sure the heaviest components, like the battery and motor were either centralized on the chassis or very close to it. After a few modifications, they achieved their goal and the E4 now has a perfect side to side balance. This gives the E4 another advantage through the corners by letting the car change direction much quicker. With all the weight placed in, toward the middle of the chassis the E4 also has a very neutral feel and there's less chance of the chassis rolling over. Now you can push the boundaries when it comes to corner speed like never before.
-As all the components moved inward, the main chassis plate began to shrink. This reduced the overall weight of the car, again, improving its performance.

Flying Wing Suspension Arms:
-An exclusive design from Team Magic is the Flying Wing Suspension arms found on the E4. This new manufacturing process allowed Team Magic to reduce the size of the suspension arms without sacrificing strength. A lightweight, hollow aluminum rod gives the suspension arm its potent strength and provided the E4 designers with an opportunity to remove or shape excess plastic from around each arm. Both options offer interesting benefits to improving the E4's performance.
-The removal of excess plastic helped to not only lower the chassis total weight but also meant the shocks didn't have to cope with additional loads. This improved the E4's acceleration and ability to cope with a bumpy track or surface.

-Next, Team Magic set about shaping the arm to serve two purposes; firstly the removal of any holes in the arm makes it much easier for cleaning and secondly, the shape of the arm was molded to help improve airflow. The airflow runs smoothly over the arm and this helps the E4 cut through the air, reducing its drag co-efficient dramatically.

Super Easy Maintenance
-The fun doesn't stop there though because the E4 is also an absolute charm to work on too! The design of the car incorporates quick and easy access to all of the high maintenance areas of any on-road touring car. Take for example, the front and rear differentials. Only four screws hold each differential securely in place. Undo these 4 screws and you now have the ability to lift the entire differential out of car with ease. Make some changes or give it a clean, then drop the diff back in, tighten up the 4 screws and you're ready to race again. Nothing could be easier.
-The same applies for the main layshaft which is also held in place by only 4 screws. Slide the belts off the pulleys and lift the entire layshaft out of the car. These quick maintenance features flow right throughout the entire E4 chassis. From the wheels up, the E4 is the ultimate user-friendly touring car on the market.

-The ultra low center of gravity combined with the center-mounted battery location minimizes roll and allows the car change direction like no other before it. Each component has been analyzed and redesigned to reduce static and rotational mass without compromising strength and reliability.

-New Shocks-New single O-ring shocks minimize drag for smoother more precise dampening.
-Speedo & Motor Vent Mount
-Ducted air intake for motor and ESC cooling. A cooler motor means more power, longer run time and longer magnet / motor life.
-ST Steel Front & Alum. 7075 Rear Universal Joint
-Redesigned CVDs are both light and strong . With the remove of blade cover on the shaft, CVD drive pins are fitted over in order to reduce friction and protect the outdrives from wear and backlash.
-Lightweight 34T Rear Pulley
-Rear pulleys have been lightened with trapezoidal holes to reduce weight and friction of the diff balls. This results in faster acceleration and smoother differential action.
-Now with Front Spool
-Front and rear outdrives have been lightened as much as possible without sacrificing durability.
-And Everything's About the Chassis
-2.5mm carbon fiber bottom chassis, 2mm top chassis and 3mm front and rear shock towers mean that your chassis is rock solid to hold your setup consistently from the start of the race to the checkered flag. As a bonus it is compatible with most LiPo batteries.

No detail has been overlooked to put you on top of the podium. The choice is simple. Get an E4RS or follow one.

You can find it at www.wolfhobbies.com

wolfhobbies

Oops! Accidentally posted a picture of the new E4JS which is more of an introductory car. Here is a picture of the E4RS.

jmcvicker

Go out to The Track at http://www.rctrack.com (which is near your location) and see what many of the drivers are running - my guess is either TC3/4/5 or Xray T2 models. You may want to go with something basic (but fun) like a carbon fiber TC3 or TC4 setup but for quality and raceability, the Xray T2 would be a great setup. Once you have the car - you then want to start going fast. You would want to get a Brushless ESC, like Novak GTB and then pick a motor that fits your needs. The "Turn" numbers below 10, such as 3.5, 4.5 and so on are the "fastest" but are also intended for really fast road driving or on-road racing. For starting out, try the 13.5 or 10.5 motors which would probably be fine for your first races and offer you the ability to get into club races where everyone else has similar motors. For "run what you brung" racing, then the lower digits would be your higher-speed choices.

Probably best to go to a track though - and ask around to see what is best for your needs. There are other vendors like Corally that has great stuff too. http://www.corallyusa.com/

FPV racer wilo

Losi and the X ray both do good club racing machines fast, reliable and you can get parts for them I have seen the HOT BODIES cyclone been raced the thing went like a jet if I was buying a new rc pro car that would be my choice.
A few people told me that the Tamiya TA05 is a good car the only problem is that Tamiya releases new cars all the time and discontinue their car parts very quickly the TB03 is about to hit hobby stores I wonder how long before the TA05 is no longer available for replacement parts.
good luck Brett.

rcluke

tamiya TA-05

yzfr191

My Feedback: (2)

The Schumacher Mi3 is very impressive in my opinion. Comes as a kit with almost all anodized aluminum and carbon fiber. The belt drive looks very smooth and efficient and you can run any 190mm body on it.

Here's a [link=http://www.racing-cars.com/main.asp?sitepages=mi3]link[/link]

Otherwise, I really like xray and although I've never tried they're touring cars, I've had some one they're minis and the quality is excellent as most people would agree.

Southern Cross

Thanks for all the help guys. That is awesome about the track in Gaithersburg near me. I used to go out there for airsoft...there was a field near there where we used to play. The outdoor track they have looks crazy. I spotted another one that looks to be a contender...the Kyosho TF-5. I've been looking hard at the Tamiyas but hearing about there discontinuing models and parts frequently is not good news. I noticed lots of discontinued stuff on their site while I was surfing. Kind of odd that they do that since some of their models are pushing 20 years old in some cases on the off-road side. I learned pretty quick about getting motors that were too hot. I haven't taken my XXX-T's brushless ESC off of 50%. It was near impossible to drive it without backflipping it with a wheelie. The very first run I took it soon saw my spankin new Spektrum SR3100's antennas burned off when it slid on its back for a good clip on the return trip...very first time man! Can't get a replacement for it until Aug either the bums!

How universal is the fit on touring car bodies. I've been having a hard time finding out what fits what. I know it sounds kind of cheesy but the lid is pretty important to me.

yzfr191

My Feedback: (2)

With lexan bodies, all you need to do is drill the holes for the body posts. Other than that you just need to get the right length which is usually 190 to 200mm. There is a large variety in either size so you can basically get any body style you are looking for.

mkoresh12

The tamiyas have pleny of aftermarket support as well as factory. Yes they change models frequently but many if not most of the parts are interchangable. The TB03 release will have no impact on the TA05. The TB03 is a mod of the TB02 shaft car. From the first post.
1. A car that will hit 50mph minimum: Not really many if any electrics that will do that out of the box. Your best bet is to get a kit and mod it. Are you planning on racing or just running in the parking lot? If your racing you probably won't be able to make use of that 50mph unless they have an open mod class. Set up the car for a class you intend to race. If your not racing then by all means go all out.
2. You can interchange almost any 190mm or 200mm body onto an electric car. So feel free to put an HPI, protoform, proline, or Tamiya body on whatever electric you buy.(you have to cut your own mounts anyway). Tamiyas have the most scale appearance of the bunch and are also pricier.
3. You can get aluminum parts and carbon fibre for almost any name brand car. Some come with the car, some you'll have to buy the extras. You'll see the difference in the initial cost.
4. Most name brand models have decent durability. But the faster you go the more likely your going to break something. Two weekends ago I was racing my car and bent the aluminum tie rods and the aluminum steering saver on my touring car.

I see you've mentioned Kyosho, its an excellent brand but parts seem hard to come by. Most hobby stores don't carry much for them. Similiar situation with Tamiya if your in the states but overall they seem to more Tamiya retailers than Kyosho. I have a Tamiya TA05 and I love it. It hangs right in there with the Xrays and TC5s at my track. If I can just learn to not turn in to early and quit hitting the inside corner I could win a few from them. Tamiya also has higher end cars like the TRF416.
So, I'd say go with what you like best but stick with the better brands, Tamiya, AE, Xray, Losi. With enough practice any can be great racers and properly set up should be able to reach the speeds you want.

Southern Cross

That was an awesome and very helpful post. Thanks again to everyone for the help. I've seen a lot of guys mention thye Xrays as a high end car. More than a few guys have mentioned hanging with the Xrays in races with "lesser" cars. I definitely plan on doing some racing...but of course I would like to redline it locally in my neighborhood. I have a nice stretch of perfectly smooth street that runs several blocks. I figure I'll learn more racing first so I'm going to go with a race rig first. I'm definitely going to buy a kit and build it how I want it...keeping the motor race tame. Good point about availability with Tamiya and Kyosho...you're definitely right...aside from plastic models and diecast...and kits like the Lunch Box I don't see much of their gear at the LHS near me. I'm going to fire up the LHS closest to me tomorrow. They race every Saturday and Thursday seems to be the day they all gather and chat about it. I'm going to check and see what they're running and ask the racers about my purchase...as covertly and possible of course...my LHS hasn't given me the best advice thus far as I'm sure you can imagine. I've made more than a few return trips to swap something out that was a no go for my kit based on what they told me. So far the thing I'm positive about with what I'm getting is I'm not going with one of the Tamiya TRF416...a little pricey for my first touring car purchase I think.

*EDIT*
Scratch that last bit...the pricing info I had on the Tamiyas was way off...in the $700-800 range but I'm finding quite a few at or below $500 which is around what I am looking to spend on my kit.

jmcvicker

LHS may or may not know the scoop on racing. My Hobbytown owners used to run a track but for every racing question, they go to the "guy" they have working there part-time for any questions. So, best to talk to real racers who know what's up. For bodies, electric cars tend to take 190mm bodies - so anything from the Parma, HPI, ProLine vendors would be the way to go. The DNA-2 body is a good choice. For on-road bashing, look at TC3s - they're older Associated road cars which are quite sturdy and would make good racers. Either the carbon fibre conversion or the stock plastic chassis are fine. TC4 also are nice, but for the money, a used TC3 with clean setup is a good one to go with. If you do want to build it from the kit - then you may need to buy newer models, like the TC5 or others noted in this thread.

From Baltimore, you're not too far from my local track - www.mushroombowl.com (in Kennett Sq, PA). Also, 301 Raceway is down below Washington, DC - a pretty nice place I hear (never been there).

mkoresh12

If you went to the Tamiya website then what you saw is about double what you'd pay for a kit. They advertise everything(and sell) at full retail unless they have a sale. If you search distributors like Tower and others you'll find them for much less. The TA05 on Tamiya says 286 or something like that, I paid 139.99. I've seen the 416 and TA05MS models for about 400-500, same price range as an xray. Tamiya is easier to get parts than Kyosho but you'll probably have to order most of it online. Not a big deal for me because the two local hobby stores mainly carrie off road stuff and rarely have anything but spurs and pinions in stock for on road. Hobby stores seem to support AE, HPI and Traxxas mostly(around here anyway). But hey, get whatever makes you happiest.

Southern Cross

I think I've got my heart set on getting a Tamiya. I've been building Tamiya models since I was a kid...and their models are the best I've built. I checked out an older Tamiya touring kit at the LHS today...and it looks like their attention to detail is applied to the RC world too. No luck speaking with the locals today. All off-road and heli junkies there today. I think I'm going to get one of the many TA-05 kits...if I choose to go the sensible route...being that its my first real tourer...but the tech junkie in me will probably win over and I'll go for one of the TRF415 or TRF416 kits. I've been digging trying to find out what differences are between the TRF kits. There are quite a few of them. The Marc Rheinhard edition looks like its a winner...well I guess it literally was a winner. I just need to find some good reviews on the various Tamiya kits to find out what the ins and outs are. Some of the TA-05 kits cost as much as the TRF kits. I'll keep you guys filled in to let you know your help is not going to waste! Thanks again.

TIGER76

Cant go wrong with the TRF kits m8 or the TB evo kits if your after shaft kit but for racing i would go with belt as its a lot smoother for racing etc,one thing to remember with the TRFs is they dont include wheels,body,tires etc and then u have to add electrics on top too.
the Marc Rheinhard edition is a great race kit tho

Southern Cross

The Tamiya TRF415 MSXX Marc Rheinhard 2007 Edition seems to be the premier kit in the TRF line. I've been having a hard time trying to determine what the "best" kit is. I've been going over the manuals for them but not having much luck. You would think that the TRF416 would be better than the TRF415...better by 1 at least! I read somewhere that the TRF416 was shaft driven but it sure as heck looks belt drive to me. So far all that I can figure out is that the MSXX MRE 2007 has better parts than the standard MSXX edition. I'm not sure about the MSX version...it is the most expensive of the TRF kits but I can't see any reason why. These are the kits I have it narrowed down to...

- TRF415 MSXX Marc Rheinhard Edition 2007
- TRF415 MSX
- TRF416 Chassis Kit

More than likely I'm going to go with the Rheinhard Edition but I figure I'll give it a week or so more of research/digging.

Looks like I stumbled upon exactly what I was looking for...

This site gives you the rundown on the differences between the TRF415 kits.

http://www.thard.co.uk/415/415info.html

They also have info on the TRF416.

http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25

The TRF416 is definitely the latest and greatest in the TRF line. However...it seems more geared toward indoor foma tire action...whereas the TRF415 MSXX MRE 07 seems to allow for some asphalt action as well. Since I plan on doing some street riding as well it looks like the final model TRF415 may be the winning ticket. I'll have to see if its safe to take the TRF416 onto the streets first.

magnat

My Mate races in Onroad 540 and stock and in the last 6 months he has had
Team Magic E4 and found that Although it has the Speed, Due to all the Belts it seemed to lack punch out of the corners, So would be suited more for Brushless
and Mod Classes rather then 540

The Schumacher Mi3 : Was a Well balanced car but still didn't seem to have the certain something to make it a real winner

and his Latest, which he favours is a Hotbodies Cyclone Andymoore Edition 2008.. Handles Brilliantly and when I saw it in Silvercan class up against a TC5, the Cyclone Seemed to corner flatter and had more punch out of the tighter corners...


Even the Robotronics Avid, which is a top Chassis, still seems to come 2nd place when up against the Cyclone Andymoores...

Southern Cross

Okay...I've been a surfing/researching bandit lately...and I finally made my mind...definitely going with the TRF416 Chassis Kit. I've hit a fairly large roadblock though...I'm having a heck of a time finding one in stock anywhere. Any of you guys have any good leads on where I can find one online stateside?

PS - What the heck are event-controlled tires!?

Calin666

I was just going to suggest a TA05, but you are already WAY ahead.
If you are having trouble finding a TRF416 kit, you could always try your LHS and see if they would be willing to special order it. Of course they will most likely charge more, so try it as a last resort.
modelsport.co.uk has them for about $630 or so.
YOU could also check the Tamiya USA site, and get a list of dealers.
Good luck!

mkoresh12

The 416 is the most recent release and isn't very old. Tamiya seems to like to ramp up production slowly which means each distributor only gets a few to start out with. They should become more available over the next few months. Also, they become available over in Europe, Asia region first. If your impatient you can probably get one from RCmart. They are in hong kong. The prices are usually cheaper but shipping is more wich usually evens it out for what you'd pay here.

jamiet2

i race toring cars down my local club maritime racing it is one of the biggest clubs int the uk and i use a tc4 but most people use xray t2s or corally rdx and tc5s few shumacher mi2s and mi3 i know one persom using a 416 and the bsginors use those crappy tt01s wich you cant adjust any thing on we are also brushless club mostly and the main choce is novak and speed pasion best speedo and lrp for best motor as for bodys the best is the dodge stratos or the mazda six speed these are developed and give extra down force and just for racing

Southern Cross

I found one at speedtechrc.com and ordered it. Cost $429 USD and should be here on Monday. They were very nice and had it shipped out the same day I ordered it. Now I just need to pick am ESC, motor, LiPo, pinion, and servo...already bought the receiver (SR3100) I'm going to use. I was going to go with the LRP Sphere Comp TC-Spec but I'm not sure about the forward only. Seems like it would drive me crazy not being able to use reverse. Any of you guys out there remember your first foward only ESC? Just wondering if I was worrying about nothing.

cheech4

i was going to say suggest the T2 008 Xray, its tearing up the racing scene with a whole bunch of wins, but good pick on the 416 its a sweet ride. truth of the matter is you can do just as well with any high end touring car. one really doesn't have that much advantage over others, its all driver IMO.

mkoresh12

The driver makes a huge difference. I had a standard TA05 kit and I'm the only one running a Tamiya. Everyone else is xray and TC5. I'm usually about 6-10 with any where from 10-25 cars racing. With a little more experience I hope to be consistently in the A main. Not too bad since I have the least expensive car in the field.